Police confirm Murder-Suicide in McNair death investigation

[Tunescribe]

You said he bears some responsibility for what happened to him, and I disagreed. Yeah, he cheated on his wife with a younger woman; doesn't make him in any way responsible for the fact that he got murdered.

If you don't want trouble, don't put yourself in positions where trouble has a greater chance of happening. McNair was living recklessly. In that respect, he ABSOLUTELY shared a degree of responsibility for what happened to him. You can't argue that.

And by the way, can you really call a 20-year-old female two years out of high school a "woman" other than physically? Hell, she was a kid, and a disturbed one at that.

 

[Deus Irae]

If you don't want trouble, don't put yourself in positions where trouble has a greater chance of happening. McNair was living recklessly. In that respect, he ABSOLUTELY shared a degree of responsibility for what happened to him. You can't argue that.

Everything you do involves a chance where trouble happens. Certainly, for example, there's more danger of death by car accident than by emotionally distraught mistress. Does this mean that people shouldn't drive?

 

[Tunescribe]

Everything you do involves a chance where trouble happens. Certainly, for example, there's more danger of death by car accident than by emotionally distraught mistress. Does this mean that people shouldn't drive?

OK, try looking at it this way -- where do you think something bizarrely harmful would be more likely to occur:

(A). In your own home with your wife and the mother of your children?

Or

(B). In the apartment of your unstable underage mistress two years out of high school?

I suspect McNair would be alive today if he'd chosen option (A). What do you think?

 

[tombonneau]

Huh? How did you take that from my post? What I said makes perfect sense, especially from someone in McNair's position. He was a man cheating on his wife with a kid. Poor choice. It doesn't amount to asking to be murdered, but it's reckless behavior.

I kind of get what you're saying. If you were to draw a line graph with the X-axis time, and the Y-axis the likelihood of being murdered (in %), I suppose it would move along steadily at 0.00001% during your day-to-day life, and then maybe when you're with your 20-year old mistress and you're alone in an apartment and drunk it would jump to 0.0002% or something.

Higher than normal, but still nothing I'd call a high-risk situation.

It's not we're talking about the dad from ALF smoking crack and making out with homeless dudes here.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, try looking at it this way -- where do you think something bizarrely harmful would be more likely to occur:

(A). In your own home with your wife and the mother of your children?

Or

(B). In the apartment of your unstable underage mistress two years out of high school?

I suspect McNair would be alive today if he'd chosen option (A). What do you think?

I'm pretty confident that more wives kill husbands than mistresses kill lovers. Of course, if you can find a stat that says otherwise, I'll be happy to take a look at it.

 

[Tunescribe]

I kind of get what you're saying. If you were to draw a line graph with the X-axis time, and the Y-axis the likelihood of being murdered (in %), I suppose it would move along steadily at 0.00001% during your day-to-day life, and then maybe when you're with your 20-year old mistress and you're alone in an apartment and drunk it would jump to 0.0002% or something.

Higher than normal, but still nothing I'd call a high-risk situation.

It's not we're talking about the dad from ALF smoking crack and making out with homeless dudes here.

There is nothing on earth more irrational than a disturbed young woman. That doesn't make them likely murderers, but if you want to experience trouble, they're the right people to hang out with. McNair wasn't real smart.

I'm pretty confident that more wives kill husbands than mistresses kill lovers. Of course, if you can find a stat that says otherwise, I'll be happy to take a look at it.

I'd guess more mistresses kill lovers who threaten to bail on them financially. Wives want to keep husbands alive for that meal ticket. You're the one who needs to find those stats.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is nothing on earth more irrational than a disturbed young woman. That doesn't make them likely murderers, but you want to experience trouble, they're the right people to hang out with.

Spoken like someone with some experience in such matters?? LOL And 20 is the new 16 I guess...

I hate to break this to some of you but considering more than half of the marriages in this country end in divorce, I'd be surprised to find out that less than half the married male pro athletes in this country aren't cheating on their spouses. Ample opportunity, insane money and testosterone are a potentially deadly combination.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd guess more mistresses kill lovers who threaten to bail on them financially. Wives want to keep husbands alive for that meal ticket. You're the one who needs to find those stats.

Why? You're the one making an assertion. I'm merely responding.

OK, try looking at it this way -- where do you think something bizarrely harmful would be more likely to occur:

(A). In your own home with your wife and the mother of your children?

