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OT: Jets going after Jason Taylor HARD

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IMO, it would be a bad move if we picked up Taylor. We need to upgrade the OLB position through the draft.
 
Sanchez has proven nothing, so if he's a "Staple" that just as well could bite them in the *****.
 
If for some reason JT does decide he wants to be a Jet then I would assume AD is all but out of thier plans.

NO WAY is Tenenbaum paying for 2 vet rushers who are aging quickly and/or lacking former skills
 
I only would accept having Taylor if it meant seeing much less of Woods out there
 
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Can't they do both?

They can, but I wouldn't recommend it. Taylor is running on fumes, if even that. He would be a waste of a signing for what he would (wouldn't) be able to do for us. We'd be in the same exact position at OLB next year as we are right now if we sign him. If we're going to make a play for a Miami OLB, I would much prefer Cameron Wake. Let the bald dinosaur end his career elsewhere.
 
Greene... I can keep going. All are staples in the franchise.

Jones was servicable and reliable, nothing more
This is exactly what MLR talks about when he says the Jets are gong in circles.

Jones, a perennial 1000 yard rusher who ran for 1400 yards last year and the ONLY reason the Jets weren't about 4-12 (the games they won were the ones they DIDN"T rely on Sanchez) is suddenly serviceable and greene, a rookie who showed potential and may or may not pan out is suddenly a staple of the franchise? Yeah a staple of the Jests franchise, where dreams are built on sweet spring-time air and blow away in the cool fall winds.

If you kept Jones, you would be bragging how HE is the battering ram of the franchise. Greene may or may not do anything. Washington is simply a lesser Kevin Faulk , quicker but less productive and injury prone.

Two teams don't lay down for you and you are 7-9 last year. You got hot in the playhoffs, and that's cool. It's the best time to get hot. But don't confuse a two-game hot streak with a solid team.

I recall at the start of last year, Ryan was talking about 19-0 after winning two games. I suppose you're here to do the same.

Some day you will repeat 1969, when you had your last success. But it won't be in 2010.
 
IMO, it would be a bad move if we picked up Taylor. We need to upgrade the OLB position through the draft.

We definitely need to upgrade OLB in the draft and hopefully get something out of Crable.

I think adding only Taylor at OLB would be a mistake given our great need for young OLB, but adding Taylor as a situational/rotational OLB would be a good move. He's had a very successful career, and would be a great guy for the young OLB's to study under.

I liked Burgess but he didn't live up to my expectations. I wouldn't mind seeing him back. I wouldn't mind seeing Taylor added either. Every year we get bit by the injury bug, so might as well stock up, build some depth, and be prepared.

The situation in 07 was ideal IMO. I loved that deep rotation that helped keep guys fresh. Vrabel, AD, Seau, Bruschi, Colvin. I would love for us to be able to have a deep rotation like that again, and I think Taylor could be a good add as a rotational OLB.
 
We definitely need to upgrade OLB in the draft and hopefully get something out of Crable.

I think adding only Taylor at OLB would be a mistake given our great need for young OLB, but adding Taylor as a situational/rotational OLB would be a good move. He's had a very successful career, and would be a great guy for the young OLB's to study under.

I liked Burgess but he didn't live up to my expectations. I wouldn't mind seeing him back. I wouldn't mind seeing Taylor added either. Every year we get bit by the injury bug, so might as well stock up, build some depth, and be prepared.

The situation in 07 was ideal IMO. I loved that deep rotation that helped keep guys fresh. Vrabel, AD, Seau, Bruschi, Colvin. I would love for us to be able to have a deep rotation like that again, and I think Taylor could be a good add as a rotational OLB.

Trust me, I don't think Taylor would live up to your expectations either. Career-wise, the guy has done MUCH better with his hand on the ground than when he's stood up. Last year he looked like he had very little left in the tank, outside of one game. I used to love Taylor (even though he played for the Phins) and hoped he would one day come to New England, but that day has long since passed. When I watched Taylor last year, I saw a guy on his last legs. That is exactly what the Pats DON'T need.
 
Since the thread is already hijacked, what's the point of having a million draft picks if your GM can't draft to save his life. The Patriots have made some draft decisions the last 3 or 4 years that, at the time, seemed like the right move and it's okay if this happens once every four years but lately the trend has become a bit disturbing. Go ahead, mention Vernon Gholston. Leave out, Revis, Harris, Washington, Sanchez, Keller, Brick, Mangold, Smith, Greene... I can keep going. All are staples in the franchise.

