State of the Teams: New York Jets

[Deus Irae]

Given that we're right in the heart of the dead season, I thought now would be a pretty good time to look at what the other teams in the league have been up to. I thought I'd start the journey off with the Jets.

Record last season: 9-7

Major departures: Head Coach Eric Mangini, QB Brett Favre

Major Additions: Head Coach Rex Ryan, QB Mark Sanchez

Free Agent signings: Jim Leonhard, Larry Izzo, Donald Strickland, Marques Douglas, Bart Scott


Recent History:

Last season, the Jets decided to go 'all in' on the season by signing expensive free agents and making the trade for Brett Favre. It was a gutsy decision by the club, especially because it was really only a move to secure a wild card berth in the AFC. With Tom Brady and the Patriots dominating the conference, there was no way that the Jets were going to win the division. But, as the Super Bowl had shown, anything is possible in a one game scenario. And then, fortune shined on the Jets.

In the first game of the new season, Tom Brady went down with a season ending injury. The path to the AFCE title was now clear for the Jets. It was now just a matter of integrating the new veterans into the system and making a deep run into the playoffs. And that's exactly what looked to be happening, as the Jets broke out to an 8-3 start, including wins over the surprisingly resilient Patriots and a Tennessee Titans team that had been considered the best team in the conference until the Jets destroyed them.

Unfortunately for the Jets, the win over the Titans was the high water mark for the season. Favre had suffered a biceps injury and would not be effective for the rest of the season. Jenkins, another major addition to the club, began to wear down as the strain of having to carry the run defense on his back, along with too many pounds on his frame, took its toll on his stamina. After a very promising 8-3 start, the Jets collapsed and lost 4 of the last 5 games. The team finished just 3rd in the division at 9-7 and the housecleaning began. Mangini was fired. Favre retired.


Off season news:

Sanchez has reportedly been up and down in his early days as a Jet. While this is not surprising for a rookie, the team needs Sanchez to claim the starting job right away if they are going to contend for the playoffs this season. Clemens has shown little in his NFL career to make anyone think he can lead a team to the promised land. In running back news, Thomas Jones is not happy with his contract, and the impact of his displeasure remains to be seen. Also, the wide receiver position is extremely weak, and the Jets have been named as one of the teams showing real interest in Plaxico Burress if he's allowed to play this season.

Most news out of Jets land is that the defense has been far ahead of the offense. This should come as no surprise, as the defense has a chance to be pretty good this year, if the team can find a way to get Kris Jenkins both some help and some rest during the games. Unfortunately, for Jets fans, the news on a couple of defensive players has been less than stellar. Gholston is reportedly continuing to struggle as he tries to adapt to the NFL, and Calvin Pace will miss the season's first 4 games due to a drug suspension.


Outlook:

With the quarterbacks struggling, and with one of the weakest wide receiving corps in the NFL, the Jets offense could be miserable this season. The offensive line isn't terrible, but it's nowhere near as good as it should be when you consider the individual players. This team is going to need to see rapid progress from the QB position, or the Jets season could be over early. The team's first 4 games are against Houston, New England, Tennessee and New Orleans. With Pace missing those games and the Jets being on the road against the Texans, New York could very well be the underdog in all 4 games. An 0-4 start is not out of the realm of possibility, and 2009 could quickly become a lost season for the Jets if things don't break in the team's favor early.


Prediction:

I don't expect a double digit win season from the Jets. In fact, I don't expect them to finish above .500. The combination of a difficult schedule, a weak receiving corps and inexperience at the QB position will sink the team's playoff hopes. 8 wins may be generous. A season with as few as 5 wins would not shock me.



P.S.: If anyone would like to breakdown other NFL teams, please feel free to do so. If not, I'll do my best to get to every team before the season begins, but I can't make any promises that I'll be able to do so. Also, please keep in mind that late developments can have significant effects upon a team and a change in the predictions of people making them. The signing of Burress would dramatically improve this team's receiving corps, just for an example.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

As a notorious member of another board might say, hee! Sexy Rexy and the Jesters, the new backstreet boyz.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

To bastardize an old joke I heard somewhere—

What are the three phases of the game for the JEST?