Or

(B). In the apartment of your unstable underage mistress two years out of high school?

I suspect McNair would be alive today if he'd chosen option (A). What do you think?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

There is nothing on earth more irrational than a disturbed young woman. That doesn't make them likely murderers, but if you want to experience trouble, they're the right people to hang out with. McNair wasn't real smart.



I'd guess more mistresses kill lovers who threaten to bail on them financially. Wives want to keep husbands alive for that meal ticket. You're the one who needs to find those stats.

You would guess wrong, then.

Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Gender

 

[Tunescribe]

Ample opportunity, insane money and testosterone are a potentially deadly combination.

Mix in a little stupidity and the odds are even worse.

 

[BradyFTW!]

If you don't want trouble, don't put yourself in positions where trouble has a greater chance of happening. McNair was living recklessly. In that respect, he ABSOLUTELY shared a degree of responsibility for what happened to him. You can't argue that.

And by the way, can you really call a 20-year-old female two years out of high school a "woman" other than physically? Hell, she was a kid, and a disturbed one at that.

So, by your own reasoning, anyone who drives bears responsibility in their death if they get killed in a car accident? After all, driving is statistically more dangerous than being at home. If people would just lock themselves in their houses and never leave, there would be no way at all for them to die in a car accident.

Every decision that you make in life comes with risks, however incredibly improbably they might be. Was it reckless? Sure it was. Was it asking for trouble? In some ways. Does that make him in any way responsible for the fact that he's dead? Of course not. There's absolutely no reason to think that dating a 20 year old should or will lead to being murdered.

 

[PATS68]

I work for a PD where we deal with tons of people with mental illness. From my experience there should have been some red flags McNair should have seen from this girl. If her friends saw them so didn't he.

I would not doubt this was not her first incident with some type of suicide. Most of the calls I have been on and there have been way too many, is the person usually takes a ton of pills, but always calls either a friend or 911. When they want to kill themselves with a weapon, you will see hesitation marks on their wrists and again they call a friend or 911.

I read that she told a friend that she was going to end it all, so it was out there she was having problems.

Should McNair take some heat for this, I say yes. What was he telling her all this time about his wife and where their relationship was going? What kind of fantasy was he leading her on? Did he see the red flags and was he trying to end it? There are so many more questions I could ask.

My question is why was McNair not arrested the night she got a DUI for allowing an improper person to operate a motor vehicle. The vehicle was also reg. to him and he was in it and she was underage and had consumed alcohol. Maybe by getting arrested, he gets called out in the news paper and by espn for cheating. He would of had to end it with this girl, but he would be alive.

 

[Tunescribe]

So, by your own reasoning, anyone who drives bears responsibility in their death if they get killed in a car accident? After all, driving is statistically more dangerous than being at home. If people would just lock themselves in their houses and never leave, there would be no way at all for them to die in a car accident.

Every decision that you make in life comes with risks, however incredibly improbably they might be. Was it reckless? Sure it was. Was it asking for trouble? In some ways. Does that make him in any way responsible for the fact that he's dead? Of course not. There's absolutely no reason to think that dating a 20 year old should or will lead to being murdered.

Read post #32 in this thread by Pats68 and try making the same argument. He and I are saying the same thing.

 

[jmt57]

Some more on that DUI a few days before the shooting:

Officer: McNair unhappy in girlfriend's DUI stop

A police officer tells Steve McNair's girlfriend the ex-NFL star is "not happy" during a DUI stop captured on video two days before the couple died in a murder-suicide.

Twenty-year-old Sahel Kazemi was pulled over early last Thursday and arrested on a drunken driving charge. McNair was a passenger in the car.

Police released video of the DUI stop after they announced Wednesday that Kazemi killed McNair and herself.

In the video, Kazemi repeatedly asks an officer to have McNair come to the window of the police cruiser where she's sitting. The officer responds, "He's not happy." McNair, who wasn't charged, leaves in a cab without coming to talk to her. He later bailed her out.

Kazemi laughs and teases the officer but also says she's scared of going to jail.


I'm trying to remember the timeline from all these reports; didn't she buy the gun just a couple days before the shooting also? Was it before or after the DUI?

 

[RoughingthePasser]

There is nothing on earth more irrational than a disturbed young woman. That doesn't make them likely murderers, but if you want to experience trouble, they're the right people to hang out with. McNair wasn't real smart.



