Player Signing Pats to sign Torry Holt

[patsinthesnow]

I'm very surprised by these comments. Tory Holt had great WR3 stats with the run first Jags. Holt is a very good 3rd receiver, hope he signs.

Do you guys want our 3rd WR to catch 100 balls or something? This is hilarious.

 

[lamafist]

Check my edit. I assigned them numbers based on Brady's checkdown system and the way it's been for a few years now. He'll go to Moss first, Edelman second, then Holt third (and whomever else is in the particular personnel package on the field during that time).

What are you talking about?

Brady doesn't make his reads in the same order every play. It depends entirely on the play called, and is position-specific, not player specific.

You don't change the progressions you've drilled all year for a certain play when a player gets subbed in and out.

 

[The Dynasty]

He played pretty well filling the #2 role when Welker was out. I think he can do it. He is no Welker, but he can be more than adequet at the position. I think his lack of experience isn't as big of a deal as you make it. The Pats won 11 games with a QB who hadn't started at that position since high school. Some players are able to pick up the position better than others. It comes down to intelligence and skills. That is why as a first year WR he picked up the system faster and far better than a decade plus veteran like Galloway.

Edelman did not pick up the system as well as you may think, there were numerous plays that he lined up the wrong position and had to be corrected or he ran the wrong route that Brady had expected. Yes he is a good player, but he is still developing. He cannot be counted on as the #2 WR (second most productive), whatever you want to say.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Edelman did not pick up the system as well as you may think, there were numerous plays that he lined up the wrong position and had to be corrected or he ran the wrong route that Brady had expected. Yes he is a good player, but he is still developing. He cannot be counted on as the #2 WR (second most productive), whatever you want to say.

And the fact that it will be a whole year later won't change his development as a WR at all. Especially as he came to us with so much experience at the position

Anyway . . . Welker. I think I'm the only one here who expects him back Week 1.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Edelman did not pick up the system as well as you may think, there were numerous plays that he lined up the wrong position and had to be corrected or he ran the wrong route that Brady had expected. Yes he is a good player, but he is still developing. He cannot be counted on as the #2 WR (second most productive), whatever you want to say.

You're correct about Edelperson's mistakes; however there is usually a huge improvement in a 2nd year player, especially one who got actual NFL playing time as a rook.

Nobody will play the slot as well as Welker did but Edes could be a decent fill in.

 

[TealSox]

Now draft Dez Bryant.... Moss and Holt can mentor him into being the next best thing to line up on the outside.

 

[The Dynasty]

The Patriots improved their #3 WR position by upgrading Aiken with Holt. What they havent addressed the is loss of Welker for how ever long that may be. Edelman can not replace Welker, he is just too young and inexperienced. Maybe in a few years he can be what Welker was, but not at this point. The Patriots still need to go out and get another WR that can be their #2 WR until Welker returns.

 

[Kontradiction]

What are you talking about?

Brady doesn't make his reads in the same order every play. It depends entirely on the play called, and is position-specific, not player specific.

You don't change the progressions you've drilled all year for a certain play when a player gets subbed in and out.

Are you really going to sit back and say that Brady's progressions didn't go from Moss first then to Welker (or Edelman when he was playing for Welker) and then to the WR3 spot (filled by Aiken last season)? Do you really believe that Brady went to Aiken first on any package of plays last season?

 

[Kontradiction]

The Patriots improved their #3 WR position by upgrading Aiken with Holt. What they havent addressed the is loss of Welker for how ever long that may be. Edelman can not replace Welker, he is just too young and inexperienced. Maybe in a few years he can be what Welker was, but not at this point. The Patriots still need to go out and get another WR that can be their #2 WR until Welker returns.

Welker is the best slot receiver in the NFL, by far. So what you're really saying is that the Patriots need to go out and find the second best slot receiver in the entire league and then sign him before you'll be comfortable with them?

 

[Sicilian]

The Patriots improved their #3 WR position by upgrading Aiken with Holt. What they havent addressed the is loss of Welker for how ever long that may be. Edelman can not replace Welker, he is just too young and inexperienced. Maybe in a few years he can be what Welker was, but not at this point. The Patriots still need to go out and get another WR that can be their #2 WR until Welker returns.

I disagree. They don't NEED to do that, it would be an unnecessary luxury. If they believe Welker will be back, Edelman can fill in adequately while he's gone.

