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Pro Football Weekly: Pats 32nd in league in 2004-08 draft picks still on roster

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You are correct as long as the cap goes up. Which it has. Cap goes down, you will see the same FA environment as it was in 2001. Dumb teams paying dumb contracts and cutting players b/c they didn't plan accordingly and drafting cheaper, younger talent.

The cap won't go down any considerable amount with a new CBA. Maybe just slightly, only to level the playing field for lower revenue teams, but I can't see how the NFLPA would possibly agree to REDUCE their compensation ceiling.
 
The cap won't go down any considerable amount with a new CBA. Maybe just slightly, only to level the playing field for lower revenue teams, but I can't see how the NFLPA would possibly agree to REDUCE their compensation ceiling.

I don think it will either but my point was the main reason teams have been able to hang on to players is the cap has been going up.
 
I don think it will either but my point was the main reason teams have been able to hang on to players is the cap has been going up.

The cap is always going up.
 
The funny thing is there are similar topics to this one on every NFL team fan board. I just saw one the other day on a Colts forum bashing their recent drafting. I'm really not to worried about this statistic, especially when you look at how the 2009 draft is beginning to turn out and the upcoming 2010 draft.

The Patriots had a veteran team from 2004-2008. What was pretty much left of that team was dismantled in 09, and what remained was infused with youth.
 
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The future of this team starts with this draft,its a crucial draft and I think there is little room for error epsecially in the first 5 picks.

I really think Belichick needs to have one helluva draft if this team is to remain competitive while Brady is still a top 5 QB,especially on defense.

We can't have too many misses in day one.
 
The funny thing is there are similar topics to this one on every NFL team fan board. I just saw one the other day on a Colts forum bashing their recent drafting. I'm really not to worried about this statistic, especially when you look at how the 2009 draft is beginning to turn out and the upcoming 2010 draft.

The Patriots had a veteran team from 2004-2008. What was pretty much left of that team was dismantled in 09, and what remained was infused with youth.

Yup, Colts fans are freaking out because apparently Polian just throws away first-day picks on deadbeat offensive linemen. Which is strange, since if you listened to the crowd here, you'd think that every Colts pick for the last 5 years has turned into a starter, and most of them became exceptionally good starters.
 
The funny thing is there are similar topics to this one on every NFL team fan board. I just saw one the other day on a Colts forum bashing their recent drafting. I'm really not to worried about this statistic, especially when you look at how the 2009 draft is beginning to turn out and the upcoming 2010 draft.

The Patriots had a veteran team from 2004-2008. What was pretty much left of that team was dismantled in 09, and what remained was infused with youth.

Threads you'll see among almost every fan base's forums:

O.C. sucks
D.C. sucks
Draft sucks
Free agents suck
Screw that player for wanting more money
That (other team's) player is a thug
The guy (fan base's team) people are claiming is a thug is really a great guy
Player (pre-trade/free agent) is awesome, and the team can't afford to lose him
Player (post-trade/free agent) is overrated, and the team won't miss him
The refs cost the team the game
 
Threads you'll see among almost every fan base's forums:

O.C. sucks
D.C. sucks
Draft sucks
Free agents suck
Screw that player for wanting more money
That (other team's) player is a thug
The guy (fan base's team) people are claiming is a thug is really a great guy
Player (pre-trade/free agent) is awesome, and the team can't afford to lose him
Player (post-trade/free agent) is overrated, and the team won't miss him
The refs cost the team the game

You forgot

"......,is available as he was just cut by .......,should the team look into adding him in?"
 

This analysis doesn't surprise me in the least, and has confirmed exactly about what I and others have been warning for the last 5 years: that Bill has not won a SB in the last 5 years - and counting, let's face it - due in not an insignificant part to the lack of quality depth - or starters, in some cases - that should have been provided by better quality drafting.

Except for 2005, each of those 5 drafts has produced only one integral player who has contributed to the team's success:
2004 - Wilfork; one could argue Watson, but too many dropped passes later, LB Karlos Dansby should still have been the pick.
2006 - Gostkowski (and that's because Bill refused to pay Vinitraitor); one could argue LaMa, but more would argue against him. And the 3rd-round, SB winning TE was traded - for a 7th-rounder.
2007 - Meriweather; but if it were up to me, he would've been off my board completely. And Stomper wasn't even the best Safety available, never mind Best Player Available.
2008 - Mayo; the CBs suck, the QB's been released, and the LB's a soft IR waste.

