Player to Tebow: "Shut the f--k up."

[Kontradiction]

Wow. I would think that if you didn't want to pray, simply not bowing your head and joining the other players who WERE praying would suffice. I can see that this is going to turn into a very interesting thread.

 

[ausbacker]

Fresh on the heels of the article suggesting the Florio piece is a load of toss, here is my response anyway.

I am saying that everyone should be free to express their own religious beliefs. If people are atheists, thats fine, they should not have to participate. But someone who says, "shut the f up", and giggles, to someone trying to express their religious beliefs? Not my kind of guy.

I disagree. Tebow can express his religious beliefs himself. There's no need to try and include others. The response might be childish but the initial position is unwarranted. Tebow could have done it himself quietly.

Tebow is a young kid who's still putting together experience to go along with his life's philosophy, and Dawkins is one of the bigger idiots on the planet. What would be interesting about that?

Dawkins would crush Tebow in a "God" debate. He's not a tosser because he doesn't agree with the religious establishment. That's a disappointing comment Deus Irae.

Personally I am one of those conflicting opinion types Dawkins describes. I believe in a higher power but the evidence for evolution is undeniable. I'm not looking at it from one is right or wrong.

 

[resdubwhite]

and Dawkins is one of the bigger idiots on the planet. What would be interesting about that?

Why? Because he wrote the God delusion? So because he doesn't believe he's an idiot.

Please answer yes or no. I'm not interested in a philisophical or religious debate. Just wondering why he's an idiot?

 

[VJCPatriot]

You can't force your religious beliefs down other people's throats. That's why there is a freedom of religion clause in the US Constitution. Yeah maybe the response to Tebow's request used unnecessarily vulgar language, but the guy who said it had every right to do so.

 

[DW Toys]

I don't understand what the fuss is about. Would it've been more acceptable to say "praise Allah" before the exam? People are itching to get on Tebow about anything...I kinda hope he does become a Patriot.

Excellent!
If they did not want to hear him pray there was no gun to their head. Unfortunately it's cool today to make fun of a guy with strong Christian religious beliefs (or any Jewish etc). The idiot who said that probably got a 6 on his test.

If someone in the room said Praise Allah I could have just ignored it or in the case of terrible mental distress, leave the room.

I certainly am not the best person in the whole world and have many faults but it take balls to run your life like Tebow in this cynical world. More balls than it takes someone to crack STFU when he was trying to make a difference, not impress them. He doesn't need to. His resume is not that bad.

He was trying to be a leader in the best way he lives his life. If someone wants to pray for you or with you in a time that was important for their future success (all of them), you could gracefully turn it down, but I feel sorry for anyone who would make fun of someone who is a decent and moral person and honestly felt he could help another person in a critical time.

It's always great to use the phrase, "I don't want to be involved with all of those hypocrites"....well there is always room for one more.

The mistake people make is thinking people who truly live the life of Christianity (Judaism etc.)the best that they can, think those people are professing they are better than everyone else. Hey there maybe some, but perhaps he prays and tries to help others because he is trying to be a better man.

Cut this kid a break. He's real. He tries to be good. I don't care who the Mr. Shut... .... Up was, he would not be on my Team.

That Mr STFU would be the first one in a foxhole begging for his ass to be saved when the big one is bearing down on him, crying like a b.....
DW Toys

 

[upstater1]

Wow. I would think that if you didn't want to pray, simply not bowing your head and joining the other players who WERE praying would suffice. I can see that this is going to turn into a very interesting thread.

I can see praying before a football game. That makes sense. People are going to throw their bodies around. By all means do it.

Here we have a gathering of people getting ready to sit down and take an exam.

 

[upstater1]

Excellent!
If they did not want to hear him pray there was no gun to their head. Unfortunately it's cool today to make fun of a guy with strong Christian religious beliefs (or any Jewish etc). The idiot who said that probably got a 6 on his test.

If someone in the room said Praise Allah I could have just ignored it or in the case of terrible mental distress, leave the room.

I certainly am not the best person in the whole world and have many faults but it take balls to run your life like Tebow in this cynical world. More balls than it takes someone to crack (Please be quiet - edited) when he was trying to make a difference, not impress them. He doesn't need to. His resume is not that bad.

He was trying to be a leader in the best way he lives his life. If someone wants to pray for you or with you in a time that was important for their future success (all of them), you could gracefully turn it down, but I feel sorry for anyone who would make fun of someone who is a decent and moral person and honestly felt he could help another person in a critical time.

It's always great to use the phrase, "I don't want to be involved with all of those hypocrites"....well there is always room for one more.

The mistake people make is thinking people who truly live the life of Christianity (Judaism etc.)the best that they can, think those people are professing they are better than everyone else. Hey there maybe some, but perhaps he prays and tries to help others because he is trying to be a better man.

