Bledsoe or Cassel

[Ring 6]

And? He threw an INT.



Bottom line: do I think Cassel of 2008 could have played as well as Bledsoe in a key spot (i.e. the 2001 AFC Championship)? No, I don't.

I think the problem with agreement here is you think Bledose played well in that game and most other fans do not.

 

[Ring 6]

Here is the issue; how can you ask people to respect somone else when the bottom line is they don't even respect themselves.

As a result, you are asking too much with that request, although I agree with it 100%.

Kick somone when they are down, it's what society does today.

Can't wait for some jackass to come on here and say he'd rather have Mirer than Bledsoe, the haters always hate and just can't let it go.

And the point I tried to make with the 2001 SB and Bledsoe telling Brady "F that, just chuck the ball" was Drew was pulling for the guy, not pouting on the sidelines.

I DID NOT MEAN HE WAS TRYING TO ONE UP THE COACHES OR ASK BRADY TO DISREGARD WHAT THE COACHES TOLD HIM TO DO.

IT WAS NOT MEANT IN THE LITERAL SENSE.

Christ, some of you need to get an effin life.

These were your words:


If the first play went nowhere (and it almost did as Brady almost got sacked but dumped the ball off to JR Redmond), Brady was instructed to just let the clock run down and play for overtime.

Drew told him to do otherwise.



How am I supposed to take that? It a figurative sense? As a joke? You were arguing about Bledsoe value to that Championship. These words were CLEARLY meant to say Bledsoe overrode the coaching staff and Brady chose to listen to Drew.


As far as the rest, what in the world are you talking about?
Do you respond like that when anyone says anything negative about anybody? Or just Drew.
How does me having a lesser opinion of his ability that you mean I dont respect him or myself? That is whacky. How am I 'kicking him when he is down'? I am assessing his play as the patriots QB.
A 'hater' is negative about everything and everyone, not honest about their assessment, even if its bad.

 

[BOSTN BEANER]

So now Drew Bledsoe gets credit for 'coaching' (your words originally) Brady and making his the GOAT by playing horribly and teaching him what not to do?
I guess all of the Lions backups are going to the Hall of Fame.
No one trapped Bledsoe into his comments and no one misquoted him, the entire interview was shown for all to see. Your position is that Bledsoe is a wonderful human being who contributed to the success by not complaining (as if that is doing something special...by the way, he had absolutely no right to complain) but now you are accepting that he complained but blaming his complaining on someone else. Wow.

i never said that brady learned EVERYTHING by watching bledsoe make mistakes but u cant deny that it does help some qbs to sit and watch a starting qb in the nfl for a year or two.. by u saying that i said it made Brady the GOAT is u putting words in my mouth.. i said it helped him learn i never said he learned everything he knows because of Bledsoe.. i just think if u say he didnt learn anything by sitting behind Bledsoe and watching him throw dumb passes for a year and 2 or 3 games whatever it was when Bledsoe got hurt that ur crazy.. he definately had to learn something from Bledsoe.. and i have videos on the patriots 2001 championship dvd that has bledsoe saying to the media nothing in the NFL is promised and hes gona support the team all the way.. it also has video showing him calling plays on the sideline and talking to Brady about what plays he likes and dislikes.. so for u to blow off him "coaching" brady just seems weird to me cuz its on tape for everyone to see...

 

[Patjew]

i never said that brady learned EVERYTHING by watching bledsoe make mistakes but u cant deny that it does help some qbs to sit and watch a starting qb in the nfl for a year or two.. by u saying that i said it made Brady the GOAT is u putting words in my mouth.. i said it helped him learn i never said he learned everything he knows because of Bledsoe.. i just think if u say he didnt learn anything by sitting behind Bledsoe and watching him throw dumb passes for a year and 2 or 3 games whatever it was when Bledsoe got hurt that ur crazy.. he definately had to learn something from Bledsoe.. and i have videos on the patriots 2001 championship dvd that has bledsoe saying to the media nothing in the NFL is promised and hes gona support the team all the way.. it also has video showing him calling plays on the sideline and talking to Brady about what plays he likes and dislikes.. so for u to blow off him "coaching" brady just seems weird to me cuz its on tape for everyone to see...

That was preseason and garbage time.

 

[BOSTN BEANER]

That was preseason and garbage time.

how do u know this?

 

[Patjew]

how do u know this?

Because I saw the same video as you did. That part when Drew was asking Tom what plays he likes and dislikes and was joking about Tom wanting to get on TV was in 2001 preseason.

Anyway, do you really think that Drew was calling any meaningful plays instead of Weiss that year?

