PostGame Denver/Patriots Thread

[condon84]

There was, actually, although it wasn't much.

I remember, but it was a ridiculous thread bashing Seymour and people came to his defense.

The point is, people were generally happy with the pressure our defense applied last week which we completely lacked this week, aside from the very last drive in OT when we had to make a stop.

 

[Deus Irae]

we would have won if Ghost makes a chip shot (for him) 40 yarder. Big Sey is gone...Humpty Dumpty syndrome.

Bad argument. The missed kick was, obviously, a factor, but Denver missed one too.

 

[fair catch fryar]

Holy fncking crap! I just logged on and read this thread and can't believe the number of people ready to throw in the towel and actually want to roast Brady. WTF already? I agree, Brady looked pretty below average today and Josh coached a pretty good game, BUT step away from the bridge and think for a second. The Pats are 3-2, and in case some of you forget Brady is human and still recovering from a major surgery after missing an entire season. If this team is looking like this by week 12 and barely above .500, then by all means, have at it or just do us all a favor and get the hell off the bandwagon until you see fit to climb back aboard.

 

[Deus Irae]

I remember, but it was a ridiculous thread bashing Seymour and people came to his defense.

The point is, people were generally happy with the pressure our defense applied last week which we completely lacked this week, aside from the very last drive in OT when we had to make a stop.

People are generally swayed by the emotions of what happened in the last game. The reality is that the effects of Seymour's absence can't be measured, so it's easily ignored when the team wins.

However, this team still can't get any pressure without blitzing and it's still struggling against the run when it's not stacking the box. Seymour is clearly missed on the field. It was a bad trade, but there's no real sense pounding on about it after every game. What's obvious to some of us will be denied to the bitter end by the homers.

 

[Patjew]

I blame that stupid "TB12" hat.

 

[Joker]

Bad argument. The missed kick was, obviously, a factor, but Denver missed one too.

it's not an argument..if he hits it and the Denver kicker misses the one he missed, the Patriots eke out a win.That's all I'm saying, it was a factor...along with more than a few others of course.If he misses that one in a playoff game in January then it will be a HUGE factor.

 

[Deus Irae]

it's not an argument..if he hits it and the Denver kicker misses the one he missed, the Patriots eke out a win.That's all I'm saying, it was a factor...along with more than a few others of course.If he misses that one in a playoff game in January then it will be a HUGE factor.

You tried to dismiss the Seymour argument by using the missed FG and citing to Humpty Dumpty. It was a bad argument.

 

[BionicPatriot]

When the Broncos were marching down the field, how many of those yards were given up by Brady?

We were tied going into OT. The fact is, Brady hits Moss or Welker on those two huge misses and this game is done. I am not saying the defense played fine or doesn't need improvement. They just didn't lose us the game, Brady did.

 

[Patjew]

People are generally swayed by the emotions of what happened in the last game. The reality is that the effects of Seymour's absence can't be measured, so it's easily ignored when the team wins.

However, this team still can't get any pressure without blitzing and it's still struggling against the run when it's not stacking the box. Seymour is clearly missed on the field. It was a bad trade, but there's no real sense pounding on about it after every game. What's obvious to some of us will be denied to the bitter end by the homers.

I was also against the trade (am still am to some extent), but the truth is that if Brady played even close to "Brady-like" this game would have been an easy victory, and the Jets game probably would have been too.

Thinking about it, I'd say that with a close-to-100%-Brady the team might still be 3-2, but the losses could have come against the Bills and Ravens who IMO the Pats were lucky to beat. I guess that's stupid to think about, but whatevah.

 

[makoute]

People are generally swayed by the emotions of what happened in the last game. The reality is that the effects of Seymour's absence can't be measured, so it's easily ignored when the team wins.

However, this team still can't get any pressure without blitzing and it's still struggling against the run when it's not stacking the box. Seymour is clearly missed on the field. It was a bad trade, but there's no real sense pounding on about it after every game. What's obvious to some of us will be denied to the bitter end by the homers.

I really don't think Seymour helps in this case. Seymour would not be a beast 4-3 DE.

 

[condon84]

People are generally swayed by the emotions of what happened in the last game. The reality is that the effects of Seymour's absence can't be measured, so it's easily ignored when the team wins.

However, this team still can't get any pressure without blitzing and it's still struggling against the run when it's not stacking the box. Seymour is clearly missed on the field. It was a bad trade, but there's no real sense pounding on about it after every game. What's obvious to some of us will be denied to the bitter end by the homers.

We can still have an effective defense without Seymour. You obviously can't replace a player of Seymour's caliber, but I think we've added enough good players in our secondary to allow us to cheat men in the box. It can be done, we've seen teams do it (Jets doing it this year).

What is obvious to me is that our coaches are lacking creative ways to attack the offense (with the exception last week) and take advantage of our new personnel. Bodden, Springs, and McGowan showed that they could be successful in tight coverage when we applied pressure (blitz).

 

[BionicPatriot]

We can still have an effective defense without Seymour. You obviously can't replace a player of Seymour's caliber, but I think we've added enough good players in our secondary to allow us to cheat men in the box. It can be done, we've seen teams do it (Jets doing it this year).

What is obvious to me is that our coaches are lacking creative ways to attack the offense (with the exception last week) and take advantage of our new personnel. Bodden, Springs, and McGowan showed that they could be successful in tight coverage when we applied pressure (blitz).

