Are you happy with Patriots' front office approach this offseason

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

I posted my thoughts on another thread but it is appropriate to adapt them on this thread today.

Give the NY Jets and Miami their due: They know what they want and they are not afraid to go out and get it......at a REASONABLE price relative to the RISK.

Not too long ago, you could say that of the Patriots (witness the Moss and Welker trade). No longer.

The Patriots mistakes of last season are haunting Patriot management. Their free agent foray of last year netted Galloway and Baker (one didn't last the season and the other was dumped this off season) and they traded valuable draft picks for mediocre talents like Lewis (from the Iggles) and Burgess from Oakland Raiders (for a third and fifth draft picks this year). Compounding these errors in talent evaluation was the lack of locker room cohesion, largely blamed on Adalius Thomas (a 07 free agent whose signing was much acclaimed at that time) and unnamed others.

Having been bitten by their past off season mistakes, they are now too shy -- too vary of making ANY risky moves no matter how low the price.

Team management and ownership seem frozen -- unable or unwilling to undertake the kind of prior signature moves that paid great dividends in the past (witness Dillon or Moss). This off season alone, the Patriots could have signed Stallworth (for near the league minimum) -- but did not. They could have traded for and signed Boldin, by all accounts a good team member, for a reasonable price -- but did not. (Yes, I know they did not have a third round draft choice to offer the Cardinals but could easily have worked out something acceptable). They could have traded for Holmes -- but did not. (Again the third and fifth pick given up for Burgess turns out to have a very high opportunity cost) Yes they deserve credit for signing their own free agents but that simply preserves the status quo team of last year. Where is the improvement? The Pats don't even seem to be involved with Jason Taylor -- who is an unrestricted free agent and one whom they openly admired. And Marshall for two second-rounders over two years seems like a reasonable price. Of course, the 4 year extension at an average of $ 10 million a year would have made him the highest paid receiver on the team -- but would have assured the Pats one of the best receivers in the league long after Moss is gone.

I know part of the answer will be from the 12 picks -- four in the first two rounds -- in what is believed to be a deep draft. NY Jets now have only six picks total and two in the first two rounds. But arguably they have banked a lot of talent in Holmes and Cromartie. Last year they hit homeruns with free agents and they are willing to dare. But they are not rash -- they are taking on calculated and acceptable risk -- at a risk adjusted price they deem affordable. Indeed, if the epic length of this thread is any indication, Patriot Nation seems to have taken notice of the intelligent moves made by the Jets. Neutral observers are lauding the Jets for their moves. By any definition getting a talent like Holmes for a fifth draft choice is only possible because he is a troubled talent. But that did not stop the Patriots in the past?

What should concern us is not any specific signing by the Jets or the Dolphins or any other team. What should concern Pat Fans is the evident pattern this off season of a complete LACK of willingness on the part of Patriot management in doing anything in adding through free agents. Banking on the draft is itself not without risk. This inability or unwillingness to engage is a cause for concern. As is also the management's ability to evaluate talent available through free agency or through trades.

Finally, you have to wonder whether the team's paradigm of not willing to give a long term contract to players imported via trade, a la Moss who got a new contract only after playing out his old contract. Welker was the one exception. So long as the team maintains this policy, it essentially takes itself out of contention for the Boldins and Marshalls of the world. The all-purpose answer to all team questions is the draft. By choosing not to participate in free agency, all we can do is wait and see.

The thing is though, the team has made efforts to bring people in. They made an offer to Julius Peppers. The Bears offering more doesn't mean we didn't try. We wanted Boldin and wanted him to finish his 1 year contract. He and Marshall are in the same situation. It's not that the team is unwilling to give out big contracts to free agents. As Mike Reiss pointed out after we didn't get Boldin, signing a free agent WR to a big contract is a touchy situation when you've got Wes Welker due to make $1.8 million this season. Coming off an ACL tear or not, that's something that might not sit well with players on this team, let alone Welker himself.

I won't lie. I come home every day hoping to see that we signed someone or traded for someone. It doesn't mean we haven't tried. Not hearing about it isn't proof that nothing has happened. In 2003, a lot of us were frustrated that they hadn't brought in Colvin for a visit. By the time we even heard that he was in town, he was pretty much signed. Really, it seemed that quick. (and the board went down right before I saw that he had signed and stayed down for days )

I don't believe the Patriots are looking to add 12 draft picks and get ready for training camp. Things will still happen. We could still see trades. In the respective years they were picked up, at this point in the offseason, we didn't have Randy Moss, Corey Dillon or Ted Washington. It's been mentioned before that the available free agents later this offseason should be better than in recent years because right now there's no rush to cut veterans. There's no cap to get under. Teams can wait until after the draft to make sure they've picked up a replacement.