Moss-Holt-Edelman (year 2) is better than Moss-Edelman (year 1)-Aiken, so they're already better than they were last year without Welker.

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

The Patriots improved their #3 WR position by upgrading Aiken with Holt. What they havent addressed the is loss of Welker for how ever long that may be. Edelman can not replace Welker, he is just too young and inexperienced. Maybe in a few years he can be what Welker was, but not at this point. The Patriots still need to go out and get another WR that can be their #2 WR until Welker returns.

They aren't going to get a top slot WR for a few weeks. Welker will be back. IMO Week 1 but almost certainly (barring a setback) after the 6 week PUP. They won't replace him, Edelman will do the best he can then Welker will be back.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Dynasty, if Wes Welker is a 9.5 out of 10,and say Edelman is an 8, why do we need to get another slot WR. Edelmans no Welker, but he'll be pretty good.

 

[lamafist]

Edelman did not pick up the system as well as you may think, there were numerous plays that he lined up the wrong position and had to be corrected or he ran the wrong route that Brady had expected. Yes he is a good player, but he is still developing. He cannot be counted on as the #2 WR (second most productive), whatever you want to say.

Edelman isn't just learning a new system, he's learning to play a new position.

The types of routes he can run and the types of catches he can make will still be pretty limited next season.

The types of passes that Welker would catch, like the drags, bubble screens, and snap hitches, where the plan was to get the ball in Wes' hands quickly, and see how many yards he can pick up after the catch, that's the kind of stuff that Edelman will excel at. And unlike Wes, he's got a 2nd gear if he finds daylight.

But Wes could also get open and make catches in tight coverage, and get off the line cleanly when pressed. That, and his ability to read defenses and make sight reads, is why he always seems able to come down with that drive-extending catch on 3rd down.

Edelman, as a former QB, should be able to read the defense, but it takes players who played receiver all through college a few years to get used to getting free at the line and positioning yourself to make catches in traffic in the NFL. Edelman has a ways to go on that front.

 

[The Dynasty]

Welker is the best slot receiver in the NFL, by far. So what you're really saying is that the Patriots need to go out and find the second best slot receiver in the entire league and then sign him before you'll be comfortable with them?

No, they need someone that can contribute close to what Welker did. That isnt easy obviously with Welker being at the top of the league in catches, but what would make me satisfied is getting someone Brady can count on to be there and make plays, doesnt even need to be a slot guy. They are still a very productive WR short IMO.

 

[Kontradiction]

No, they need someone that can contribute close to what Welker did. That isnt easy obviously with Welker being at the top of the league in catches, but what would make me satisfied is getting someone Brady can count on to be there and make plays, doesnt even need to be a slot guy. They are still a very productive WR short IMO.

Edelman, barring injury, will be that guy until Welker returns. Holt's route running is also excellent so he should be where Brady expects him to to be.

 

[The Dynasty]

They aren't going to get a top slot WR for a few weeks. Welker will be back. IMO Week 1 but almost certainly (barring a setback) after the 6 week PUP. They won't replace him, Edelman will do the best he can then Welker will be back.

Dont be counting on Welker being back week 1. He tore his ACL in late December, in most and almost all cases they take more than 8 months to fully heal.

 

[DarrylS]

This signing makes sense, great hands, great route runner.. will play opposite Moss and will be a "bridge player" for Brandon Tate and whatever WR we draft..

 

[WelshPat]

That episode was two weeks ago!

I'm from the UK and way behind

 

[BritPat]

On paper it's a decent signing, he clearly still can play after watching his efforts for the Jags last year when it was basically him, Sims-Walker and MJD trying to win games.

We still must address the WR position in the Draft though.

 

[lamafist]

Are you really going to sit back and say that Brady's progressions didn't go from Moss first then to Welker (or Edelman when he was playing for Welker) and then to the WR3 spot (filled by Aiken last season)? Do you really believe that Brady went to Aiken first on any package of plays last season?

No, I don't think the Pats ran many plays where the split end was the first read.

But that's one specific player in one specific position.

There are plenty of plays where the reads would go Flanker (Moss), Tight End (Watson), slot (Welker), or slot (Welker), HB (Faulk) TE (Watson) with Moss running a clear-out route to take two defenders deep.

As I said -- it's play specific, and position specific, more than player specific.