Reiss: Lesson can be learned from Jets

[ausbacker]

I'm in New York, and even the Jets fans here would laugh at you. They were given the wins. Snap out of it.

This is exactly the type of archaic and poorly informed opinion that irks me. I'm not denying that playing second stringers is infinitely easier then playing against a team's starting roster, I am saying the Jets still had to earn the win, even against the second stringers.

The fact that you and emoney cannot identify that is beyond belief.

 

[SanAngeloState]

So you are saying it's good to build your team in such a way that getting into the playoffs requires a lot of luck, but once there you -could- succeed? I fail to grasp that logic. They were a 7-7 team before 2 teams with nothing to play for didn't try. That is not what you strive to be, and if we were ever 7-7 after 14 games this board would call us the biggest bust since the dawn of NFL and compare us to 0-16 teams.

Well obviously their intention was not to need such a lucky break to get into the playoffs. They have a rookie QB so yes, they had their ups and downs. The point is though they have a heck of a running attack and defense, so even WITH a rookie QB, they are doing very, very well. Much better than us. We were humiliated, remember? National joke is what we were.

We have the QB settled (or so we like to think, Brady hopefully will return to form next year), so if we COULD draft well, have a good defense and OL, imagine what kind of clover we'd be in!

 

[emoney_33]

All you are illustrating is your dislike for the Jets, which is coming through like a wildfire, so much so that's it's blinded your want to acknowledge their accomplishments this season.

My dislike for them has NOTHING to do with anything. Even if the Colts and Bengals played their starters and the Jets still won... they ended up 9-7! The 2008 Patriots were better than that and they MISSED the playoffs.

Fact of the matter is their last 2 opponents layed down for them just to get them to the very mediocre 9-7 record. Hate or not, it is what it is. Stop trying to act like Colts and Bengals second stringers (or any team's second stringers) are fair competition for an NFL team fighting for the playoffs. Just stop.

Sprout all the justifications you like as I'm yet to meet a sportsman or woman who goes out there with the mentality they aren't going to win or succeed. Manning is infinitely better than Painter, that's not the object of the discussion. The object of the discussion is that the Jets still had to beat the Colts who were in front at the time. They did and even allowing for the drop off in talent by playing second stringers, you still refuse to acknowledge that the Jets had to earn the win.

It is 100% the object of the discussion. If the Jets had to beat a high school team would that still be earning it? Just because they persons in question were TRYING doesn't mean it was fair competition. I can go challenge Jordan to a 1 on 1 and try my heart out, that doesn't mean Jordan is really "earning" the win so to speak. I'm just nowhere near as good as Jordan so it's a joke of a competition.

Seriously your stance boggles the mind. 7-7 playing against 2nd stringers to get to 9-7, yea let's learn from that and try to replicate it

 

[RobertWeathers]

This is exactly the type of archaic and poorly informed opinion that irks me. I'm not denying that playing second stringers is infinitely easier than playing against a team's starting roster, I am saying the Jets still had to earn the win, even against the second stringers.

The fact that you and emoney cannot identify that is beyond belief.

ausbacker- I hear what you are saying. The Jets played those games on the level but the fact is that the Colts and Cats played them as if their significance was somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd preseason game in August.

Their victories are marginalized a little. No way to get around it....

 

[emoney_33]

Well obviously their intention was not to need such a lucky break to get into the playoffs. They have a rookie QB so yes, they had their ups and downs. The point is though they have a heck of a running attack and defense, so even WITH a rookie QB, they are doing very, very well. Much better than us. We were humiliated, remember? National joke is what we were.

We have the QB settled (or so we like to think, Brady hopefully will return to form next year), so if we COULD draft well, have a good defense and OL, imagine what kind of clover we'd be in!

The only reason they are doing better than us in the playoffs is because we had one of only 2 WR get hurt. Would the Jets be doing the same thing with Revis or one of their RBs hurt?

My point is that we aren't learning anything from the Jets because they needed a **** ton of luck to make it into the tournament. Contrast that with say the 2008 Patriots who were 11-5 and MISSED the playoffs. Yes the Jets defense has played extremely well this season and I would love for the Patriots to get back to playing great defense. But that doesn't mean we are "learning" anything per se from the Jets, aside from make it to the tournament and anything's possible, but we already knew that.

We have drafted well, we just haven't front loaded the entire philosophy into the present. The patriots have to keep true to their mission statement which is to remain competitive year in and year out. Will the Jets be competitive for the next 3-5 years? We shall see.

 

[ausbacker]

My dislike for them has NOTHING to do with anything. Even if the Colts and Bengals played their starters and the Jets still won... they ended up 9-7! The 2008 Patriots were better than that and they MISSED the playoffs.

Fact of the matter is their last 2 opponents layed down for them just to get them to the very mediocre 9-7 record. Hate or not, it is what it is. Stop trying to act like Colts and Bengals second stringers (or any team's second stringers) are fair competition for an NFL team fighting for the playoffs. Just stop.