Again, we're not done. The team didn't just sign that punter to be the cherry on top of the offseason cake.

 

[Ring 6]

Yet people want to throw out players after a year or two and gamble on unknowns in the draft, who the same people will want to throw out in a year. lather rinse repeat.

Then, what's going to cure us is not a core of veterans maturing and learning together, but a thug of the month club of underachieving all night partiers who can't even figure out how many kids they have, where they live and by whom they were birthed. To this random club of rogues we're supposed to entrust our future tight execution and locker room chemistry?

Adalius Thomas was a Saint compared to this group, yet when we sought him as an outside veteran to be the guiding force to help turn over our linebacking corps, it was a disaster, causing us to have to start over with only one outstanding talent at that position now.

Leadership comes from within, playmakers develop by playing together and knowing the assignments. Rodney Harrison's and Vrabels are the exception, not the rule, FA pickups are a crap shoot attitude wise. Teams are built from within and high character FA's outperform and out value hot shots IMO.

Good post.
I keep asking---every time this topic comes up---for someone to give me the examples of teams that won by sigining big name, big money FAs. I've yet to get an answer.
BTW, Vrabel didn't show up as a leader he developed into one here. For all intents and purposes, its almost as if we drafted him, because his career was formed as a Pat.
I think it would be a TREMENDOUS and enlightening exercise for someone to assess SB winners (or even teams that grew from losers or medicore to winners) and compare the year before they won to the year they did win, and assess why. My guess is that improvement of players already on their roster is at or near the #1 factor. I would bet above average (compared to the league) contributions from rookies would be up there. I think that "Free Agents signed in the first week of FA"(or a better means of defining high priced) would be very low on the list.

 

[DW Toys]

Im unhappy for the long a** waiting for the draft to come and go. Thinking about how our offseason went is a waste of time. Probably Coach Belichick thought the same, which is why he didnt pick up any big time vet FAs (except Crumpler). So the draft is our way out, hope we get a good one too!

Great! That will fill our 13 holes Cousin! I'm with you. Can't wait to get all of those 12 kids to start in 2010 and show these wise guys on this forum that the F.O. really HASN'T been on vacation as it appears.
Just because we lack talent doesn't mean the SB isn't ours.
Let's gettum in hear to camp asap.
DW Toys

 

[jmt57]

Re: Are you happy with Patriots Front Office approach this Off Season

Our team has been in a three year rut with no signs of digging itself out. It is time for new blood top to bottom.

Wow, talk about a spoiled fan. The Patriots have more wins than all but one other NFL team during that time period; if they're in a rut, what are those thirty other teams in? I can't even imagine what you'd classify those teams that have won less games in those three years combined than the Pats won last year in one season.

Hey, I would have liked to have seen them pull the trigger on Boldin and offered him a multi-year contract in order to land him, but I suppose I can see why they didn't. Marshall for $12 million per year plus two 2nds is probably not worth it once the salary cap returns. Holmes for a one-year rental in exchange for a 5th might have been worth it, but given that he'll miss four games and the team is trying to improve chemistry in the locker room I can understand passing on him. I'm not shedding any tears over Cromartie or Tomlinson. I wouldn't have minded seeing the Pats sign someone like Washington or Randle El to at least fill in at WR4 and maybe step up and compete to start wide opposite Moss, but again that's no big loss.

This year is different from other offseasons because there's so many fewer free agents. Due to the rules in the uncapped year over 200 players like Mankins are not free agents, which means there are fewer free agents worth signing.

 

[DW Toys]

I posted my thoughts on another thread but it is appropriate to adapt them on this thread today.

Give the NY Jets and Miami their due: They know what they want and they are not afraid to go out and get it......at a REASONABLE price relative to the RISK.

Not too long ago, you could say that of the Patriots (witness the Moss and Welker trade). No longer.

The Patriots mistakes of last season are haunting Patriot management. Their free agent foray of last year netted Galloway and Baker (one didn't last the season and the other was dumped this off season) and they traded valuable draft picks for mediocre talents like Lewis (from the Iggles) and Burgess from Oakland Raiders (for a third and fifth draft picks this year). Compounding these errors in talent evaluation was the lack of locker room cohesion, largely blamed on Adalius Thomas (a 07 free agent whose signing was much acclaimed at that time) and unnamed others.

