Could somebody please explain the Carrington love?

[dryheat44]

The man is a very tall and lanky 280 pounds with ultra-short arms. He doesn't have elite quickness or agility. He dominated a very low level of competition.

If he had better agility, you might be able to sell me on possibly converting him to an elephant linebacker, but he doesn't. He's a square peg in the round hole that is the 3-4 defense, by any criteria. He's not known for run defense, and offensive linemen are going to get into his chest and bury him time and time again.

So why do so many want to spend a 2nd round pick on him? If you want to draft him, pack on 15 more pounds and hope that it doesn't hinder his agility that he's known for. Fine, let's use a sixth round pick on a pet project.

 

[Coach42]

The man is a very tall and lanky 280 pounds with ultra-short arms. He doesn't have elite quickness or agility. He dominated a very low level of competition.

If he had better agility, you might be able to sell me on possibly converting him to an elephant linebacker, but he doesn't. He's a square peg in the round hole that is the 3-4 defense, by any criteria. He's not known for run defense, and offensive linemen are going to get into his chest and bury him time and time again.

So why do so many want to spend a 2nd round pick on him? If you want to draft him, pack on 15 more pounds and hope that it doesn't hinder his agility that he's known for. Fine, let's use a sixth round pick on a pet project.

Yeah I can explain it. This is the time of the year in which every prospect has been examined, over examined, re examined, and then looked at again. I personally believe when you have too much time to make a decision you can talk yourself into anything, including horrible decisions. So while we have plenty of legit candidates for the defense you start looking "sleepers" and other players that might be able to help that are not obvious. Then you get the Carringtons of the world, or Sewards, or Gilberts happens to the best of us.

 

[Seneschal2]

So why do so many want to spend a 2nd round pick on him? If you want to draft him, pack on 15 more pounds and hope that it doesn't hinder his agility that he's known for. Fine, let's use a sixth round pick on a pet project.

Where's this "love" you're talking about? And whose the 6th round pick?

 

[dryheat44]

Where's this "love" you're talking about? And whose the 6th round pick?

The love is all over this board. A common manifestation of which is "I don't want to spend a first on Odrick. I'd much rather take (player x) and get Carrington in the second."

He's off my board as a non-fit, but the sixth is the earliest I could justify taking a shot at him. Obviously, if the draftniks are correct, he'll be long gone.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Exactly how I feel about Carrington. I have no idea why so many people like him. He'll be a good 43 LDE for someone, but he's not a 34 fit at all.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The man is a very tall and lanky 280 pounds with ultra-short arms. He doesn't have elite quickness or agility. He dominated a very low level of competition.

If he had better agility, you might be able to sell me on possibly converting him to an elephant linebacker, but he doesn't. He's a square peg in the round hole that is the 3-4 defense, by any criteria. He's not known for run defense, and offensive linemen are going to get into his chest and bury him time and time again.

So why do so many want to spend a 2nd round pick on him? If you want to draft him, pack on 15 more pounds and hope that it doesn't hinder his agility that he's known for. Fine, let's use a sixth round pick on a pet project.

In a word, ubber strong. Single handedly whipped the right side of the Alabama O line earlier this year. He actually forced Saban to change the offensive game plan and move Peek over to help Davis.

Oh and did I mention he is extremely strong.

That being said however, BB has not drafted many 280 DE's for this defense.

So I agree with you 100%, give me a developmental DE prospect on day three. Three come to mind. Deaderick or Washington from Alabama, both have 3-4 experience.

And Kade Weston from Georgia. Stuck on the bench behind Atkins and Owens may have left a bad taste in his mouth and soured his attitude a good bit. However if he wants to prove the Georgia coaches wrong for giving him all those splinters, how better to do it than by making a ton of plays for the Patriots in TC!

 

[mgteich]

Please list the 3-4 DE guys that you would draft in the first four rounds.