Offense, emergency, and defeat.

 

[Ring 6]

Given that we're right in the heart of the dead season, I thought now would be a pretty good time to look at what the other teams in the league have been up to. I thought I'd start the journey off with the Jets.

Record last season: 9-7

Major departures: Head Coach Eric Mangini, QB Brett Favre

Major Additions: Head Coach Rex Ryan, QB Mark Sanchez

Free Agent signings: Jim Leonhard, Larry Izzo, Donald Strickland, Marques Douglas, Bart Scott


Recent History:

Last season, the Jets decided to go 'all in' on the season by signing expensive free agents and making the trade for Brett Favre. It was a gutsy decision by the club, especially because it was really only a move to secure a wild card berth in the AFC. With Tom Brady and the Patriots dominating the conference, there was no way that the Jets were going to win the division. But, as the Super Bowl had shown, anything is possible in a one game scenario. And then, fortune shined on the Jets.

In the first game of the new season, Tom Brady went down with a season ending injury. The path to the AFCE title was now clear for the Jets. It was now just a matter of integrating the new veterans into the system and making a deep run into the playoffs. And that's exactly what looked to be happening, as the Jets broke out to an 8-3 start, including wins over the surprisingly resilient Patriots and a Tennessee Titans team that had been considered the best team in the conference until the Jets destroyed them.

Unfortunately for the Jets, the win over the Titans was the high water mark for the season. Favre had suffered a biceps injury and would not be effective for the rest of the season. Jenkins, another major addition to the club, began to wear down as the strain of having to carry the run defense on his back, along with too many pounds on his frame, took its toll on his stamina. After a very promising 8-3 start, the Jets collapsed and lost 4 of the last 5 games. The team finished just 3rd in the division at 9-7 and the housecleaning began. Mangini was fired. Favre retired.


Off season news:

Sanchez has reportedly been up and down in his early days as a Jet. While this is not surprising for a rookie, the team needs Sanchez to claim the starting job right away if they are going to contend for the playoffs this season. Clemens has shown little in his NFL career to make anyone think he can lead a team to the promised land. In running back news, Thomas Jones is not happy with his contract, and the impact of his displeasure remains to be seen. Also, the wide receiver position is extremely weak, and the Jets have been named as one of the teams showing real interest in Plaxico Burress if he's allowed to play this season.

Most news out of Jets land is that the defense has been far ahead of the offense. This should come as no surprise, as the defense has a chance to be pretty good this year, if the team can find a way to get Kris Jenkins both some help and some rest during the games. Unfortunately, for Jets fans, the news on a couple of defensive players has been less than stellar. Gholston is reportedly continuing to struggle as he tries to adapt to the NFL, and Calvin Pace will miss the season's first 4 games due to a drug suspension.


Outlook:

With the quarterbacks struggling, and with one of the weakest wide receiving corps in the NFL, the Jets offense could be miserable this season. The offensive line isn't terrible, but it's nowhere near as good as it should be when you consider the individual players. This team is going to need to see rapid progress from the QB position, or the Jets season could be over early. The team's first 4 games are against Houston, New England, Tennessee and New Orleans. With Pace missing those games and the Jets being on the road against the Texans, New York could very well be the underdog in all 4 games. An 0-4 start is not out of the realm of possibility, and 2009 could quickly become a lost season for the Jets if things don't break in the team's favor early.


Prediction:

I don't expect a double digit win season from the Jets. In fact, I don't expect them to finish above .500. The combination of a difficult schedule, a weak receiving corps and inexperience at the QB position will sink the team's playoff hopes. 8 wins may be generous. A season with as few as 5 wins would not shock me.



P.S.: If anyone would like to breakdown other NFL teams, please feel free to do so. If not, I'll do my best to get to every team before the season begins, but I can't make any promises that I'll be able to do so. Also, please keep in mind that late developments can have significant effects upon a team and a change in the predictions of people making them. The signing of Burress would dramatically improve this team's receiving corps, just for an example.