Sanchez was not an NFL caliber QB last season. If that's already a 'staple', you're team is screwed.

Washington is a 3rd down back coming off of a bad injury, and pissed off that he's been jerked about financially. Good luck with that 'staple'. The Jets have one year to make nice with him, or that will become a fun issue for the rest of the league to follow next year.

Brick is a disappointment of a player who's soft, and can't get it done without a guard the quality of Faneca next to him. When Faneca goes, Brick will once again be D'Bustashaw.

Greene is a 3 game wonder. Good luck with that.

Revis and Mangold are excellent players. Keller and Harris? Neither are anything special.
 
When did Dustin Keller become an awesome TE/great draft pick? FFS, Ben Watson's better, and look at the crap that got heaped on him around here. He has five career TDs, and caught as many *total* last season as Watson did in week 1. If he was a Daniel Graham-esque blocker, then the Jets fans who are throwing parades for him would be only mildly delusional, but he's not. He's athletic, and that's about it.

As for everything else... yeah, Deus summed it up pretty much perfectly, no need to repeat it.

Revis, Harris, Mangold, and probably Greene were all very good picks.
Brick has underperformed his draft position: quality player, but not a data point that you want to cite if you're talking about how awesome the Jets are at drafting. It doesn't take a genius to turn the #4 overall pick into a solid starter
Sanchez has yet to do give any indication that he's good enough to be an NFL QB
Washington is talented but never contributed in any meaningful way to a contender and is in all likelihood gone
Brad Smith is a pretty decent KR. Reasonable fourth round pick, decent value, but once again, every GM in the league has made plenty of picks like this. If Belichick had drafted him, the geniuses around here would have slapped the bust label on him 3 years ago.

All in all? Yeah, the Jets have drafted pretty well over the last five years. Revis was a great pick, which might almost make up for the fact that they turned two 2008 first-rounders into Dustin Keller and Vernon Gholston. Not to mention the 2nd rounder spent on Kellen Clemens.

Harris is a good player, and Greene could very well end up being excellent. Sanchez might rebound from an objectively terrible rookie year and become a QB worthy of a top-5 pick, although history suggests that this is unlikely. Mangold and Brick have lived up to their draft positions, and Keller might eventually become decent, although once again the past 2 years aren't doing him any favors. Seriously, let's not rewrite history here.
 
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If JTaylor goes to the Jets, he'd be a 2-faced loser...

Last year, he said it was "between Miami and NewEngland"...

One would think that he has talked with NewEngland, after Miami said no, this year...

Now he's interested in the Jets?

Loser..
 
I think Taylor COULD help sell PSL's. What Reiss takes away from the article is that the Pats ARE pursuing Taylor again. I think that would be ok, as long as no-one ever assumes he solves our problems. We need another Vrabel pretty badly.

Vrabel has exactly (4) sacks in his last 29 regular season games. But if you mean a young Vrabel, then I agree.
 
Not sure where you are figuring this out. Kindle played OLB and DE at Texas.

On the field he has been great, but he has multiple off the field incidents. I'm not sure BB replaces one troubled LB ( A Thomas ) with another.
 
IMO, it would be a bad move if we picked up Taylor. We need to upgrade the OLB position through the draft.


I agree, but its very hard to do. C. Mathews and Orakpo were hits last year, but there was another half dozen OLB's who completely busted in the first two rounds.

Its like Vernon Gholston. Had 14 sacks in the Big Ten senior year. Runs a 4.58 at the combine, benches 225 LBs, 37 times ! He had a solid Wonderlic score, and is 6'3" 266 lbs. Seems can't miss but has zero sacks total in two seasons. The position is extremely hard to project, probably why BB never takes a pass rusher high in the draft.
 
Eh, did a quick breakdown to try to better explain my position on this whole "The Jets are awesome at drafting" position. It's not an outright lie, but it's not the truth, either.

First round: Brick, Revis, Gholston, Keller, Sanchez. We'll go ahead and call Brick a hit, sure. Revis is a home run, Gholston sucks, and the jury's still out on Keller and Sanchez. 2 for 3 is alright, but when 3 of those picks were in the top 6, it's at best decent. Ideally, in a four-year span you want at least 3 sure contributors, but because Revis is so good and Sanchez might turn into a good player, I'll say that the Jets have done a reasonable job here.