 

[BOSTN BEANER]

Because I saw the same video as you did. That part when Drew was asking Tom what plays he likes and dislikes and was joking about Tom wanting to get on TV was in 2001 preseason.

Anyway, do you really think that Drew was calling any meaningful plays instead of Weiss that year?

yea i ur right there is no reason why he would call any meaningful plays that season or any other season while weis was there for that matter.

 

[Patjew]

yea i ur right there is no reason why he would call any meaningful plays that season or any other season while weis was there for that matter.

BTW, I assumed that the video you saw was from the America's Game: 2001 video. If not, my B.

 

[BOSTN BEANER]

BTW, I assumed that the video you saw was from the America's Game: 2001 video. If not, my B.

Its from the SI DVD that came with SI subscription after the pats win the superbowl every year.. its not the America's Game: 2001 video but its the same clip, cuz he is joking about Tom wanting to throw the ball just to get on TV in this one too.. it might be the same DVD just named different for SI and for stores that sell DVDs... either way though ur talkin about the same clip as i was..

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

I think the problem with agreement here is you think Bledose played well in that game and most other fans do not.

I'm not sure i understand why you, and others think Drew played poorly. Let me understand this, and feel free to correct me.

The one time starter, who was injured in wk 2 (a serious injury, that also caused strength, and weight issues) comes off the bench in the AFCCG. He then throws some aweful passes mixed in with some beauties, and the team advances to the SB. This is a bad performance by your standards? The backup, who hasnt played in a game since wk 2????? Now, reading yours, and Molewisrocks' comments. It sounds like you feel Drew was nothing more than a backup quality QB after 98. So, im just not understanding how that AFCCG was a poor performance for a BACKUP QB. It took Matt Cassel half the season to really get his game going. I don't see Matt having the success in that AFCCG that Drew had. And no, im not saying Drew won the game all by himself. That was a great team win.

As i've stated before, I would take Cassel based off the original question. This is just not an offense that Drew could run, and run well like Tom. I also agree with what MO was saying about Drew after 98. Unlike some folks on here, im not unaware of Drews shortcomings, but if some of the haters are just going to make sh*t up, then I will defend Drew. He did alot for this franchise, and doesnt deserve some of the crap thats said about him here.

 

[Patjew]

I'm not sure i understand why you, and others think Drew played poorly. Let me understand this, and feel free to correct me.

The one time starter, who was injured in wk 2 (a serious injury, that also caused strength, and weight issues) comes off the bench in the AFCCG. He then throws some aweful passes mixed in with some beauties, and the team advances to the SB. This is a bad performance by your standards? The backup, who hasnt played in a game since wk 2????? Now, reading yours, and Molewisrocks' comments. It sounds like you feel Drew was nothing more than a backup quality QB after 98. So, im just not understanding how that AFCCG was a poor performance for a BACKUP QB. It took Matt Cassel half the season to really get his game going. I don't see Matt having the success in that AFCCG that Drew had. And no, im not saying Drew won the game all by himself. That was a great team win.

As i've stated before, I would take Cassel based off the original question. This is just not an offense that Drew could run, and run well like Tom. I also agree with what MO was saying about Drew after 98. Unlike some folks on here, im not unaware of Drews shortcomings, but if some of the haters are just going to make sh*t up, then I will defend Drew. He did alot for this franchise, and doesnt deserve some of the crap thats said about him here.

I don't think Drew is criticized as much for his passes as for his decision making during that game.

I don't know if anyone here actually hates Drew. I definitely don't, even if he did drive me crazy sometimes.

Anyway, special teams won that game for us, regardless of who played QB.

 

[BradyFTW!]

I'm not sure i understand why you, and others think Drew played poorly. Let me understand this, and feel free to correct me.

The one time starter, who was injured in wk 2 (a serious injury, that also caused strength, and weight issues) comes off the bench in the AFCCG. He then throws some aweful passes mixed in with some beauties, and the team advances to the SB. This is a bad performance by your standards? The backup, who hasnt played in a game since wk 2????? Now, reading yours, and Molewisrocks' comments. It sounds like you feel Drew was nothing more than a backup quality QB after 98. So, im just not understanding how that AFCCG was a poor performance for a BACKUP QB. It took Matt Cassel half the season to really get his game going. I don't see Matt having the success in that AFCCG that Drew had. And no, im not saying Drew won the game all by himself. That was a great team win.

As i've stated before, I would take Cassel based off the original question. This is just not an offense that Drew could run, and run well like Tom. I also agree with what MO was saying about Drew after 98. Unlike some folks on here, im not unaware of Drews shortcomings, but if some of the haters are just going to make sh*t up, then I will defend Drew. He did alot for this franchise, and doesnt deserve some of the crap thats said about him here.