I see it about the same way. I don't see nearly enough strengths to overcome the QB/WR deficiencies. I think this team will be playing for the future very early, trying to build around the new QB. The question is whether they will accept that fate, given the swagger and ego that is coming out of North Jersey these days.
I think Ryan has some building blocks that could turn into a contender 3-4 years down the road IF Sanchez is the real deal, and I have a lot of doubts there. But, I don't know if the patience is there to see that through.

 

[AzPatsFan]

No matter what Pats think of Ratgini, he is a fairly decent, analytical, and dispassionate coach. I don't think he wanted Favre, but was the sacrificial goat after leading the JEST to two winning seasons out of three, when Favre failed. Mangini was improving the Jets but that is done.

WReXcks appears to be a clown; the Jest now have no QB, having cut Penny and provided the AFCE winner with a free starting QB. Sanchez may be a Harrington or Couch before he learns what is going on. Tannenbaum is not a great GM,and quite willing to sell his Mother to survive and the owner is concerned about PSLs, and not the product on the Field.

2009: 5-11.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I think the Jets will surprise a few here and win 9 or 10 games

If the defense plays as well as I think they are capable of by seeing some very good talent and some all pros in there,I think they can hide the deficiences of the offense and should give them wins that come in low scoring games like 17-10 or 14-7 ect:,The games that they lose will be due to lack of scoring as it looks now to me,I don't expect teams to roll big numbers on them,at least not too often.

I see the Jets team playing something like the Ravens did in 2008 which was with an average offense and a good defense,However the difference would be that the Jets are not capable of winning as many games as Tennessee did last season and will lose several close games,especially early in the season.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Jets will be lucky to score 10 points per game. I give them 3-5 wins.

 

[Ring 6]

I think the Jets will surprise a few here and win 9 or 10 games

If the defense plays as well as I think they are capable of by seeing some very good talent and some all pros in there,I think they can hide the deficiences of the offense and should give them wins that come in low scoring games like 17-10 or 14-7 ect:,The games that they lose will be due to lack of scoring as it looks now to me,I don't expect teams to roll big numbers on them,at least not too often.

I see the Jets team playing something like the Ravens did in 2008 which was with an average offense and a good defense,However the difference would be that the Jets are not capable of winning as many games as Tennessee did last season and will lose several close games,especially early in the season.

How many 17-14 and 14-7 games are there in the NFL? You are expecting the Jets to win 9 or 10 of them? I wouldn't be shocked if there were 10 games won last year with 17 points or less scored by the winning team, by the entire AFC combined, much less by one team.
I don't know why we have a board that thinks the Jets who ranked 16th in yards and 18th on points allowed the 85 Bears reincarnated, and our defense that ranked 10th and 8th is terrible.
You do realize you have criticized our defense a lot, and you just said that the Jets (with no offense to keep them off the field btw) who were below average in allowing points and allowed 47 more than the Pats "bad" defense did, are going to win 9 or 10 games on defense alone.
What am I missing? Did Bart Scott impress you that much when he was acting like a 3 year old against us?

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

How many 17-14 and 14-7 games are there in the NFL? You are expecting the Jets to win 9 or 10 of them? I wouldn't be shocked if there were 10 games won last year with 17 points or less scored by the winning team, by the entire AFC combined, much less by one team.
I don't know why we have a board that thinks the Jets who ranked 16th in yards and 18th on points allowed the 85 Bears reincarnated, and our defense that ranked 10th and 8th is terrible.
You do realize you have criticized our defense a lot, and you just said that the Jets (with no offense to keep them off the field btw) who were below average in allowing points and allowed 47 more than the Pats "bad" defense did, are going to win 9 or 10 games on defense alone.
What am I missing? Did Bart Scott impress you that much when he was acting like a 3 year old against us?

Rex will have the defense playing better than it did under Mangini and I think thats not a big longshot for this to occur.

Unless the Pats generate a good pass rusher out of 4 OLB youngsters opposite Adalius,that could be trouble if no one comes forward as a true starter.

