Riess interview: Butler or English ?........#23

[reflexblue]

I hope this isn't old news i saw a Riess interview on esbs. When asked who he thought the pats would take at #23 he said Butler or English, but that B. Pettigrew was someone they might look at, even at 23 since they have taken TE's in the first before. Reiss was presenting it (Pettigrew ) as you never know with BB........ Jerron Gilbert in the 2nd rnd because of the number of D-lineman up for new contracts at the end of the season.
He listed they're needs as LB, DB, DL in that order.
__________________

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Riess interview: Butler........#23

Butler, English, Pettigrew, Moreno, maybe D. Brown, T. Jackson, they're on my likely list (of those who could be there).

 

[TriplecHamp]

Re: Riess interview: Butler........#23

Butler, English, Pettigrew, Moreno, maybe D. Brown, T. Jackson, they're on my likely list (of those who could be there).

Im telling you if Moreno is there and the value is right I think BB would take him.

 

[reflexblue]

Re: Riess interview: Butler........#23

Im telling you if Moreno is there and the value is right I think BB would take him.

I don't think he will take a RB at 23 our situation is sufficiant at that position. I think were looking at defense at this spot. I can't see BB taking another RB in the first since he spent the same pick same spot on Maroney just 3 years ago.

 

[14thDragon]

Re: Riess interview: Butler........#23

Im telling you if Moreno is there and the value is right I think BB would take him.

I think BB would take him and would it be a mistake as large as bringing in that big Wooden Horse. Unless he is going to be converted to defense, specifically DB or OLB, then the real value is not there.

 

[carolinatony]

"Im telling you if Moreno is there and the value is right I think BB would take him."

He is a good RB but I hope we go defense with the first few picks. We need to get 2 solid players on defense this draft imo.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Great debate
NFL evaluators split on how Northern Illinois' English will perform in pros

By Seth Gruen
April 7, 2009

When it comes to Larry English, scouts play a game of "he said, she said." He was too productive in college to pass on as a late first-round pick. He’s too small. His quickness is undeniable. He will get dominated by bigger blockers.

The list goes on …

He’s a linebacker. No, he’s a defensive end. The Northern Illinois grad would be better in a 4-3 scheme. No, he would excel in an odd front.

In fact, the 23-year-old has so many unanswered questions regarding his draft stock that teams have him graded anywhere between a first- and sixth-round prospect.

 

[PatsDparty]

I think with so many picks, BB will definitely take the BPA (for the team's system) at 23. If Moreno is much higher on his draft board then any of the DE/OLB (he may rank English/Barwin etc next to some of the guys that he can get in the late 2nd round or 3rd round), he'll take him.

Nothing seems wrongw with the RBs this year, but looking to next year and beyond, Maroney is a ? mark, Faulk is getting up there, Taylor has probably 1-2 good years left, and while Morris is a good back, I wouldn't build my committee around him (he's a valuable piece though). I'm hoping we take Defense, but I would not be surprised if he took Moreno.

 

[p8ryts]

Most glaring need is pass rush. If English can be the answer, select him. Good DB's and maybe even Butler will be available in second round. I don't think Pettigrew will happen. Doesn't mean we don't need TE's because I believe there will be a TE turnover next year.

 

[condon84]

If we pick Pettigrew, that' be a "WTF" moment. Granted, we've taken TEs in the first round before, but it's hard to make an argument for a TE with Chris Baker still being under 30 and I believe we will keep either Thomas or Watson, since both seems like they won't break the bank for new contracts (especially Thomas). That's two solid starting TEs, why use up a first round pick? Unless they project a TE to be the next Tony Gonzalez, which seems unlikely.

I could see the argument for RB and WRs. Both positions have question marks for the future. Maroney is a question mark and Morris/Taylor/Faulk is not our future. It really depends on how the team views Green-Ellis. Is he someone that can be part of a 1-2 punch along with Maroney? Is Maroney more suited to be a third down back and take over Faulk once he retires?

We also need to start developing a WR. Moss has one year left after this coming season. Will he even be worth the salary cap hit the following year? Depending on how he plays and if his play declines he may not be here following next year. Is Lewis really the guy that takes his place? Galloway is a one year fix, maybe we squeeze another year out of him if Moss is deemed too expensive for his last year and Galloway is a cheaper option and the production is equal.

We've had an influx of young talent injected into our defense and it seems like Bill likes to mix young and old and not to go too young or too old on one particular unit. I believe we will add some talent on the defensive side of the ball, but I would not be surprised if we pick more offensive players than defensive players.

 

[mgteich]

Yes, Moreno would be taken if Belichick judges his value to the patriots "much higher on his draftboard thatn any of the DE/OLB's."

HOWEVER, I find this possibility to be extremely unlikely. And if Belichick projects this to be the case, he will trade up for a DE, OLB, LB or DE/OLB. The players are there.

To be clear, a RB wouldn't be a WTF moment for me. After all, we could still get a LB, DE and a S by the end of Day One. However, we have the opportunity for a clean defensive sweep in our first four picks (or in 4 of our first 5) getting us a top OLB, DE, ILB, and a SS.

I think with so many picks, BB will definitely take the BPA (for the team's system) at 23. If Moreno is much higher on his draft board then any of the DE/OLB (he may rank English/Barwin etc next to some of the guys that he can get in the late 2nd round or 3rd round), he'll take him.

Nothing seems wrongw with the RBs this year, but looking to next year and beyond, Maroney is a ? mark, Faulk is getting up there, Taylor has probably 1-2 good years left, and while Morris is a good back, I wouldn't build my committee around him (he's a valuable piece though). I'm hoping we take Defense, but I would not be surprised if he took Moreno.