I have five

Odrick (willing to trade up into the teens if necessary)
Alualu (one of our seconds)
Carrington (53 through mid-third)
Joseph 3rd
Lane 4th

The man is a very tall and lanky 280 pounds with ultra-short arms. He doesn't have elite quickness or agility. He dominated a very low level of competition.

If he had better agility, you might be able to sell me on possibly converting him to an elephant linebacker, but he doesn't. He's a square peg in the round hole that is the 3-4 defense, by any criteria. He's not known for run defense, and offensive linemen are going to get into his chest and bury him time and time again.

So why do so many want to spend a 2nd round pick on him? If you want to draft him, pack on 15 more pounds and hope that it doesn't hinder his agility that he's known for. Fine, let's use a sixth round pick on a pet project.

 

[dryheat44]

Please list the 3-4 DE guys that you would draft in the first four rounds.

I have five

Odrick (willing to trade up into the teens if necessary)
Alualu (one of our seconds)
Carrington (53 through mid-third)
Joseph 3rd
Lane 4th

In order:

Suh
McCoy
Arthur Jones
Odrick
Vince Oghobaase*
Brandon Deaderick*
Al Woods*
Clifton Geathers*
Alualu*

The first two are pipe dreams.
The next two I'd be targeting.
The next five I would only consider if we missed out on both Jones and Odrick and they represented the best value at that spot.

Summary: I'd be planning to get out of the second round with one of Jones or Odrick. If not, I'd get one of the others before the end of the fourth.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

In order:

Suh
McCoy
Arthur Jones
Odrick
Vince Oghobaase*
Brandon Deaderick*
Al Woods*
Clifton Geathers*
Alualu*

The first two are pipe dreams.
The next two I'd be targeting.
The next five I would only consider if we missed out on both Jones and Odrick and they represented the best value at that spot.

Summary: I'd be planning to get out of the second round with one of Jones or Odrick. If not, I'd get one of the others before the end of the fourth.

I have strictly seen McCoy referred to as a 4-3 penetrating DT. Do you expect/want the Pats to go 4-3 or do you personally see McCoy translating well to 3-4 DE (and is so, why)?

 

[dryheat44]

I have strictly seen McCoy referred to as a 4-3 penetrating DT. Do you expect/want the Pats to go 4-3 or do you personally see McCoy translating well to 3-4 DE (and is so, why)?

There's no reason at all McCoy couldn't play 3-4 end. It's not what he did at OU, and maybe you're taking away one of his strengths (pass rush), but he certainly has the size and the athleticism and is a good enough football player to do it. He'd be a 3-4 end in the base package and move inside on 4-3 fronts or obvious passing situations.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

There's no reason at all McCoy couldn't play 3-4 end. It's not what he did at OU, and maybe you're taking away one of his strengths (pass rush), but he certainly has the size and the athleticism and is a good enough football player to do it. He'd be a 3-4 end in the base package and move inside on 4-3 fronts or obvious passing situations.

That's what I'm saying though, he would play DE in the base and move inside in the 4-3 or obvious passing situations, but how do you know he can successfully play 3-4 DE in the base? He's never really two-gapped and some scouting reports have had him as a liability against the run who lacks ideal bulk/strength to play 3-4 DE. I'm just curious why you think he'd be successful in that role, considering scouts have doubted his ability to play it. I'm not arguing against you, because I really don't know if he can or can't. I only saw him play a handful of times, and he was a great 4-3 penetrator, but I don't have a good feel for if he could/couldn't become a great 3-4 DE.

 

[dryheat44]

That's what I'm saying though, he would play DE in the base and move inside in the 4-3 or obvious passing situations, but how do you know he can successfully play 3-4 DE in the base? He's never really two-gapped and some scouting reports have had him as a liability against the run who lacks ideal bulk/strength to play 3-4 DE. I'm just curious why you think he'd be successful in that role, considering scouts have doubted his ability to play it. I'm not arguing against you, because I really don't know if he can or can't. I only saw him play a handful of times, and he was a great 4-3 penetrator, but I don't have a good feel for if he could/couldn't become a great 3-4 DE.

