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Nolan Nawrocki on Patriots, Pat White, and Armanti Edwards

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ctpatsfan77

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From a mailbag on PFW:

Mr. Nawrocki,

What are your thoughts around the Patriots investing their 4th-round pick in Armanti Edwards? I know you predict him to go late in the third round, so probably unlikely unless they draft him in the 2nd or drop down into the 3rd. Seems like he might be a good fit for them, though.

— Russ Clark

It was widely thought in league circles that the Patriots were very interested in Pat White a year ago. Yet, much to their delight, I believe, he wound up landing in the division, where he was relegated to the bench, saw very little action and wound up getting injured when he had an opportunity to play. I do not see him ever bringing value as a receiver or return man, as I think Edwards will. Edwards has embraced the opportunity to contribute in other phases of the game and showed promise in receiving drills at his pro day, unlike White, who evaluators said had one of the worst receiver positional workouts they had ever seen.

From a versatility perspective, the Patriots should be very intrigued by Edwards. They have an excellent coaching staff that develops talent as well as any team in the league and showed last year that it could quickly groom converted QB Julian Edelman into a slot receiver. I would not rule out the possibility that Edwards develops into an Antwaan Randle El type of weapon. Edwards' lack of size and injury history remain concerns that could affect his draft status and potentially allow him to slip to the Patriots in the fourth round, but it's difficult to believe he would escape the third, where the Patriots currently do not have a pick, and it's even remotely possible that he fits into the second round.

If they were truly interested in landing him, they would likely have to use their final second-round pick (53rd overall) or wisely manipulate their position, as they have done so well under Bill Belichick, by trading back into the third round and acquiring additional picks.

It almost feels like Nawrocki's trying to have it both ways here: if they didn't use Edelman at all at QB last year, why would they use Edwards there this year? [Come to think of it, why does Edwards have third-round value if Edelman was basically expected to be an UDFA? And didn't Nick Caserio say they drafted Edelman specifically for his potential "with the ball in his hands," not as a passer?]
 
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Come to think of it, why does Edwards have third-round value if Edelman was basically expected to be an UDFA?

Dumb as it may sound, I think Edelman was dramatically downgraded as a receiver by the fact that he was a lousy quarterback.

When you have a super-athletic QB who wins games and makes headlines but doesn't have an NFL arm/stature, everybody starts looking for alternate positions for him. Edelman had all of the drive and athleticism of the top conversion projects, but had a losing record as a QB so he ended up a bargain at WR. :confused2:
 
Dumb as it may sound, I think Edelman was dramatically downgraded as a receiver by the fact that he was a lousy quarterback.

When you have a super-athletic QB who wins games and makes headlines but doesn't have an NFL arm/stature, everybody starts looking for alternate positions for him. Edelman had all of the drive and athleticism of the top conversion projects, but had a losing record as a QB so he ended up a bargain at WR. :confused2:

He was also a top-flight return man, so there was some idea that he had some open-field playmaking skills to work with.

The QB conversion this year that I really, really, like is Joe Webb. I think he's got the immense talent and drive to be a #1 WR in a couple or three years.
 
The QB conversion this year that I really, really, like is Joe Webb. I think he's got the immense talent and drive to be a #1 WR in a couple or three years.

I totally agree. There are a lot of appealing WRs in the middle rounds of this draft, but mostly of the quick & little variety (Emmanuel Sanders, Andre Roberts). Webb is one of the few big guys who really intrigue me.
 
No thanks. Most of his production was a result of his team being way better than the competition. Edwards isn't a good thrower and is a long-strider as a runner...which isn't a bad thing if you are Randy Moss but doesn't translate well if you are 5'11" and 180.
 
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Take edwards in the 2nd round? What? How does it make sense to take a reach project ahead of great WRs? What is so special about this guy?

He's kind of like Edelmen...yeah who was taken in the 7th round, not 2nd!

If this guy is taken in the top 4 rounds, I'd be very surprised. Narwocki should give a public condemnation of himself if he's not drafted at all or not until the 7th. 2nd round. Idiot.
 
I totally agree. There are a lot of appealing WRs in the middle rounds of this draft, but mostly of the quick & little variety (Emmanuel Sanders, Andre Roberts). Webb is one of the few big guys who really intrigue me.

Here's the other thing, though: is it really clear that they want a QB-to-WR conversion project?

Yes, they got a home run (or at least a triple) with Edelman, but they originally signed Stanback to the PS to be a scout team QB, not a WR. [It wasn't until Galloway crashed and burned and Edelman was injured that they promoted Stanback and put him at WR.]
 
He was also a top-flight return man, so there was some idea that he had some open-field playmaking skills to work with.

But if the Pats are committed to Tate being the return guy, where does Edwards figure in? Not as a slot WR, we have one and a half of them already.

He is too small to play the X or Z.

3rd down RB maybe? Faulk replacement?
 