Lets be honest here Andy,You like others here hate the Jets and are very biased in that hate,You want them to suffer and go 8-8 or worse every year and even though they may not win 9 or 10 games like I say they will, they will win some,like it or not.- and this is coming from a Patriots fan that does not like the Jets at all.

Without the team in pads or even played a game,this team reminds me a lot of the type of roster Baltimore had last season,Whether that comes to pass we shall see - But don't act stupid like you know what the future holds for ANY NFL team unless your a psychic with proven world ability and only basing stuff from 2008. - Everyone in here is GUESSING about ANY team at this point.

Sometimes the biggest problem that happens in this forum is people saying what will happen BEFORE anything happens instead of basing an opinion or guess on the future and if someone disagrees with yours its wrong because they think they know what will happen based on worthless stats from the previous season which have absolutely no meaning of this year with different players and coaches - To say you are right and every one else is wrong is pure dumb IMO

 

[Ring 6]

I think the Jets will surprise a few here and win 9 or 10 games

If the defense plays as well as I think they are capable of by seeing some very good talent and some all pros in there,I think they can hide the deficiences of the offense and should give them wins that come in low scoring games like 17-10 or 14-7 ect:,The games that they lose will be due to lack of scoring as it looks now to me,I don't expect teams to roll big numbers on them,at least not too often.

I see the Jets team playing something like the Ravens did in 2008 which was with an average offense and a good defense,However the difference would be that the Jets are not capable of winning as many games as Tennessee did last season and will lose several close games,especially early in the season.

Last years Jets defense was ranked 18th in the league, below average in points allowed.
Last years Jets did not win a single game where they scored 17 or fewer points.
Last years Jets did LOSE 2 games where they allowed 17 or fewer.
Being 'like the Ravens' won't help the Ravens won 1 game where they scored 17 or fewer and AVERAGED 30.3 points per game in their wins.
In fact the Jets had only 1 win (20) where they scored fewer than 26 points.

Oh, and the Patriots won twice when they scored 17 or less.

As far as 'rolling big numbers' the Jets allowed 24 or more points in half of their games last season.

I just dont see any evidence to support your prediction, either that any defense could be good enough to win 9-10 games with that offense, or that the Jets defense would even be one of the top 15 choices to do it if it could be done.
Please explain why you feel they went from below average to dominant, and possibly the best defense ever seen. (The 2000 Ravens won 4 times when they scored 17 or less, the 1985 Bears 2 times)

 

[tombonneau]

I see it about the same way. I don't see nearly enough strengths to overcome the QB/WR deficiencies. I think this team will be playing for the future very early, trying to build around the new QB. The question is whether they will accept that fate, given the swagger and ego that is coming out of North Jersey these days.
I think Ryan has some building blocks that could turn into a contender 3-4 years down the road IF Sanchez is the real deal, and I have a lot of doubts there. But, I don't know if the patience is there to see that through.

I agree. The Jets will be a classic no-margin-for-error team. Once they are down in a game and need to pass, they are toast. But if they can play D, establish the run, they'll be competitive.

Really just depends on how good the D can play. But if the track record of alleged offensive/defensive coordinator "gurus" who become HCs is any indicator, the alleged genius of these OC/DCs resided in the players & scheme of their former team.

Seems like every "offensive genius" (Billick, Childress) can't translate that "genius" to the other teams, and ditto the defensive ones (Marvin Lewis, Dungy, Nolan).

In fact, I think the track record of the Ds of former Raven DCs (Lewis, Nolan) should give Jets fans some pause.

 

[Ring 6]

Rex will have the defense playing better than it did under Mangini and I think thats not a big longshot for this to occur.

Unless the Pats generate a good pass rusher out of 4 OLB youngsters opposite Adalius,that could be trouble if no one comes forward as a true starter.

Lets be honest here Andy,You like others here hate the Jets and are very biased in that hate,You want them to suffer and go 8-8 or worse every year and even though they may not win 9 or 10 games like I say they will, they will win some,like it or not.- and this is coming from a Patriots fan that does not like the Jets at all.