Well, almost nobody in the NCAA has played 3-4 end. I guess I just take it on faith that if the player is an outstanding football player as McCoy is, and he has the right frame (6-4, 295) and athletic ability, that he can be taught.

I could absolutely be wrong. But without being able to work him out or do extensive film study, I'll give him (and others) the benefit of the doubt unless I see a good reason why he couldn't.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

Well, almost nobody in the NCAA has played 3-4 end. I guess I just take it on faith that if the player is an outstanding football player as McCoy is, and he has the right frame (6-4, 295) and athletic ability, that he can be taught.

I could absolutely be wrong. But without being able to work him out or do extensive film study, I'll give him (and others) the benefit of the doubt unless I see a good reason why he couldn't.

Sounds reasonable. I know you've been an avid fan of Derrick Morgan, and I like him a lot too. Who are your other favorites at DE/OLB and what other needs do you see needing to be addressed early in the draft?

 

[Marqui]

Yeah, I'm not huge on Carrington either. I prefer Wooton or take a later round flyer on someone like Geathers/Weston/Woods.

 

[PATSNUTme]

OK, let me try to explain.

Two girls are walking down the street laughing and talking. Two guys are standing on the corner studying and checking the girls out. The guys have not talked to the girls and don't know much about them.

Guy #1 rates girl #2 as 9.1 and girl #1 as 4.6. Guy #2 rates girl #1 as 8.5 and girl #2 as 6.8.

This is pretty much what draftniks and draft guru's do. It's fun, but it's all in the eye of the beholder.

Hope this helps explain it.

 

[Snake Eyes]

The man is a very tall and lanky 280 pounds with ultra-short arms. He doesn't have elite quickness or agility. He dominated a very low level of competition.

If he had better agility, you might be able to sell me on possibly converting him to an elephant linebacker, but he doesn't. He's a square peg in the round hole that is the 3-4 defense, by any criteria. He's not known for run defense, and offensive linemen are going to get into his chest and bury him time and time again.

So why do so many want to spend a 2nd round pick on him? If you want to draft him, pack on 15 more pounds and hope that it doesn't hinder his agility that he's known for. Fine, let's use a sixth round pick on a pet project.

I would not describe him as lanky, he's got plenty of muscle on him and can kick butt, that's the reason for the love.

Also, his arms are 33 1/4 inches long, I wouldn't call that ultra-short either. If he were to play as a defensive end in Seymour's position he doesn't need great agility, he just needs explosive power to beat up the O-line, which he did quite well at the Senior bowl.

He might not have faced elite competition while at Arkansas but did he have great players on his team commanding attention? If the rest of the Arkansas teams is weak one can plan around Carrington.

Also, while he could have gone to other big names schools to help his career he decided to go to Arkansas to raise his son, I like that kind of character.

I see him and Odrick as similar players but Carrington is a lot less expensive, so if we were going to use that #22 on Odrick I'd much rather pick up a bunch of other picks to fill in other holes than to pay a premium for Odrick.

 

[Nonentity]

There's a few potential 3-4 DEs in the 2nd round and Alex Carrington has the easiest name to remember. Simple as that.


Players like Tyson Alualu, Corey Wooton and Al Woods will hopefully be available as well and might be better fits, but I'll be damned if I can spell Alualu without checking it every single time I write it

 

[TriplecHamp]

Id rather spend a second rounder on him than a first rounder on Odrick.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

Yeah, I'm not huge on Carrington either. I prefer Wooton or take a later round flyer on someone like Geathers/Weston/Woods.

OK, I don't quite understand?

Carrington in 285lbs and strong as an ox and is known for his ability to hold the point and drive his man into the backfield.

Wooten is 270lb and is known for his quickness and agility for such a tall guy.

But you prefer Wooten to play a 2-gap 3-4 DE. When in 2012? After 2 years of Woicik's strength and weight program.

 

[Warren94]

Carrington doesn't fit. Woods from LSU does..Odrick.. name the last penn state defensive player who has done anything in the past decade..


Sorry so grumpy.