 

[reflexblue]

I can only see BB taking Moreno if he has him listed in the top ten on his board. And moreno slides to #23.

 

[Revman]

I think Pat's will take:

1. 23- Evander Hood-DT-Missouri

2. 34- Larry English-OLB-N.Illinois

2. 47. Eric Wood- center-Louisvile

2. 58. Aaron Kelly- Wr- Clemson

3. 89. Sherrod Martin-cb/s-Troy

3. 97. Bear Pascoe-TE-Fresno St.

* An interesting version. I really believe Pat's will trade out of #34. I think they will still make a move for Peppers. I think these 6 guys would compete for jobs and depth until they were ready or Pat's needed them to play. I know I am missing a SS candidate early.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'm not a big fan of taking Ziggy Hood, not that he couldn't learn to play Belichick's way but he's a quickness, hit the gaps, plays on skates guy right now. His style doesn't excite me for what we'd ask him to do.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I hope this isn't old news i saw a Riess interview on esbs. When asked who he thought the pats would take at #23 he said Butler or English, but that B. Pettigrew was someone they might look at, even at 23 since they have taken TE's in the first before. Reiss was presenting it (Pettigrew ) as you never know with BB........ Jerron Gilbert in the 2nd rnd because of the number of D-lineman up for new contracts at the end of the season.
He listed they're needs as LB, DB, DL in that order.
__________________

I prefer Butler to English. I am not a fan of English's.

I like Butler's swagger and moxy, as well as his change of direction. I think he projects well as someone that can break on the ball out of our soft zone shell defense. He might need to gain 20 or so pounds of muscle forlong term success.

 

[DW Toys]

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

Box, What do you think about English? I have mixed feelings. As an OLB there might be better fits.
DW Toys

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box, What do you think about English? I have mixed feelings. As an OLB there might be better fits.
DW Toys

He's okay, a little short, a little stiff and slow. Decent strength, good edge rusher in the MAC, he's got potential to develop into a decent pass rusher in the NFL. He's got decent run defense technique. He's not going to be the best OLB option in coverage. I don't see him as much of an upgrade, if any, over Woods, Crable, Redd, and Craig. TBC was a stud, short DE at California, that appears to be English's floor. Mike Mayock seems to think his ceiling is Lamar Woodley - we just need to remember Pittsburgh's 3-4 is not the same as NE's, they tend to succeed with smaller Linebackers in their scheme.

 

[sebman2112]

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

I think that piece is inaccurate, and the quote in regard to his size was likely DE specific, as he is in no way undersized at 34 OLB.

Previously you gave your opinion of English, and I disagree with that opinion. The tape I've studied of Larry shows a player who is quick off the edge, possesses a good bull rush, tackles well in space, and plays intelligently. You also seemed to suggest Larry's success in the MAC might not translate to the NFL. While I understand that point, you should also realize that he was effective while facing the Tennessee's of the world, and wasn't simply a MAC warrior.

Also, I see the Woodley comparisons, and I was a big Woodley fan going into that draft. In my honest opinion, Larry's a more polished pass rusher, appears a little quicker, and has more room on his frame than Lamarr did in 2007. Let's take a look at their draft season numbers just to further the comparison:

Lamarr:6'1.4" 266lbs
38.5" vertical (PD), 4.74 forty (PD), 9'9" broad jump, 1.65 ten-split, 4.42 shuttle (PD)
Larry: 6'2.1" 255lbs
36" vertical (C), 4.62 forty (PD), 9'7" broad jump, 1.59 ten-split, 4.38 shuttle (C)
With Larry you've got the slightly taller, and faster player, while Lamarr's slightly stronger at 266lbs.

As you may have already guessed, I'd be more than happy to see Larry English in a Patriots uniform.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I think that piece is inaccurate, and the quote in regard to his size was likely DE specific, as he is in no way undersized at 34 OLB.

Previously you gave your opinion of English, and I disagree with that opinion. The tape I've studied of Larry shows a player who is quick off the edge, possesses a good bull rush, tackles well in space, and plays intelligently. You also seemed to suggest Larry's success in the MAC might not translate to the NFL. While I understand that point, you should also realize that he was effective while facing the Tennessee's of the world, and wasn't simply a MAC warrior.

Also, I see the Woodley comparisons, and I was a big Woodley fan going into that draft. In my honest opinion, Larry's a more polished pass rusher, appears a little quicker, and has more room on his frame than Lamarr did in 2007. Let's take a look at their draft season numbers just to further the comparison:

Lamarr:6'1.4" 266lbs
38.5" vertical (PD), 4.74 forty (PD), 9'9" broad jump, 1.65 ten-split, 4.42 shuttle (PD)
Larry: 6'2.1" 255lbs
36" vertical (C), 4.62 forty (PD), 9'7" broad jump, 1.59 ten-split, 4.38 shuttle (C)
With Larry you've got the slightly taller, and faster player, while Lamarr's slightly stronger at 266lbs.

As you may have already guessed, I'd be more than happy to see Larry English in a Patriots uniform.

Unfortunately Pittsburgh and New England do not use their OLB's to do the same thing. And while English might work in our defense, their is a lot of projecting that needs to be done before BB takes the kid.

 

[sebman2112]

Unfortunately Pittsburgh and New England do not use their OLB's to do the same thing.

Fortunately, I was already aware of the system differences, and it's a point that doesn't impact my opinion of Larry.

Also, While the Steelers OLB's might not have as much coverage responsibilities, they do drop into coverage. The Steelers currently use more blitz packages, but NE's OLB's must get after the QB as well.

And while English might work in our defense, their is a lot of projecting that needs to be done before BB takes the kid.

As is the case with every college DE/OLB convert in the draft.