Having been bitten by their past off season mistakes, they are now too shy -- too vary of making ANY risky moves no matter how low the price.

Team management and ownership seem frozen -- unable or unwilling to undertake the kind of prior signature moves that paid great dividends in the past (witness Dillon or Moss). This off season alone, the Patriots could have signed Stallworth (for near the league minimum) -- but did not. They could have traded for and signed Boldin, by all accounts a good team member, for a reasonable price -- but did not. (Yes, I know they did not have a third round draft choice to offer the Cardinals but could easily have worked out something acceptable). They could have traded for Holmes -- but did not. (Again the third and fifth pick given up for Burgess turns out to have a very high opportunity cost) Yes they deserve credit for signing their own free agents but that simply preserves the status quo team of last year. Where is the improvement? The Pats don't even seem to be involved with Jason Taylor -- who is an unrestricted free agent and one whom they openly admired. And Marshall for two second-rounders over two years seems like a reasonable price. Of course, the 4 year extension at an average of $ 10 million a year would have made him the highest paid receiver on the team -- but would have assured the Pats one of the best receivers in the league long after Moss is gone.

I know part of the answer will be from the 12 picks -- four in the first two rounds -- in what is believed to be a deep draft. NY Jets now have only six picks total and two in the first two rounds. But arguably they have banked a lot of talent in Holmes and Cromartie. Last year they hit homeruns with free agents and they are willing to dare. But they are not rash -- they are taking on calculated and acceptable risk -- at a risk adjusted price they deem affordable. Indeed, if the epic length of this thread is any indication, Patriot Nation seems to have taken notice of the intelligent moves made by the Jets. Neutral observers are lauding the Jets for their moves. By any definition getting a talent like Holmes for a fifth draft choice is only possible because he is a troubled talent. But that did not stop the Patriots in the past?

What should concern us is not any specific signing by the Jets or the Dolphins or any other team. What should concern Pat Fans is the evident pattern this off season of a complete LACK of willingness on the part of Patriot management in doing anything in adding through free agents. Banking on the draft is itself not without risk. This inability or unwillingness to engage is a cause for concern. As is also the management's ability to evaluate talent available through free agency or through trades.

Finally, you have to wonder whether the team's paradigm of not willing to give a long term contract to players imported via trade, a la Moss who got a new contract only after playing out his old contract. Welker was the one exception. So long as the team maintains this policy, it essentially takes itself out of contention for the Boldins and Marshalls of the world. The all-purpose answer to all team questions is the draft. By choosing not to participate in free agency, all we can do is wait and see.

Decent post and mostly correct IMO. BB is gun shy right now (AD, Galloway etc.). Some of these moves made by our competitors were no brainers a couple years ago. There is only one way that he should rely on the Draft alone and the 18% success rate that we can expect....within three years! and that is we are Rebuilding. This is what I am reading into this. We have mid NFL talent in most of our players. We don't have a strong core. If BB is counting on 12 "wins" in the Draft, he validates my theory.
Hell, let's bust it up and set ourselves up for a great 2013 (when most of these 2010 Draft choices will "ripen"). We appreciate what you have done for the Pats fans the last ten years and we are spoiled, but just don't BS us Pats FO.
I say let's continue adding these "valuable" 21 year old kids and increase our changes of some Draft success.
It had to end. Now is the time to Trade last year contract guys like Light (one of my all time Pats favorites). Maroney if someone will give us anything for him at all and Moss now rather than wait. Let's clear out the aged Morris, Springs and Taylor. Patten will be a camp cut anyway. Kopen should be a consideration as well as Kcazur.
If we are going to rebuild lets not pretend we turned our noses up at some of this talent, and break it up and really rebuild.
DW Toys

 

[RayClay]

BTW, Vrabel didn't show up as a leader he developed into one here. For all intents and purposes, its almost as if we drafted him, because his career was formed as a Pat.

Good point. Rodney was a rare quantity, an emotional leader who stepped right in. I threw Vrabel in there and it diluted my point. Of course 2001 showed how going for character over flash can surprise you. Pleasant Phifer Hamilton Compton and others weren't exactly sought after, but the sure delivered quiet leadership and dedication.

I was going to chime in on your post about Dillon and Moss, so I guess i will. People! when you acquire hundreds of players and two are questionable, that is not a majority.

BB is probably more averse to head cases and problem children than any coach I've seen. He doesn't want to waste time with fools.

Of course he's careful and interviewed and researched both players extensively. He decided that, regardless of any issues, they were great talents who were focused on football, and that's what he cares about.