That's a total of 4 integral players in 4 out of those 5 years. Ladies & gentlemen, that is pathetic, disgraceful & inexcusable. And there is no reason for me to believe that Bill has the ability to reverse this trend. Consider these more recent examples: Ron Brace instead of Connor Barwin, Brandon Tate instead of Mike Wallace, Richie O'Burger & Georgie Bustey instead of...anybody else, 5th-rounders for Alex Smith & Greg Lewis, and a 3rd-rounder for Derrick Burgess.

As Rock & Roll detective Ford Fairlane would say: Case Cuh-losed. Oh!
 
Threads you'll see among almost every fan base's forums:

O.C. sucks
D.C. sucks
Draft sucks
Free agents suck
Screw that player for wanting more money
That (other team's) player is a thug
The guy (fan base's team) people are claiming is a thug is really a great guy
Player (pre-trade/free agent) is awesome, and the team can't afford to lose him
Player (post-trade/free agent) is overrated, and the team won't miss him
The refs cost the team the game

Post of the year.
 
Bingo. The salary cap environment of 2000 or 2001 is drastically different than it is now. That was TEN years ago. Things change. What exactly? Well, that was only Year 8 of the salary cap; some teams obviously didn't manage it very well. Now we're in Year 18. Most league executives have only worked under a salary cap. And that salary cap has grown so much (doubled since 2001, now it's nonexistent) that it is no longer a problem for most teams. There are simply no more teams in cap hell that the Patriots can take advantage of with more financially prudent moves. (see: Lavin, James. Management Secrets of the New England Patriots) Those days are over.

The term "cap hell" no longer exists in NFL vocabulary. Teams can overpay for players and not suffer. Teams can lock up more players before they reach free agency (Eagles and Colts are known for that). The chances for an adept economist like Belichick to exploit free agency and the trade market like he did a decade ago are fewer and far between. The good teams of today build through the draft and are willing to identify and keep their core performers with fair contracts.

Bingo again, to this & to your Bingo of Armchair's post.

Are we saying that the Post-Salary-Cap-Hell NFL has passed Bill by? Because it appears that it has.
 
The cap won't go down any considerable amount with a new CBA. Maybe just slightly, only to level the playing field for lower revenue teams, but I can't see how the NFLPA would possibly agree to REDUCE their compensation ceiling.

They actually won't have a choice. It why the lockout is almost sure to happen. Because the players believe that the teams should only get 10% of the revenue and the players should get 90%. What they forget is that many of the new owners have shelled out hundreds of millions of dollars and are the ones responsible for getting the TV revenue deals, not the players. The players, on average, have a 3.3 or 4 year career expectancy. They aren't in it for the long haul. They think only 2 or 3 years, expect to get paid in the tens of millions and they have very little, financially at stake. It's why I have no issue with the non-guaranteed contracts. Because it reminds the players that they DO have something to lose. As it should be with them getting the lionshare of the revenues.

Also, let's put it this way. The way things are going, there are at least 3 franchises (possibly more) that won't be able to keep up, financially. Let's say that 2 of the 3 fold. The NFLPA just lost 160 player slots from it's. I say 160 because that is the maximum number you can have at camp.. How do you think the rest of the union members are going to react if they find out that 160 of their friends are now without jobs and now competing with them for the jobs they have on other teams???

I mean, do any of us really want a return of the 80s and 90s? I mean, you had the Colts move from Baltimore. You had the Rams move from Los Angeles to St. Louis. You had the Cardinals move from St. Louis to Arizona. You had the Raiders move from Oakland to Los Angeles and then back to Oakland. In the early 90's, New England almost lost the Pats. And, in the late 90's we had the Oilers move from Houston to Nashville and the Browns from Cleveland to Baltimore.

And that is what we, the fans, are looking at again. Can Carolina, Buffalo, Jacksonville, Arizona and San Diego really support football franchises? I mean, we already have rumors of Buffalo heading to Toronto and San Diego heading to either Los Angeles or Las Vegas. And the Cardinals, even with their new stadium and success on the field are having problems drawing crowds..

At some point, the players need to realize that, while the owners need them, the players need the owners as well. For, without the owners, the players wouldn't have a job because the league wouldn't still exist.