It is 100% the object of the discussion. If the Jets had to beat a high school team would that still be earning it? Just because they persons in question were TRYING doesn't mean it was fair competition. I can go challenge Jordan to a 1 on 1 and try my heart out, that doesn't mean Jordan is really "earning" the win so to speak. I'm just nowhere near as good as Jordan so it's a joke of a competition.

Seriously your stance boggles the mind. 7-7 playing against 2nd stringers to get to 9-7, yea let's learn from that and try to replicate it

Argh. So the real reason comes through. The Jets get a little lucky, play themselves into form all the while the 2008 Patriots miss out despite being 2 games better.

Sugar coat it all you like emoney. There's a definite tone to your posting that was brutally evident from the outset of our discussion.

For the final time, so you can grasp the concept. I am not saying it isn't easier to play second stringers as it clearly is, what I am saying is you still have to perform to beat them and earn your win.

 

[ausbacker]

ausbacker- I hear what you are saying. The Jets played those games on the level but the fact is that the Colts and Cats played them as if their significance was somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd preseason game in August.

Their victories are marginalized a little. No way to get around it....

Of course they are. There's absolutely no way around that and it's not a point I am disagreeing with. The Jets beating the starters for the Colts and the Bengals is different to the Jets beating the second stringers for the Colts and the Bengals. The fact is, they still had to win and they did.

 

[emoney_33]

Argh. So the real reason comes through. The Jets get a little lucky, play themselves into form all the while the 2008 Patriots miss out despite being 2 games better.

The real reason for what? What on earth are you talking about. The entire argument is the Patriots should be learning from the 2009 Jets. There is nothing to learn from the 2009 Jets who are lucky to be in the playoffs.

Sugar coat it all you like emoney. There's a definite tone to your posting that was brutally evident from the outset of our discussion.

For the final time, so you can grasp the concept. I am not saying it isn't easier to play second stringers as it clearly is, what I am saying is you still have to perform to beat them and earn your win.

Where I come from the word "earn" isn't as universal as you seem to think it is. Earning a win is facing fair competition that offers a challenge. If you are arguing that Colts 2nd stringers are a challenge to the Jets then that just proves the idea that the Jets weren't that great in 2009.

 

[emoney_33]

The fact is, they still had to win and they did.

So you have no point then? Have we resorted to bragging about beating 2nd stringers? I would fully expect any NFL team that is fighting for a playoff spot to beat any other NFL team's 2nd stringers. That doesn't do anything to prove how good or lucky a team was to make the playoffs...

 

[buile]

> Fact of the matter is their last 2 opponents layed down for them

And who do the Jets get to play in the playoffs... the same two teams, yeah? They beat the first, who obviously did not lay down this time. It'll interesting to see what happens with the Colts the 2nd time around.

Did the Jets beat San Diego? Well, I suppose they did enough to win, but Kaeding did enough to lose... not like the Jets blocked those kicks....

 

[RobertWeathers]

> Fact of the matter is their last 2 opponents layed down for them

And who do the Jets get to play in the playoffs... the same two teams, yeah? They beat the first, who obviously did not lay down this time. It'll interesting to see what happens with the Colts the 2nd time around.

Did the Jets beat San Diego? Well, I suppose they did enough to win, but Kaeding did enough to lose... not like the Jets blocked those kicks....

All part of the game. Kaeding missed a 50 yarder at the end of the 06 Pats Bolts Div. too. Hes just not a very good playoff kicker.

 

[emoney_33]

> Fact of the matter is their last 2 opponents layed down for them

And who do the Jets get to play in the playoffs... the same two teams, yeah? They beat the first, who obviously did not lay down this time. It'll interesting to see what happens with the Colts the 2nd time around.

Did the Jets beat San Diego? Well, I suppose they did enough to win, but Kaeding did enough to lose... not like the Jets blocked those kicks....

Playing them in the playoffs does nothing to discredit the fact that the Jets had 2 easier-than-easy games at the end of the season.

The Jets have played well so far in the playoffs, and they have absolutely earned the right to represent in the AFCCG but let's not pretend they weren't lucky to even get that opportunity.

 

[ausbacker]

So you have no point then? Have we resorted to bragging about beating 2nd stringers? I would fully expect any NFL team that is fighting for a playoff spot to beat any other NFL team's 2nd stringers. That doesn't do anything to prove how good or lucky a team was to make the playoffs...

Are you purposely trying to confuse the points of this discussion? From where I sit it's perfectly simple.

1. The Jets beating the Colts and the Bengals starters is different to beating their second stringers.
2. The Jets still had to beat the second stringers and thus earn the win. Sport has an uncanny way of throwing up the unexpected and fortunately for the Jets, they were good enough to avoid that.

I think we both agree in context that beating starters is different to beating second stringers. I believe we disagree in that you believe the Jets will win against second stringers no matter what where I believe the Jets should win, but they still have to earn that win.

I'm reasonably happy to leave it at that otherwise we'll be at this all day. My apologies for getting a little heated. I've been involved in some rather ridiculous discussions with colleagues today and it's unfortunately come through in my posting.

 

[SanAngeloState]

I still think we have a lot to learn from them. Jets were ridiculed here, no way they could win. Yet they did, convincingly against the Bengals.

Meanwhile we're home alone. All by our lonesome.