 

[patsfan-1982]

im not sure im happy yet. ill let you know if im happy after the draft. but i got no problem with the way the front office has went this year.



they have locked up the new core of the defense for the next few years i would have loved to sign cory redding, the ravens beat the pats to that one



the fact that they did not sign or trade for marshall, boldin, peppers. or dansby, im ok with. other then boldin all dose guys got a whole lot of money.



give me a pass rushing OLB some D line dept a #3 WR and a back up TE in the draft and ill be happy

 

[PatsFanStnfrd]

im not sure im happy yet. ill let you know if im happy after the draft. but i got no problem with the way the front office has went this year.



they have locked up the new core of the defense for the next few years i would have loved to sign cory redding, the ravens beat the pats to that one



the fact that they did not sign or trade for marshall, boldin, peppers. or dansby, im ok with. other then boldin all dose guys got a whole lot of money.


give me a pass rushing OLB some D line dept a #3 WR and a back up TE in the draft and ill be happy

You sure are easy to please.

 

[patsfan-1982]

You sure are easy to please.

will we don't have a choice. all the top FA's are gone most if not all the big trades have been made all redy i can sit ther and cry about all day or hope for the best.


so i just hope for the best.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Too early to give a final grade.

I'm pleased that they were able to lock up the key guys.

At this point, everything else is in incomplete IMO.

 

[DarrylS]

Good point. Rodney was a rare quantity, an emotional leader who stepped right in. I threw Vrabel in there and it diluted my point. Of course 2001 showed how going for character over flash can surprise you. Pleasant Phifer Hamilton Compton and others weren't exactly sought after, but the sure delivered quiet leadership and dedication.

I was going to chime in on your post about Dillon and Moss, so I guess i will. People! when you acquire hundreds of players and two are questionable, that is not a majority.

BB is probably more averse to head cases and problem children than any coach I've seen. He doesn't want to waste time with fools.

Of course he's careful and interviewed and researched both players extensively. He decided that, regardless of any issues, they were great talents who were focused on football, and that's what he cares about.

Well said, last year was somewhat of an anomaly the anticipated leadership did not develop, and negative forces emerged, to bring in cast off players to this clubhouse may have an adverse effect. We had 9 rookies make this team last year, and even though many are considered "B" players, they have had a year to develop.

This years draft is critical, personally have mucho confidence in Reese/Caserio and BB... in reality we have a young team.

 

[RayClay]

Well said, last year was somewhat of an anomaly the anticipated leadership did not develop, and negative forces emerged, to bring in cast off players to this clubhouse may have an adverse effect. We had 9 rookies make this team last year, and even though many are considered "B" players, they have had a year to develop.

This years draft is critical, personally have mucho confidence in Reese/Caserio and BB... in reality we have a young team.

You have to turn the team around sometime. I love the young secondary. I think this Damione Lewis will help there. Of course I'm hoping for some top talent and wise rebuilding with affordable players in that front seven. I've been critical of the linebacker corps, so I have my fingers crossed there.

I don't think the Seymour deal could have been passed up, He can't be directly replaced, but we can still get the job done at the position while saving a lot of dough, a potential contract nightmare and Al's #1 next year to boot. Those are the deals you have to make to keep building IMO.

 

[DarrylS]

You have to turn the team around sometime. I love the young secondary. I think this Damione Lewis will help there. Of course I'm hoping for some top talent and wise rebuilding with affordable players in that front seven. I've been critical of the linebacker corps, so I have my fingers crossed there.

I don't think the Seymour deal could have been passed up, He can't be directly replaced, but we can still get the job done at the position while saving a lot of dough, a potential contract nightmare and Al's #1 next year to boot. Those are the deals you have to make to keep building IMO.

This year we have 4 of the top 54 picks( in what is considered a very deep draft)..next year we have 3 in the top 63... that is an incredible amount of capitol.. and on paper seems incredibly well thought out.

 

[RayClay]

This year we have 4 of the top 54 picks( in what is considered a very deep draft)..next year we have 3 in the top 63... that is a lot of money in the bank.. and on paper seems incredibly well thought out.

Absolutely. Now when we get to our last pick in round two after picking three tight ends in a row....:bricks:

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

Absolutely. Now when we get to our last pick in round two after picking three tight ends in a row....:bricks:

Thats not even funny. Ive been having nightmares about BB picking all TEs, and no LBs......:bricks:

 

[vyrago]

I vote for #5-Draft Spel Czech before you post another poll.

ditto! (ten characters)

 

[Don_the_patfan]

I posted my thoughts on another thread but it is appropriate to adapt them on this thread today.