He made some good passes and some ill-advised ones. That's what Bledsoe always did- it's the type of QB that he was, and that's that. Favre's exactly the same way, and he's going to ride triumphantly into the hall of fame if he ever gets around to retiring, so it is what it is.

That said, quite a few people here recognize that that style of quarterbacking was fundamentally opposed to what Belichick wanted from his offense. If Brady is the ideal of what Belichick wants in a QB, then Bledsoe was borderline the opposite of that. That's a large part of why I think this whole idea that Bledsoe mentored Brady and coached from the bench ridiculous. The Pats had someone calling plays, and it wasn't Bledsoe. That was Charlie Weis's job. And the most lasting impact that Bledsoe could have made on Brady from a mentoring level was pretty much showing him what not to do in many situations. In 2001, Brady was already a more intelligent, cerebral quarterback than Bledsoe was.

Don't get me wrong, Bledsoe was a good QB in his time, and he gave the Pats a lot of really good years. We became respectable with him as our QB, for the first time in quite a while, and that was awesome. Still, when you're talking about the 2000s, he just wasn't the kind of QB that Belichick wanted, and that's why he never got his job back once Brady proved himself. Cassel may be a lesser player overall, but he has the traits that Belichick requires from his QBs.

Here is the issue; how can you ask people to respect somone else when the bottom line is they don't even respect themselves.

As a result, you are asking too much with that request, although I agree with it 100%.

Kick somone when they are down, it's what society does today.

Can't wait for some jackass to come on here and say he'd rather have Mirer than Bledsoe, the haters always hate and just can't let it go.

And the point I tried to make with the 2001 SB and Bledsoe telling Brady "F that, just chuck the ball" was Drew was pulling for the guy, not pouting on the sidelines.

I DID NOT MEAN HE WAS TRYING TO ONE UP THE COACHES OR ASK BRADY TO DISREGARD WHAT THE COACHES TOLD HIM TO DO.

IT WAS NOT MEANT IN THE LITERAL SENSE.

Christ, some of you need to get an effin life.

General rule of thumb: when you get so frustrated and worked up that you're typing in ALLCAPS out of pure anger, it's probably you that ought to turn off the computer for a few. Seriously, I think you'd understand where everyone else is coming from on this if you let go of whatever emotional attachment you have to the issue for a bit. You're perceiving some agenda to tear down Bledsoe where there just isn't one. Nobody's trying to be calculating or malicious here, we're simply stating a pretty dry and simple opinion: that Bledsoe was not the right QB for Belichick's philosophy. That's it.

 

[italian pat patriot]

Drew Bledsoe was so important after his draft pick: he created hopes in a bad moment for the franchise; with his arrival we were competitive

i consider him the 2nd best qb the Pats ever had after the 'obvious' Tom Brady

this is the reason why if also he destroyed me in some games (i.e: 1997 loss in the play-offs @ Pit) he gave me big emotions too

i was and i will be always a Drew Bledsoe fan

Cassel was surely good...yes...for 1 year but Bledsoe was our franchise qb for a long time

all the best to Drew

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

He made some good passes and some ill-advised ones. That's what Bledsoe always did- it's the type of QB that he was, and that's that. Favre's exactly the same way, and he's going to ride triumphantly into the hall of fame if he ever gets around to retiring, so it is what it is.

That said, quite a few people here recognize that that style of quarterbacking was fundamentally opposed to what Belichick wanted from his offense. If Brady is the ideal of what Belichick wants in a QB, then Bledsoe was borderline the opposite of that. That's a large part of why I think this whole idea that Bledsoe mentored Brady and coached from the bench ridiculous. The Pats had someone calling plays, and it wasn't Bledsoe. That was Charlie Weis's job. And the most lasting impact that Bledsoe could have made on Brady from a mentoring level was pretty much showing him what not to do in many situations. In 2001, Brady was already a more intelligent, cerebral quarterback than Bledsoe was.

Don't get me wrong, Bledsoe was a good QB in his time, and he gave the Pats a lot of really good years. We became respectable with him as our QB, for the first time in quite a while, and that was awesome. Still, when you're talking about the 2000s, he just wasn't the kind of QB that Belichick wanted, and that's why he never got his job back once Brady proved himself. Cassel may be a lesser player overall, but he has the traits that Belichick requires from his QBs.

No argument here. I agree with what you said.

 

[JonVaughnTD]

Bledsoe, and it's not even close.

If Bledsoe had been just a bit luckier with a couple different things he'd be a lock for the HOF.

 

[Patjew]

all the best to Drew

I think we can all agree on that.

I dare someone to find me a Drew Blesdoe hater here. I don't think you can.