Without the team in pads or even played a game,this team reminds me a lot of the type of roster Baltimore had last season,Whether that comes to pass we shall see - But don't act stupid like you know what the future holds for ANY NFL team unless your a psychic with proven world ability and only basing stuff from 2008. - Everyone in here is GUESSING about ANY team at this point.

Sometimes the biggest problem that happens in this forum is people saying what will happen BEFORE anything happens instead of basing an opinion or guess on the future and if someone disagrees with yours its wrong because they think they know what will happen based on worthless stats from the previous season which have absolutely no meaning of this year with different players and coaches - To say you are right and every one else is wrong is pure dumb IMO

So Rex Ryan will turn them from below average to dominant just by being there?
How do they remind you of the Ravens?
Who is their Terrell Suggs? Hali Ngota? Ed Reed? Ray Lewis? Trevor Price?
Where is there almost 2400 rushing yards coming from?
Its inane to say they brought a coach from Baltimore so they are Baltimore. How did that work out for Marvin Lewis or Mike Nolan?

What does the Patriots pass rush have to do with the Jet defense? But since you asked who is going to rush the passer for your juggernaut?


By the way, the starting point is that the Patriots defense was better than the Jets last year. We wouldn't have won 9-10 games with Mark Sanchez at QB. So "Rex will have them playing better than Mangini" doesn't cut it for me, because to do what you say "Win 9-10 games with a bad offense, by winning a lot of them 17-14 and 14-7" would take, probably the best defense in the last 30 years of the NFL.

Finally, I have absolutely no clue how you can comment that 'Sometimes the biggest problem that happens in this forum is people saying what will happen BEFORE anything happens instead of basing an opinion or guess on the future and if someone disagrees with yours its wrong because they think they know what will happen based on worthless stats from the previous season which have absolutely no meaning of this year with different players and coaches - To say you are right and every one else is wrong is pure dumb IMO'
When you made a prediction and I gave a response pointing out the flaw in it. Why make it if it is pointless.

 

[Ring 6]

I agree. The Jets will be a classic no-margin-for-error team. Once they are down in a game and need to pass, they are toast. But if they can play D, establish the run, they'll be competitive.

Really just depends on how good the D can play. But if the track record of alleged offensive/defensive coordinator "gurus" who become HCs is any indicator, the alleged genius of these OC/DCs resided in the players & scheme of their former team.

Seems like every "offensive genius" (Billick, Childress) can't translate that "genius" to the other teams, and ditto the defensive ones (Marvin Lewis, Dungy, Nolan).

In fact, I think the track record of the Ds of former Raven DCs (Lewis, Nolan) should give Jets fans some pause.

Not to mention the fact that everyone seems to want to ignore: The Jets defense wasn't good last year.

Sign into this board and you can see tons of deragatory comments about our defense that was in the top 25% of scoring defenses, yet nothing but glowing praise, respect, even fear toward the Jets 18th ranked, below average defense.
How does that happen?

 

[TriplecHamp]

Maddd Disrespect to the Jets in this thread.....I am saying 8-9 Wins.

 

[Ring 6]

Maddd Disrespect to the Jets in this thread.....I am saying 8-9 Wins.

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Last years Jets defense was ranked 18th in the league, below average in points allowed.
Last years Jets did not win a single game where they scored 17 or fewer points.
Last years Jets did LOSE 2 games where they allowed 17 or fewer.
Being 'like the Ravens' won't help the Ravens won 1 game where they scored 17 or fewer and AVERAGED 30.3 points per game in their wins.
In fact the Jets had only 1 win (20) where they scored fewer than 26 points.

Oh, and the Patriots won twice when they scored 17 or less.

As far as 'rolling big numbers' the Jets allowed 24 or more points in half of their games last season.

I just dont see any evidence to support your prediction, either that any defense could be good enough to win 9-10 games with that offense, or that the Jets defense would even be one of the top 15 choices to do it if it could be done.
Please explain why you feel they went from below average to dominant, and possibly the best defense ever seen. (The 2000 Ravens won 4 times when they scored 17 or less, the 1985 Bears 2 times)

Where did I say they will have a dominant defense? - I think they will have a very formidable one and one that will probably be ranked within the top 10 best defenses,They do have some weaknesses but a load of talent as well - If those talented players playas they should only a blind man would see they will be pretty tough - Will a strong Defense drastically improve a team in 1 year? - I certainly think it COULD.