Those coaches drew up two WIDE open plays that Brady ****ed up.

 

[Deus Irae]

We were tied going into OT. The fact is, Brady hits Moss or Welker on those two huge misses and this game is done. I am not saying the defense played fine or doesn't need improvement. They just didn't lose us the game, Brady did.

We seem to have watched different games. I watched a game where Kyle Orton performed surgery on the New England Patriots defense to the tune of 35-48 for 330 yards while Knowshon Moreno was not exactly struggling running the ball.

Seems to me that the defense had quite a hand in the loss, even if Brady's struggles stuck out more than anything else.

 

[condon84]

Those coaches drew up two WIDE open plays that Brady ****ed up.

I was talking about our defense and their lack of creativity in attacking the offense.

 

[Kontradiction]

Richard Seymour

Hey, it is what it is. If we draft a stud in the first round, a year and a half from now, it may end up looking like an awesome trade in hindsight regardless. But I said going in that it would probably cost us a few wins this year, and that's looking like a pretty good prediction. It's not like Brady's never had a bad game before- in the past, when he had bad games, we could win anyways. Similarly, when the defense has a bad game, the offense needs to be able to cover for it from time to time.

The fact is, any time a team loses, better offense or better defense could have changed things. I know a lot of you are tired, by now, of me harping on the loss of Seymour after every close loss, but do you guys think that the Broncos put up 13 unanswered points on our soft coverage if we have Seymour bringing the heat? I don't see it happening. This game was so close that a slight nudge could have won it in any phase of the game. Seymour would have provided more than a slight nudge.

On the bright side, the Raiders look awful. Hopefully they manage to be a little better than KC this year, though, so they'll have a tougher schedule next year...

Yup. If Seymour was in there, I have a feeling a four man rush would have been much more effective than it was today. Let's not forget how badly Seymour abused Denver's O-Line last season.

 

[ausbacker]

What strikes out to me atm that is we are a team that simply does not make the important plays. We've been bailed out by opposition mistakes and penalties far too often in this 4 game stretch.

I was really annoyed with the coaching in this game and Brady's childish frustration with his receivers for not catching poor balls thrown their way.

Denver should not have been allowed back into this game at 17-7 with the ball to begin the second half. Reminded me of the Jets loss earlier this year and the Giants SB loss for all the luck that went Denver's way all over again.

 

[Kontradiction]

We seem to have watched different games. I watched a game where Kyle Orton performed surgery on the New England Patriots defense to the tune of 35-48 for 330 yards while Knowshon Moreno was not exactly struggling running the ball.

Seems to me that the defense had quite a hand in the loss, even if Brady's struggles stuck out more than anything else.

The defense was one, if not THE, main reason for the loss. But you can't ignore the fact that Brady left 7-14 points out on the field by missing his receivers badly. The timing and the mechanics just aren't there yet.

But I do agree. The defense was pathetic today. Orton could have sewed a cute sweater back there today and still picked apart the defense.

 

[Deus Irae]

The defense was one, if not THE, main reason for the loss. But you can't ignore the fact that Brady left 7-14 points out on the field by missing his receivers badly. The timing and the mechanics just aren't there yet.

But I do agree. The defense was pathetic today. Orton could have sewed a cute sweater back there today and still picked apart the defense.

Oh, I'm not trying to let Brady off the hook. I think that the bad throw to Moss on 3rd down after the half was the turning point in the game. New England could have opened that game up and forced Orton to throw downfield trying to catch up. Instead, that miss allowed the Broncos to keep playing the same way and exposed this defense to an offense that was still running its game plan, and this defense is just not very good right now, no matter how people (I don't mean you, just 'people' in general) try to pretend otherwise.

 

[mgteich]

You guys are going to be very disappointed with the defense this year. The sixth rated defense that gave up 17 points should be good enough to win with Tom Brady running the offense.

If the defense needs to be much better in the future, then we can start focusing more resources toward the defense and less toward the offense, so that we will have a defense that allows fewer than 14 points a game so that our offense can be more secure.

BTW, how many defenses kept their opponents to few points than the patriots today? And BTW, how many defenses allowed less than 17 points per game last year.

I know that you guys would like to see lots of pressure, lots of blitzing, resulting in more sacks and more interceptions. Belichick has judged that this would also result in allowing more points, but obviously yards are more important to you guys. It is a matter pf defensive philosophy.

The defense was one, if not THE, main reason for the loss. But you can't ignore the fact that Brady left 7-14 points out on the field by missing his receivers badly. The timing and the mechanics just aren't there yet.

But I do agree. The defense was pathetic today. Orton could have sewed a cute sweater back there today and still picked apart the defense.

 

[eagle eye]

Oh, I'm not trying to let Brady off the hook. I think that the bad throw to Moss on 3rd down after the half was the turning point in the game. New England could have opened that game up and forced Orton to throw downfield trying to catch up. Instead, that miss allowed the Broncos to keep playing the same way and exposed this defense to an offense that was still running its game plan, and this defense is just not very good right now, no matter how people (I don't mean you, just 'people' in general) try to pretend otherwise.

When a New England D gives up 17 points in 4 quarters you expect that to be a win. The D did their part, our offense did not.
Brady wasn't great today, but the big problem is the play calling. Seriously you put Brady in the shotgun with Faulk on 3rd and 3 everytime, like who is calling these suicidal plays?