Also, the salary cap could, very easily, go down if the revenue from the TV contracts goes down. And, from the sounds of it, it WILL be going down on the next set of contracts unless the economy really gets going again.
 
They actually won't have a choice. It why the lockout is almost sure to happen. Because the players believe that the teams should only get 10% of the revenue and the players should get 90%.

Please back up this up.
 
The way things are going, there are at least 3 franchises (possibly more) that won't be able to keep up, financially. Let's say that 2 of the 3 fold.

And they would be???
 
Bingo. The salary cap environment of 2000 or 2001 is drastically different than it is now. That was TEN years ago. Things change. What exactly? Well, that was only Year 8 of the salary cap; some teams obviously didn't manage it very well. Now we're in Year 18. Most league executives have only worked under a salary cap. And that salary cap has grown so much (doubled since 2001, now it's nonexistent) that it is no longer a problem for most teams. There are simply no more teams in cap hell that the Patriots can take advantage of with more financially prudent moves. (see: Lavin, James. Management Secrets of the New England Patriots) Those days are over.

The term "cap hell" no longer exists in NFL vocabulary. Teams can overpay for players and not suffer. Teams can lock up more players before they reach free agency (Eagles and Colts are known for that). The chances for an adept economist like Belichick to exploit free agency and the trade market like he did a decade ago are fewer and far between. The good teams of today build through the draft and are willing to identify and keep their core performers with fair contracts.

I'd like to know which teams that were in "cap hell" that the Patriots "took advantage of".

I agree that there are no longer any teams in "cap hell" mainly because the cap has risen the way it has and teams are significantly better at managing their money, but there are teams every year who cut veterans with outrageous contracts..

The Patriots are willing to keep their core performers with "fair" contracts. People seem to forget that the Pats tried to keep Branch and Givens on the team by approaching them 2 years prior to their free agency with contract extensions. People forget that the Pats approached Koppen, Neal, Andruzzi, Ty Warren and others with contract extensions. Same with Ty Law and Willie McGinest. In many cases, the players accepted the contracts. In some cases, they didn't. But it's unfair to claim that the Patriots don't give fair deals to their players. In fact, that sort of talk smacks of Borges, CHB, Ryan, and Tomase.

On of the things that always seems to get forgotten when this subject comes up is that the Pats have only so much money to go around and they have made it a point to pay their mid-range players well. With only so much money to go around, nd if you over-spend on a Ty Law or Willie McGinest or Richard Seymour, the money you pay them has to come from somewhere. And if you short yourself on depth, then it will bite you in the long run. And the Jets are proof of that.

Looking back, the Pats have made plenty of fair offers to players. The problem has been that the players don't want fair offers.. They want to be overpaid, ala Deion "Meion" Branch, Ty Law, etc.
 
And they would be???

Miguel, I named them in my post. Guess you didn't read far enough before replying... Jacksonville, Arizona, Buffalo, San Diego, and Carolina all have financial issues. Even the Colts did prior to getting the Lucas Oil Stadium deal.
 
Good breakdown.

Thus, my point that 2006-2008 were bad drafting years. 2009 looks like it was a LOT better. Let's hope and pray for another good one in 2010.
 
It helps if you read the whole post Miguel.

Where do you back up your claim - "Because the players believe that the teams should only get 10% of the revenue and the players should get 90%."?? That's the second time that I have seen you use the 90% number.
 
Also, let's put it this way. The way things are going, there are at least 3 franchises (possibly more) that won't be able to keep up, financially. Let's say that 2 of the 3 fold. The NFLPA just lost 160 player slots from it's. I say 160 because that is the maximum number you can have at camp.. How do you think the rest of the union members are going to react if they find out that 160 of their friends are now without jobs and now competing with them for the jobs they have on other teams???
With all due respect, this is an absolutely ridiculous belief. There is not a single NFL team that is in even the most remote danger of folding. The very notion is laughable.

Oh, don't get me wrong... every once in a while, a team will post a net loss for the season. And I expect the Jaguars, Vikings and quite possible the Bills will pack up and move sometime in the next 5 years or so. But the notion that the NFL is going to contract is just not even remotely in the bounds or reality.

When was the last time a team actually folded (that's "folded" not "moved") in the 4 major North American sports? Even the pathetic Montreal Expos managed to survive.
 
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