Give the NY Jets and Miami their due: They know what they want and they are not afraid to go out and get it......at a REASONABLE price relative to the RISK.

Not too long ago, you could say that of the Patriots (witness the Moss and Welker trade). No longer.

The Patriots mistakes of last season are haunting Patriot management. Their free agent foray of last year netted Galloway and Baker (one didn't last the season and the other was dumped this off season) and they traded valuable draft picks for mediocre talents like Lewis (from the Iggles) and Burgess from Oakland Raiders (for a third and fifth draft picks this year). Compounding these errors in talent evaluation was the lack of locker room cohesion, largely blamed on Adalius Thomas (a 07 free agent whose signing was much acclaimed at that time) and unnamed others.

Having been bitten by their past off season mistakes, they are now too shy -- too vary of making ANY risky moves no matter how low the price.

Team management and ownership seem frozen -- unable or unwilling to undertake the kind of prior signature moves that paid great dividends in the past (witness Dillon or Moss). This off season alone, the Patriots could have signed Stallworth (for near the league minimum) -- but did not. They could have traded for and signed Boldin, by all accounts a good team member, for a reasonable price -- but did not. (Yes, I know they did not have a third round draft choice to offer the Cardinals but could easily have worked out something acceptable). They could have traded for Holmes -- but did not. (Again the third and fifth pick given up for Burgess turns out to have a very high opportunity cost) Yes they deserve credit for signing their own free agents but that simply preserves the status quo team of last year. Where is the improvement? The Pats don't even seem to be involved with Jason Taylor -- who is an unrestricted free agent and one whom they openly admired. And Marshall for two second-rounders over two years seems like a reasonable price. Of course, the 4 year extension at an average of $ 10 million a year would have made him the highest paid receiver on the team -- but would have assured the Pats one of the best receivers in the league long after Moss is gone.

I know part of the answer will be from the 12 picks -- four in the first two rounds -- in what is believed to be a deep draft. NY Jets now have only six picks total and two in the first two rounds. But arguably they have banked a lot of talent in Holmes and Cromartie. Last year they hit homeruns with free agents and they are willing to dare. But they are not rash -- they are taking on calculated and acceptable risk -- at a risk adjusted price they deem affordable. Indeed, if the epic length of this thread is any indication, Patriot Nation seems to have taken notice of the intelligent moves made by the Jets. Neutral observers are lauding the Jets for their moves. By any definition getting a talent like Holmes for a fifth draft choice is only possible because he is a troubled talent. But that did not stop the Patriots in the past?

What should concern us is not any specific signing by the Jets or the Dolphins or any other team. What should concern Pat Fans is the evident pattern this off season of a complete LACK of willingness on the part of Patriot management in doing anything in adding through free agents. Banking on the draft is itself not without risk. This inability or unwillingness to engage is a cause for concern. As is also the management's ability to evaluate talent available through free agency or through trades.

Finally, you have to wonder whether the team's paradigm of not willing to give a long term contract to players imported via trade, a la Moss who got a new contract only after playing out his old contract. Welker was the one exception. So long as the team maintains this policy, it essentially takes itself out of contention for the Boldins and Marshalls of the world. The all-purpose answer to all team questions is the draft. By choosing not to participate in free agency, all we can do is wait and see.

Post of the month.

P.S. And for those who say we tried with Boldin the Pats knew full well that he was not going to play out his contract since he has been wanting a new contract for what 2 years now. So that was a 'we tried but not really'. More like a PR move.

 

[blackglass3]

Re: Are you happy with Patriots Front Office approach this Off Season

Our team has been in a three year rut with no signs of digging itself out. It is time for new blood top to bottom. We have a "4th and 1" go for it Head Coach; no real coordinators and all around average talent.

You have got to be the absolute worst poster on this site. Every post you put up is stupider than the last, and you never have the sack to actually state what your basis is for your ridiculous gutter spew. This site, and most likely the entire internet, would be much better off if the data line that runs into your house was cut.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Post of the month.

P.S. And for those who say we tried with Boldin the Pats knew full well that he was not going to play out his contract since he has been wanting a new contract for what 2 years now. So that was a 'we tried but not really'. More like a PR move.

We're talking about Bill Belichick. You really think he did that to simply to fire up the fans or something? That's going to be a tough sell.

 

[ausbacker]

Thats not even funny. Ive been having nightmares about BB picking all TEs, and no LBs......:bricks:

Hey.. the Patriots have played linebackers as productive tight ends.. why not try the reversal and play tight ends as linebackers and see what happens .