 

[upstater1]

I think the problem with agreement here is you think Bledose played well in that game and most other fans do not.

I agree that we have different assessments. I do not think most other fans disagree with me however. I can remember people thinking Drew came in solidly as a backup and performed rather well. He had 2 excellent quarters, just excellent, and one bad one. In a big spot like an AFC Championship, that's all I could expect from a backup, and certainly more than I could expect from Cassel. I really could not see Cassel doing as well against the Steelers in the 2nd and 4th quarters.

 

[p8ryts]

Drew Bledsoe was so important after his draft pick: he created hopes in a bad moment for the franchise; with his arrival we were competitive

i consider him the 2nd best qb the Pats ever had after the 'obvious' Tom Brady

this is the reason why if also he destroyed me in some games (i.e: 1997 loss in the play-offs @ Pit) he gave me big emotions too

i was and i will be always a Drew Bledsoe fan

Cassel was surely good...yes...for 1 year but Bledsoe was our franchise qb for a long time

all the best to Drew

omg an intelligent post, thank you

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I agree that we have different assessments. I do not think most other fans disagree with me however. I can remember people thinking Drew came in solidly as a backup and performed rather well. He had 2 excellent quarters, just excellent, and one bad one. In a big spot like an AFC Championship, that's all I could expect from a backup, and certainly more than I could expect from Cassel. I really could not see Cassel doing as well against the Steelers in the 2nd and 4th quarters.

He played for 2 minutes in the second quarter. And he finished an existing drive. He played well enough in that brief segment. He did not have two excellent, just excellent quarters per the guy who assesses them all. He played poorly, made some bad decisions and some poor throws, but didn't ultimately make a costly mistake, and because the Steelers and their QB continued to we didn't need more than that from the position. He also completed a couple of quality throws in the process. Drew could do that. Follow orders for short stretches. Then the ego would override better judgement. The guy who assessed them all also understood that. That is why the unheralded first year player drafted 198 places later started the following week on an ankle that required more than a good tape job.

At that point Brady was essentially Cassel on a bad ankle and Bill chose to stick with him in the biggest game of his career, his first SB as a HC. BB was not charitably assessing Bledsoe as a backup because he wasn't one, nor would he ever be because of that same ego, he was a 9 year veteran NFL starter and being assessed accordingly. And as such he could not start here any longer because he could not run this offense the way BB dictated it be run, with discipline and accountability, while his former first year backup could.

Cassel wasn't a 9 year veteran starter when he stepped in. He hadn't started a game anywhere since HS. Yet by week 10 it was clear he could run this offense the way BB envisioned it. So, given the choice of a 9 year veteran capable of having his moments and a first year player who was grasping the system and consistently executing within it, nine years later BB would choose door #2 as his backup to Brady whatever the situation or circumstance. He would also never choose to again work with a player with whom he could not have a productive working relationship if there was a viable alternative. Cassel would be that viable alternative in the situation the OP presented, backup to Brady on an all decade team.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm not sure i understand why you, and others think Drew played poorly. Let me understand this, and feel free to correct me.

The one time starter, who was injured in wk 2 (a serious injury, that also caused strength, and weight issues) comes off the bench in the AFCCG. He then throws some aweful passes mixed in with some beauties, and the team advances to the SB. This is a bad performance by your standards? The backup, who hasnt played in a game since wk 2????? Now, reading yours, and Molewisrocks' comments. It sounds like you feel Drew was nothing more than a backup quality QB after 98. So, im just not understanding how that AFCCG was a poor performance for a BACKUP QB. It took Matt Cassel half the season to really get his game going. I don't see Matt having the success in that AFCCG that Drew had. And no, im not saying Drew won the game all by himself. That was a great team win.

As i've stated before, I would take Cassel based off the original question. This is just not an offense that Drew could run, and run well like Tom. I also agree with what MO was saying about Drew after 98. Unlike some folks on here, im not unaware of Drews shortcomings, but if some of the haters are just going to make sh*t up, then I will defend Drew. He did alot for this franchise, and doesnt deserve some of the crap thats said about him here.

Because I dont judge playing well or not by adding up all of the excuses you listed. You play well or you play poorly. I dont think playing poorly because of all the reasons you listed equals playing well. Certainly it may explain why the player played poorly, although in this case he was fully recovered, but he still played poorly.

He came in with a 1st and 10 on the Pitt 40, and finshed the TD drive at the end of the first half. Good drive 3/3 36 yards.
In the second half, his numbers were 7/18 for 66 yards. The offense scored 3 points.
The total offense in the second half was 36 plays for 81 yards.
How under any circumstances is that playing well?
Just because we won the game doesn't mean he played well.