Cut this kid a break. He's real. He tries to be good. I don't care who the Mr. Shut... .... Up was, he would not be on my Team.

That Mr (Please be quiet - edited) would be the first one in a foxhole begging for his ass to be saved when the big one is bearing down on him, crying like a b.....
DW Toys

Pat Tillman was an atheist. He was pretty brave.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Tebow is a young kid who's still putting together experience to go along with his life's philosophy, and Dawkins is one of the bigger idiots on the planet. What would be interesting about that?

Dawkins may be a smarmy jackass, but he's not an idiot.

As for what happened, I don't really care. It's true that Tebow's going to take some crap if he keeps trying to force his beliefs on others, and it's true that the other guy could have handled it better. But Tebow seems like a good kid, and it's probably just a matter of time before he learns that faith (or lack thereof) is a personal choice that he shouldn't bludgeon people with.

 

[ausbacker]

Pat Tillman was an atheist. He was pretty brave.

According to some people here, you're not a real man or a real leader if you aren't a vocal religious type. That's the mentality we're dealing with upstater1.

If Tebow wanted to be a leader, he could have said best of luck to everyone and that he was going to have a quiet prayer that everyone would do well in the test.

Tebow is a good kid, he's just a young idealist doing what he thinks is best atm. Time and real world reality will change that.

 

[mgteich]

Prayers before football game and in lots of places in our lives are not going away soon.

To some, taking an exam is more stressful than playing football, and feel that they more need of divine help.

BTW, someone recent told an audience that when he offers to pray for people, he is rarely rejected in this request. Most of us are self-knowing enough to know that a bit of prayer couldn't hurt.

I can see praying before a football game. That makes sense. People are going to throw their bodies around. By all means do it.

Here we have a gathering of people getting ready to sit down and take an exam.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Pat Tillman was an atheist. He was pretty brave.

Bingo. The idea that religion has a monopoly over morality is demonstrably untrue. I've faced life-or-death situations, and they strengthened my atheist beliefs. Definitely didn't cause me to abandon them. This whole "everyone prays in a foxhole" nonsense is pure crap and always has been.

 

[upstater1]

Prayers before football game and in lots of places in our lives are not going away soon.

To some, taking an exam is more stressful than playing football, and feel that they more need of divine help.

BTW, someone recent told an audience that when he offers to pray for people, he is rarely rejected in this request. Most of us are self-knowing enough to know that a bit of prayer couldn't hurt.

Let me say that anyone who is already speaking to an audience where prayer is appropriate is not speaking to a cross-section of Americans.

There's a big difference between that and taking the Wonderlic test.

That Dwight Howard article linked here is pretty interesting.

Here's one quote from it:

"I want to be able to speak to non-Christians so that I can get them saved or change their lives around."

This is precisely the attitude that I find unwanted. I wouldn't swear at the guy for saying that, but I have tweaked a couple Jehovahs or Mormons (politely) that showed up at my door.

Howard's quote assumes that a certain brand of Christianity is the only true brand, and it's offensive to both Catholics and non-Christians. It's like Glenn Beck saying that any church that believes in social justice is a phony church. The problem with the Howard quote is that there are plenty of Christians who do not believe non-Christians need to be saved or need to change their lives around. Heck, the Catholic and Orthodox churches believe that you don't need to believe in Christ to go to heaven, so the attitude of "saving" grates on people because if the implied insult (unintentional, in most cases, but still there when you imply that someone isn't a real Christian, or that a non-Christian is not living a fulfilling life). When such implications are made, then people have the right to say whatever they want back to you.

I'm not saying Tebow did this at the Wonderlic, obviously, since I read the Florio follow-up.

 

[patchick]

Bringing it back around to the draft, before we have to move the whole thread...

Plenty of NFL players are religious, and for some their faith helps fuel their dedication and leadership. Heath Evans was a recent example of a Patriot known for both his deep Christian faith and his locker room leadership.

But IMO there is a huge, huge difference between living and breathing your faith, and proselytizing. The occasional knock on Tebow has been that he crosses that line, and even mistakes it for leadership.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Bringing it back around to the draft, before we have to move the whole thread...

Plenty of NFL players are religious, and for some their faith helps fuel their dedication and leadership. Heath Evans was a recent example of a Patriot known for both his deep Christian faith and his locker room leadership.

But IMO there is a huge, huge difference between living and breathing your faith, and proselytizing. The occasional knock on Tebow has been that he crosses that line, and even mistakes it for leadership.

Just lock this political discussion down.

 

[patchick]

Just lock this political discussion down.

Yeah, I hadn't read everything...it's already gone too far. So long, thread!