I hope BB can swallow his pride and take some lessons from their drafting and their defense. Heck, I hope he calls Rex Ryan and picks his brain. And don't get me wrong, I'm the biggest BB homer there is!

 

[emoney_33]

Are you purposely trying to confuse the points of this discussion? From where I sit it's perfectly simple.

Am I the only one around here with the ability to carry a conversation without forgetting what it was originally about? Let's recap of where you jumped in...

Good things happen when you trade up for top-end talent........

2 teams laying down for you when you are 7-7 so that you can barely squeak into the playoffs happen when you trade up for talent?

Bull****. The Jets still had to beat them to go 9-7. Stop denigrating the Jets. They are playing in the AFC Championship game and beat 2 quality opponents in the playoffs to get there.

So once again, the Jets being in the playoffs at 9-7 (with or without the Colts laying down, I'd say they have a better chance to beat the Bengals anyway) is not something that proves "good things happen when you trade up for top-end talent.

1. The Jets beating the Colts and the Bengals starters is different to beating their second stringers.
2. The Jets still had to beat the second stringers and thus earn the win. Sport has an uncanny way of throwing up the unexpected and fortunately for the Jets, they were good enough to avoid that.

You let me know the next time an NFL team fighting for a playoff spot loses to 2nd stringers, I'll bet you it NEVER happens. That "unexpected" stuff is for the parity that exists between NFL teams playing their starters. Not pre-season type games.

I think we both agree in context that beating starters is different to beating second stringers. I believe we disagree in that you believe the Jets will win against second stringers no matter what where I believe the Jets should win, but they still have to earn that win.

I'm reasonably happy to leave it at that otherwise we'll be at this all day.

Not even the 0-16 Lions -should- lose to 2nd stringers. This is a joke for you to continue to aruge the Jets had to 'earn' it as if it was something difficult. They got it easy, end of story.

In the end we differ on the meaning of the word "earn". Let's stop arguing semantics since we both obviously agree that the Jets had an -easy- last 2 games of the season.

 

[ausbacker]

Am I the only one around here with the ability to carry a conversation without forgetting what it was originally about? Let's recap of where you jumped in...

So once again, the Jets being in the playoffs at 9-7 (with or without the Colts laying down, I'd say they have a better chance to beat the Bengals anyway) is not something that proves "good things happen when you trade up for top-end talent.

You let me know the next time an NFL team fighting for a playoff spot loses to 2nd stringers, I'll bet you it NEVER happens. That "unexpected" stuff is for the parity that exists between NFL teams playing their starters. Not pre-season type games.

Not even the 0-16 Lions -should- lose to 2nd stringers. This is a joke for you to continue to aruge the Jets had to 'earn' it as if it was something difficult. They got it easy, end of story.

In the end we differ on the meaning of the word "earn". Let's stop arguing semantics since we both obviously agree that the Jets had an -easy- last 2 games of the season.

Contextually, you're on course like the Titanic and an iceberg, but since we've agreed to move on, I am happy to do so.

Btw, there is a +13 time difference here, so don't confuse that for jumping in at a particular point in a discussion.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

And your evidence for this is what, exactly? Was it his 12/23 for 100 yards (4.3 YPC), 1 TD and 1 INT (60.1 QB rating) performance against the Chargers?

I suppose, though, that you have a point. It'd be difficult for him to get much worse at this point.

as a pats fan, you should know that stats are meaningless. Just look at Sanchez out on the field. Look how confident he is. maybe his stats don't show it but he was able to make key throws, move the chains and keep rivers off the field as much as possible. that last drive where he was called upon to just get a couple of first downs to kill the clock is proof of this.

 

[emoney_33]

Btw, there is a +13 time difference here, so don't confuse that for jumping in at a particular point in a discussion.

The "time" of the jump in is meaningless, I posted the exact 3 quotes that led up to your response. That was the exact context of it, and you went a completely different way with it.

 

[JackBauer]

as a pats fan, you should know that stats are meaningless. Just look at Sanchez out on the field. Look how confident he is. maybe his stats don't show it but he was able to make key throws, move the chains and keep rivers off the field as much as possible. that last drive where he was called upon to just get a couple of first downs to kill the clock is proof of this.

The Jets won in spite of Sanchez, not because of him.

So far, Sanchez hasn't shown that he's able to do anything that Trent Dilfer wasn't capable of doing.

 

[emoney_33]

as a pats fan, you should know that stats are meaningless. Just look at Sanchez out on the field. Look how confident he is. maybe his stats don't show it but he was able to make key throws, move the chains and keep rivers off the field as much as possible. that last drive where he was called upon to just get a couple of first downs to kill the clock is proof of this.

You are delusional, the Jets Punted 7 times, INT once and got a FG in their first 9 drives through the first 3 quarters. They led off the game with 4 straight 3 & outs.

In the 4th quarter, the Jets offense was then given the ball at the 16 for their first TD, and Greene ran 53 Yards for their 2nd TD. What first downs did he get to kill the clock? The last drive consisted of Greene/Jones getting the 1st in 4 downs. The kid isn't good, stop pretending.