I'd guess more mistresses kill lovers who threaten to bail on them financially. Wives want to keep husbands alive for that meal ticket. You're the one who needs to find those stats.

McNair wasn't smart and it eventually led to this.
He should have went home.

gotta know when to bail-dumb

1.He bought her a new SUV REGISTERED with his name-dumb.
2.She would get limo rides paid for by him-there was no stealth-dumb
3.She got arrested recently with him and they were fried.

dumb doods.
Tunscribe......you know what time it is

 

[TrueBeliever]

what ever happen to crazy? you cant be crazy no more? When I was a kid, the crazy kids went to school in the little ass bus, and they had a room at the end of the school, just in case they went crazy, they only hurt other crazy kids.

Hey, you swiped that from Chris Rock!

 

[Deus Irae]

McNair wasn't smart and it eventually led to this.
He should have went home.

gotta know when to bail-dumb

1.He bought her a new SUV REGISTERED with his name-dumb.
2.She would get limo rides paid for by him-there was no stealth-dumb
3.She got arrested recently with him and they were fried.

dumb doods.
Tunscribe......you know what time it is

Which of these numbered items are warning signs that you're just about to get 2 taps to the head and a pair to the body?

 

[BradyFTW!]

I work for a PD where we deal with tons of people with mental illness. From my experience there should have been some red flags McNair should have seen from this girl. If her friends saw them so didn't he.

Probably.

I would not doubt this was not her first incident with some type of suicide. Most of the calls I have been on and there have been way too many, is the person usually takes a ton of pills, but always calls either a friend or 911. When they want to kill themselves with a weapon, you will see hesitation marks on their wrists and again they call a friend or 911.

No way of knowing how much, if any of this, McNair was privy to. I've had close friends commit suicide, and I didn't know that there was a problem until it was too late. Other times, I've been of the few people who did know and helped those people get treatment, while their friends, family, and coworkers never learned the truth. Even if she did have friends who knew that she was in a bad place, that doesn't mean that it was 'out there' for everyone who was close to her to know.

I read that she told a friend that she was going to end it all, so it was out there she was having problems.

What exactly do you mean by 'out there'? And even if he did know, that means he should do what? Should everyone, upon finding out that someone who is close to them is suicidal, turn tail and run to make extra sure that they don't get murdered? I know that it's never been my first instinct, upon finding out that someone close to me was contemplating suicide, to bail on them.

Should McNair take some heat for this, I say yes. What was he telling her all this time about his wife and where their relationship was going? What kind of fantasy was he leading her on? Did he see the red flags and was he trying to end it? There are so many more questions I could ask. Maybe by getting arrested, he gets called out in the news paper and by espn for cheating. He would of had to end it with this girl, but he would be alive.

He was a public figure. It'd be pretty hard to lie about being married. The rest is just speculation on your part. He obviously exhibited poor judgment throughout this whole ordeal, but he had absolutely no reason to believe that this could end in him being murdered. Even if he knew she was deeply disturbed, which he may not have. Yes, he cheated on his wife, and that was bad of him, but in what world does that make him responsible for what happened? People make mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes lead, improbably, to their deaths, but that doesn't make them responsible for the actions of the person that kills them. The only person who's responsible for McNair's death is the person who shot him.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

According to PFT the gunpowder residue was on her left hand with the bullet hole in her right temple. If true that's quite the accomplishment.

Not really. Holding the gun with both hands (police style) and firing it will leave GSR on both hands (especially no the palm which it where it was detected). If she used it to shoot McNair and then herself, she'd had gunshot residue on both hands. It would be easier to detect on her off-hand (the one she didn't use to shoot herself) because it wouldn't be contaminated/covered in blood.

 

[spacecrime]

That's bull. If that's the standard, then everyone who dates anyone for any reason is taking an enormous risk and bears some responsibility if they get shot in the face.

Well, if they are dating someone who is emotionally unstable, just out of high school, and a heavy drug user, why wouldn't some of the responsibility go to them?

Not that he deserved it. No one deserves to get murdered.

But you are accountable for your actions and if your actions put you in harm's way ...

Think of it like this. You and I do not deserve to be robbed at gunpoint. But if we were to walk around drunk in an area of Boston with crackhouses, etc, flashing money, we would likely get robbed. Some of the responsibility has to be ours because of our poor choices. Not that we deserve to be robbed, but Jeez Louise, there are good choices in the world and bad choices, and you are a lot safer by not making certain bad choices.