Second round: David Harris, Kellen Clemens. 1 for 2: yes, to repeat, out of four years of second round picks, the Jets have received exactly one serviceable player. That's absolutely terrible, and the conveniently-ignored downside of their trade-up philosophy. Everyone complains about the Pats' second round success rate, but at least they know enough to stockpile the picks so that even if you're only hitting on a third of them, you're still replenishing your team's talent level. And watch out, one good draft under this philosophy and your team can be set for years to come.

Third Round: Anthony Schlegel, Eric Smith, Shonn Greene. Let's go ahead and call Greene a hit, and Smith too while we're at it. Once again, in the third round of the draft they've acquired two serviceable players in 4 years. Which means that, from 2006-2009, the Jets have acquired three legitimate football players from rounds two and three. That's just not good, at all.

Fourth Round Lowery, Washington, Smith. I don't expect much from 4th rounders (I consider Wilhite a hit for the Pats, after all), so let's go ahead and consider them all hits. Good thing, too, because it helps to make up for their second and third-round woes.

For better or worse, that's pretty much what the Jets' philosophy amounts to: they're not going to get many picks, so they'd better nail the ones that they have. To Tannenbaum's credit, they've been pretty good in that respect, although the team has gradually taken on the same identity as the draft philosophy: top-heavy; lose one guy that you were counting on to contribute, and there's no way to replace that production.

So yeah, people can talk about all of the Pats' misses all they want, but the Pats' philosophy is built to withstand those misses. The Pats can afford to whiff on a Wheatley or a Chad Jackson here or there, because for every second round selection that the Jets have made since 2006, they've made 3. And with 3 second-round picks coming up, that disparity isn't getting any smaller.

And yeah, even with a philosophy that's predicated on putting the team in draft positions where it can't miss, the Jets still do. That's a simple reality: that some draft picks won't pan out. Whereas the Pats have built a philosophy that works around that reality, I'm not sure that the Jets have. If the Jets actually had some more picks, maybe they could afford to get no production out of a #5 overall pick and subpar production out of a #30 overall pick. But they don't.
 
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Eh, did a quick breakdown to try to better explain my position on this whole "The Jets are awesome at drafting" position. It's not an outright lie, but it's not the truth, either.

First round: Brick, Revis, Gholston, Keller, Sanchez. We'll go ahead and call Brick a hit, sure. Revis is a home run, Gholston sucks, and the jury's still out on Keller and Sanchez. 2 for 3 is alright, but when 3 of those picks were in the top 6, it's at best decent. Ideally, in a four-year span you want at least 3 sure contributors, but because Revis is so good and Sanchez might turn into a good player, I'll say that the Jets have done a reasonable job here.

Second round: David Harris, Kellen Clemens. 1 for 2: yes, to repeat, out of four years of second round picks, the Jets have received exactly one serviceable player. That's absolutely terrible, and the conveniently-ignored downside of their trade-up philosophy. Everyone complains about the Pats' second round success rate, but at least they know enough to stockpile the picks so that even if you're only hitting on a third of them, you're still replenishing your team's talent level. And watch out, one good draft under this philosophy and your team can be set for years to come.

Third Round: Anthony Schlegel, Eric Smith, Shonn Greene. Let's go ahead and call Greene a hit, and Smith too while we're at it. Once again, in the third round of the draft they've acquired two serviceable players in 4 years. Which means that, from 2006-2009, the Jets have acquired three legitimate football players from rounds two and three. That's just not good, at all.

Fourth Round Lowery, Washington, Smith. I don't expect much from 4th rounders (I consider Wilhite a hit for the Pats, after all), so let's go ahead and consider them all hits. Good thing, too, because it helps to make up for their second and third-round woes.

For better or worse, that's pretty much what the Jets' philosophy amounts to: they're not going to get many picks, so they'd better nail the ones that they have. To Tannenbaum's credit, they've been pretty good in that respect, although the team has gradually taken on the same identity as the draft philosophy: top-heavy; lose one guy that you were counting on to contribute, and there's no way to replace that production.

So yeah, people can talk about all of the Pats' misses all they want, but the Pats' philosophy is built to withstand those misses. The Pats can afford to whiff on a Wheatley or a Chad Jackson here or there, because for every second round selection that the Jets have made since 2006, they've made 3. And with 3 second-round picks coming up, that disparity isn't getting any smaller.

And yeah, even with a philosophy that's predicated on putting the team in draft positions where it can't miss, the Jets still do. That's a simple reality: that some draft picks won't pan out. Whereas the Pats have built a philosophy that works around that reality, I'm not sure that the Jets have. If the Jets actually had some more picks, maybe they could afford to get no production out of a #5 overall pick and subpar production out of a #30 overall pick. But they don't.


