Brady vs. Montana: First 9 years

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

I think the thing said the first 9 years bud.

You may be right but does anyone think Brady's next 5 years will have him surpass Montana's accomplisments? - Its going to take mounds of work to do it.

 

[Sivy]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

You may be right but does anyone think Brady's next 5 years will have him surpass Montana's accomplisments? - Its going to take mounds of work to do it.

Its still just fun to look at...no one can really know the answer to any of this. We would actually have to give each player the same team, the same schedule and the same rules. I think its just something for us to look at and think "huh, our qb is pretty good"

Its much like the Brady vs Manning arguemnt, while we (all us smart fans) know that Brady is clearly better than Manning, no one would actually know how the other one would do if they traded places. We all ignore the facts and just compare for the hell of it. (colts fans love to ignore facts the most, you know about that having great WR and a dome for mannings hole entire career.)

 

[Jangles]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

You may be right but does anyone think Brady's next 5 years will have him surpass Montana's accomplisments? - Its going to take mounds of work to do it.

Brady will never pass Montana in most peoples minds

I don't even think winning the next 5 Super Bowls would do it

 

[vyrago]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

GOAT baaaaaaaahhh

I love this pic, maybe because I have goats.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Brady will never pass Montana in most peoples minds

I don't even think winning the next 5 Super Bowls would do it

One thing one has to wonder is how much of a great player was Jerry Rice because his QB was Montana or how good was Montana if he didn't have Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark.

Its a hard issue to ponder and one will never know.

Brady did well with virtually no big names at WR until 2007 but still its tough to compare the two. - Both QBs had great defenses on thier championship teams to help win those SBs for sure,that something else to consider when it comes to counting rings.

 

[Jangles]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

One thing one has to wonder is how much of a great player was Jerry Rice because his QB was Montana or how good was Montana if he didn't have Jerry Rice and Dwight Clark.

Its a hard issue to ponder and one will never know.

Brady did well with virtually no big names at WR until 2007 but still its tough to compare the two. - Both QBs had great defenses on thier championship teams to help win those SBs for sure,that something else to consider when it comes to counting rings.

Both were incredible and it was on their own. Montanas "clutchness" was his own ability as an athlete. He also still had to put the ball where Rice could catch it. There is more to being a quarterback than just throwing a ball and hoping someone gets under it.

Although there is definitely a chance that, while they were amazing, they might not have been quite as good as their teammates made them out to be. Had Montana played for an average team with an average receiving corps who knows what his legacy would look like.

 

[BadMoFo]

Actually, Brady is 14-4 in the playoffs. Ravens, Giants, Colts, and Broncos.

 

[juny]

If Brady gets a 4th ring, you have to put him on par with Montana. If Brady gets a 5th, there is no debate he surpasses Montana.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

If Brady gets a 4th ring, you have to put him on par with Montana. If Brady gets a 5th, there is no debate he surpasses Montana.

I would be thrilled with Brady getting a 4th,its going to be very hard though with many catching up to the "Patriot way" of doing business...getting a 5th is really hoping the other 31 teams do little in the next 5 years,I would not hold my breath on 5 SBs.

 

[Jangles]

If Brady gets a 4th ring, you have to put him on par with Montana. If Brady gets a 5th, there is no debate he surpasses Montana.

Terrible logic

Brady is a great quarterback but they aren't comparable. Not to say Montana is head and shoulders above him it's just a different league than it was.

 

[DaedalusX]

Terrible logic

Brady is a great quarterback but they aren't comparable. Not to say Montana is head and shoulders above him it's just a different league than it was.

Even if his logic is "terrible", you haven't presented any of your own.

Brady's stats match up well with Montana's. Brady has 3 SB wins and led his team to an almost perfect season. That puts him in the same league. If he wins a 4th, it puts him at least on par and, IMO, ahead. If he wins 2 more, it would be idiotic to even consider debating it.

People mythologize Montana because nostalgia amplifies the great and diminishes the not so great. Objectively -- the statistics and body of work -- are comparable. Denying that is an appeal to emotion wrapped up in claims of "intangibles".

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

And when has Brady been any less clutch...lets not forget he did lead a should have been game winning drive in the SB that many don't talk about.

I think Brady and Montana are 1-2 and the order is up for debate us in new england will take Tommy Cali will take Montana and I bet it splits pretty even between the coasts.

If Tommy wins more SBs the debate will be over.