I really wish you would stop referring back to what teams did in previous years - its irrelevant.

You know as well as I do that every year some teams that were not so good in 2007 became good in 2008 and some teams that were good in 2007 were not so good in 2008 - I just think the Jets will be improved on the defensive side and improved enough to keep their average offense in many games even though their offense lacks a true WR and when your defense can keep your team in games you have a decent chance to win.

 

[K-Ro 25]

Not to mention the fact that everyone seems to want to ignore: The Jets defense wasn't good last year.

Sign into this board and you can see tons of deragatory comments about our defense that was in the top 25% of scoring defenses, yet nothing but glowing praise, respect, even fear toward the Jets 18th ranked, below average defense.
How does that happen?

A better coach IMO, Jim Leonhard, Lito Sheppard, and Bart Scott should equal a significantly better defense unless im missing something. I dont have them anywhere near dominant and dont even consider them a top ten D however I think they will be a good D with upside. Right now I have us winning 6 game borderline 7. Our rushing attack is more then good enough to play the grind i out style of play but the thing that no one ever talks about which frustrates me ifs that we have no punting game to win the field position game. Someone made a comment earlier abopu the jets rushing attack compared to the Ravens and imo its not close were better then them at running the ball. However at the end of the day I feel the combination of a rookie QB + lack of WR's (even tho I like Keller a lot as a threat) + lack of depth on O & D-line will equal a 6,7 or tops 8 win year. Im perfectly fine with that b/c Sanchez showing potential and playing solid trumps any win total.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

So based on 2007 the Atlanta Falcons would suck in 2008 and based on 2007 the Miami Dolphins who had one of the worst defenses in that year would suck again in 2008...wait a minute ..ummm THEY MADE THE PLAYOFFS!

Andy do you realize how stupid your logic is here or do you think everyone who disagrees is wrong or how about some respect for others opinions like you should have?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

Sexy Rexy is magic, when he blows magic mushroom smoke up a guys skirt it gives him the "assets" of Ray Lewis so he to will be able to make more tackles than there are defensive plays in a season.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Based on.............................

They won 9 last year, and have replaced Favre and Coles with a rookie, and ???????
They won 9 with a defense that was below average.
How does that translate to winning 8-9 this year?
When Favre was playing poorly at the end of the season they were a 1-4 team.
DO you expect Mark Sanchez to be better in 2009 than Brett Favre was in 2008? That would be an interesting viewpoint.

Lets take a look at the schedule,
Sept 13...@Houston 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Sept 20 New England 1:00 PM (WCBS)-L
Sept 27 Tennessee 4:15 PM (WCBS)-L
Oct 4 @New Orleans 4:05 PM (WCBS)-W
Oct 12 @Miami 8:30 PM (ESPN)-L
Oct 18 Buffalo 4:15 PM (WCBS)-W
Oct 25 @Oakland 4:05 PM (WCBS)-W
Nov 1 Miami 1:00 PM (WCBS)-L
Bye Bye Bye
Nov 15 Jacksonville 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Nov 22 @New England 4:15 PM (WCBS)-L
Nov 29 Carolina 1:00 PM (FOX)-L
Dec 3 @Buffalo 8:20 PM (NFL)-W
Dec 13 @Tampa Bay 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Dec 20 Atlanta 1:00 PM (FOX)-W
Dec 27 @Indianapolis 4:15 PM (WCBS)-L
Jan 3 Cincinnati 1:00 PM (WCBS)-W
Those are nine games on their schedule that I think they can and will win. I think they will be better on defense and I also think that they wont ask to much of Sanchez. Much like what the Ravens did last year with flacco. The Jets have the best run game in the division (IMO) with Jones, Washington, now Green. I also don't think that any QB can play as bad as Favre did at the end of last season