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Excellent, very well reasoned post.

The one part you left out was what the Jets did with those missing picks, and there ability to move around in the draft.

I am talking about trading 2nd rounders with the Bears for T Jones, trading for Jenkins, Edwards, moving up for Revis, just saying the Jets did OK with there strategy of giving up picks in trades etc. IMHO.
 
Come on people be serious here and stop hijacking the thread into Jets drafting.

The jets also sucked for a while in the end Herm Edwards stage and begining Mangini stage.

THUS drafting young players were going to contribute far more then any players we were going to draft. Its simple logic the Jets have more holes thus more draft players would have an opportunity to make those spots.

The Patriots had far less holes and took way WAY to many gamble projects to pan out in hopefully the future but instead failed.
 
Eh, did a quick breakdown to try to better explain my position on this whole "The Jets are awesome at drafting" position. It's not an outright lie, but it's not the truth, either.

First round: Brick, Revis, Gholston, Keller, Sanchez. We'll go ahead and call Brick a hit, sure. Revis is a home run, Gholston sucks, and the jury's still out on Keller and Sanchez. 2 for 3 is alright, but when 3 of those picks were in the top 6, it's at best decent. Ideally, in a four-year span you want at least 3 sure contributors, but because Revis is so good and Sanchez might turn into a good player, I'll say that the Jets have done a reasonable job here.

Second round: David Harris, Kellen Clemens. 1 for 2: yes, to repeat, out of four years of second round picks, the Jets have received exactly one serviceable player. That's absolutely terrible, and the conveniently-ignored downside of their trade-up philosophy. Everyone complains about the Pats' second round success rate, but at least they know enough to stockpile the picks so that even if you're only hitting on a third of them, you're still replenishing your team's talent level. And watch out, one good draft under this philosophy and your team can be set for years to come.

Third Round: Anthony Schlegel, Eric Smith, Shonn Greene. Let's go ahead and call Greene a hit, and Smith too while we're at it. Once again, in the third round of the draft they've acquired two serviceable players in 4 years. Which means that, from 2006-2009, the Jets have acquired three legitimate football players from rounds two and three. That's just not good, at all.

Fourth Round Lowery, Washington, Smith. I don't expect much from 4th rounders (I consider Wilhite a hit for the Pats, after all), so let's go ahead and consider them all hits. Good thing, too, because it helps to make up for their second and third-round woes.

For better or worse, that's pretty much what the Jets' philosophy amounts to: they're not going to get many picks, so they'd better nail the ones that they have. To Tannenbaum's credit, they've been pretty good in that respect, although the team has gradually taken on the same identity as the draft philosophy: top-heavy; lose one guy that you were counting on to contribute, and there's no way to replace that production.

So yeah, people can talk about all of the Pats' misses all they want, but the Pats' philosophy is built to withstand those misses. The Pats can afford to whiff on a Wheatley or a Chad Jackson here or there, because for every second round selection that the Jets have made since 2006, they've made 3. And with 3 second-round picks coming up, that disparity isn't getting any smaller.

And yeah, even with a philosophy that's predicated on putting the team in draft positions where it can't miss, the Jets still do. That's a simple reality: that some draft picks won't pan out. Whereas the Pats have built a philosophy that works around that reality, I'm not sure that the Jets have. If the Jets actually had some more picks, maybe they could afford to get no production out of a #5 overall pick and subpar production out of a #30 overall pick. But they don't.

Oh please give me a break. If anything the Pats have proven that having 12 picks every year doesn't help if your horrible at drafting.

When your competing at a high level every year because you have Tom Brady you need to continue to put good players around him. I understand that your coach loves the value of the 2nd round and he's right that the best value at the cheapest price is in the 2nd round. The problem is that he's done a horrible job of drafting in the 2nd round.

Outside of Ferguson and Sanchez the Pats could have traded up for any of the studs the Jets got in the last four years. They could have moved up to get Revis, taken Harris or Mangold.

The bottom line is that in the last four years the Jets have drafted Ferguson, Mangold, Eric Smith, Leon Washington, Brad Smith, Revis, Harris, Keller, Sanchez and Greene.

Regardless of where they were drafted, the Jets since Tannenbaum was named GM have done a far superior job drafting then the Pats.

And the fact that the Pats have probably had about twice as many picks over the four years only makes Belicheck look worse.

Both teams have traded picks for players and received good value.

The bottom line is that Belicheck seems more concerned with not spending a lot of money on draft pcks and accumulating as many picks as possible rather then getting the most talented players.
 
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