I'm as big a Pats fan as anyone here, but we're doing Peyton Manning a serious disservice by saying Montana and Brady are obviously 1-2 (in some order) of all time. For some reason, we don't take seriously just how freaking unbelievably good Peyton Manning has been. *Four*(!) MVP's, a Super Bowl title, sick, sick stats, and look at the team results: two bad seasons (including 3-13 his rookie year), but 10 seasons of 10+ wins, including 8 consecutive. That's very impressive.

No, his postseason stats haven't been as good, for sure, but the guy is ridiculously good and, right now, sizeably better than Brady (as much as I hate to say it).

 

[Disco Volante]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Montana's record is 16-7 in the playoffs..not 7-5 - Where the hell did you get that from?

Montana also won 4 Superbowls..NOT 2
Montana was MVP 3 times

Is this a joke??

No, but your reading comprehension may be as the first words of the post clearly read "First 10 years..."

Next time read the post before responding, especially the first 3 words.

 

[ivanvamp]

Re: Brady vs Montana: First 9 years

Were any of Montana's playoff games, especially after becoming an experienced quarterback as bad as Brady's was this weekend?

1/4/87, at NYG: 8-15 (53.3%), 98 yds, 0 td, 2 int
1/9/88, vs Min: 12-26 (46.2%), 109 yds, 0 td, 1 int
1/6/85, vs Chi: 18-34 (52.9%), 233 yds, 1 td, 2 int
1/23/94, at Buf: 9-23 (39.1%), 125 yds, 0 td, 1 int
12/29/85, at NYG: 26-47 (55.3%), 296 yds, 0 td, 1 int

Brady's QB rating vs. Baltimore was 49.1, his worst ever. Montana had two games with a worse QB rating - 1/4/87 and 1/9/88. Brady has had three playoff games with a QB rating under 70 (1/14/07 at SD (57.6), 1/20/08 vs SD (66.4), and 1/10/10 vs Bal (49.1)).

Montana had 5 playoff games with a rating less than 70 (the five that I gave above).

That's a long way to answer your question. The short answer is: Yes.

 

[Jangles]

Even if his logic is "terrible", you haven't presented any of your own.

Brady's stats match up well with Montana's. Brady has 3 SB wins and led his team to an almost perfect season. That puts him in the same league. If he wins a 4th, it puts him at least on par and, IMO, ahead. If he wins 2 more, it would be idiotic to even consider debating it.

People mythologize Montana because nostalgia amplifies the great and diminishes the not so great. Objectively -- the statistics and body of work -- are comparable. Denying that is an appeal to emotion wrapped up in claims of "intangibles".

I'm not going to wade into an argument that can't be won.

If you want to believe Brady is better if he wins 2 more superbowls fine.

 

[Satchboogie3]

One interesting tidbit:

Career 4th Quarter comebacks:
Montana: 31 (0.17 frequency)
Brady: 21 (0.15)
Manning: 35 (0.17)

Career Game Winning Drives:
Montana: 33 (0.17)
Brady: 29 (0.20)
Manning: 44 (0.21)

 

[Nonentity]

Yes, everyone forgets that the 49ers had a "dynasty" that didn't end until the late 90s. You can't count out a team that has a great coach and quarterback because of a few seasons without a Super Bowl win. People are just stupid.

Two words: Steve Young.


If we want a 20 year dynasty, we will have to replace Tom Brady eventually. And that will not be easy...

 

[IronSheik]

One thing about this all Manning playoff record is that he lost 2 games cause of a kicker 00 at Mia and 05 vs Pit and also had the OT in 08 to San Diego, where the Colts never had the ball.

How would history be if Vinatieri missed the FG vs Oakland to send the game into OT and the FG late vs the Titans in 03.

What if Manning had Vinatieri and Brady had Vanderjact in the playoffs.

 

[ausbacker]

One thing about this all Manning playoff record is that he lost 2 games cause of a kicker 00 at Mia and 05 vs Pit and also had the OT in 08 to San Diego, where the Colts never had the ball.

How would history be if Vinatieri missed the FG vs Oakland to send the game into OT and the FG late vs the Titans in 03.

What if Manning had Vinatieri and Brady had Vanderjact in the playoffs.

It doesn't matter and isn't applicable purely on the reason of you go with what you have as history has already been set.

 

[Disco Volante]

What if Manning had Vinatieri and Brady had Vanderjact in the playoffs.

All-Pro selection Mike Vanderjact was the second most accurate kicker in NFL history, who was just surpassed for #1 this year by the Chargers' Nate Kaeding.

Accuracy: 86.% (Second highest in NFL history)
Consecutive successful FGs: 42 (NFL Record)

Only kicker in NFL history to not miss a single FG/PTA for an entire season, including playoffs.