But if the Pats are committed to Tate being the return guy, where does Edwards figure in? Not as a slot WR, we have one and a half of them already.

He is too small to play the X or Z.

3rd down RB maybe? Faulk replacement?

He was 5'11, 192 at the combine. I wouldn't rule him out playing the flanker. I suppose one would draft him as a depth WR with some upside. To me, he's fourth-round value at best, and that would only happen if Belichick goes defense with his first four picks and totally ignores WR and all the other ones in that neighborhood are gone already.
 
He was 5'11, 192 at the combine. I wouldn't rule him out playing the flanker. I suppose one would draft him as a depth WR with some upside. To me, he's fourth-round value at best, and that would only happen if Belichick goes defense with his first four picks and totally ignores WR and all the other ones in that neighborhood are gone already.

I stand corrected, He could be a developmental X receiver. I thought he was only about 5'8" or so. Actually I thought he was smaller than McCluster.

But do you really think BB is using all four 1st and 2nd round picks?????
 
I stand corrected, He could be a developmental X receiver. I thought he was only about 5'8" or so. Actually I thought he was smaller than McCluster.

But do you really think BB is using all four 1st and 2nd round picks?????

I think he'll use the first three. The fourth will probably depend on who's on the board. I could see that being traded for a #3/4 and a #2 next year if he's not in love with somebody.

I think he pushed those picks into this year for a reason, knowing how deep the quality is.
 
I think he'll use the first three. The fourth will probably depend on who's on the board. I could see that being traded for a #3/4 and a #2 next year if he's not in love with somebody.

I think he pushed those picks into this year for a reason, knowing how deep the quality is.

From a pure quality talent stand point, #44 and #47 this year are probably going to be equal to two 1st rounders in the last quarter of the first round next year.
Drafting in the last quarter of the first round next year, will yield a player of similar quality to a second rounder this year.

So from a present value talent standpoint (comparing 2011 draft vs. the 2010 draft), we currently have a 1st round pick (Oakland's assuming it is in the top 15 ) and 2 second round pick's (Our 1st and 2nd) in the 2011 draft.

So if BB does deal a second this year, unless he gets a 1st rounder within the top 15 to 20 picks of 2011, all he is really doing from a present value talent point of view is flipping a second rounder in 2010 for a second round talent (taken in the first round) in 2011, plus whatever change he can secure for the pick in the 2010 draft.

In summary: If ever there was a draft for BB to use all his bullets, this is that draft.
 
From a pure quality talent stand point, #44 and #47 this year are probably going to be equal to two 1st rounders in the last quarter of the first round next year.
Drafting in the last quarter of the first round next year, will yield a player of similar quality to a second rounder this year.

So from a present value talent standpoint (comparing 2011 draft vs. the 2010 draft), we currently have a 1st round pick (Oakland's assuming it is in the top 15 ) and 2 second round pick's (Our 1st and 2nd) in the 2011 draft.

So if BB does deal a second this year, unless he gets a 1st rounder within the top 15 to 20 picks of 2011, all he is really doing from a present value talent point of view is flipping a second rounder in 2010 for a second round talent (taken in the first round) in 2011, plus whatever change he can secure for the pick in the 2010 draft.

In summary: If ever there was a draft for BB to use all his bullets, this is that draft.

OTOH, though, BB received offers for #23 last year that would have involved trading that pick into this year's draft, and specifically turned those down. Given that they already had three second-rounders, why did he specifically refuse to trade out of the first or second round last year?
 
Dumb as it may sound, I think Edelman was dramatically downgraded as a receiver by the fact that he was a lousy quarterback.

Then what the heck does it say that (A) he beat out the incumbent QB just after transferring to Kent State, and (B) Doug Martin built Kent State's offense around Edelman, because they wanted him involved on every play? :confused2:
 
Then what the heck does it say that (A) he beat out the incumbent QB just after transferring to Kent State, and (B) Doug Martin built Kent State's offense around Edelman, because they wanted him involved on every play? :confused2:

OK, let me put it this way -- he was a natural leader and a terrific athlete, but had a 13-19 record and ran almost as often as he passed. In a program with more QB talent, he probably would have switched positions much sooner.

I didn't mean it as a slam on Edelman to say he was was a lousy QB prospect. Becoming a 3-year starter at QB given his size and arm is an incredible testament to his drive and football acumen.
 
In summary: If ever there was a draft for BB to use all his bullets, this is that draft.

Amen, and Hallelujah.

All I want for Bill to do with our top 4 picks, is to execute a couple of slight trade-downs to re-acquire a 3rd + a 5th this year, not for a 2nd-rounder in a much weaker draft next year.

Damn the Burgess & Alex Smith trades.
 
OTOH, though, BB received offers for #23 last year that would have involved trading that pick into this year's draft, and specifically turned those down. Given that they already had three second-rounders, why did he specifically refuse to trade out of the first or second round last year?

Can you recall those offers a little more specifically? That might be the first I've heard about them.
 
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