Defense

[Miguel]

I am going to be the first one to say this, and anyone who would like to can bookmark this and remind me of it whenever you want. THE DEFENSE WILL BE BETTER THAN IT WAS LAST YEAR.
I also expect that we will break the team record for fewest points allowed, which we have hovered close to breaking in many of BBs years.

A reminder.

 

[billdog3484]

haha good stuff. maybe he meant 2009

 

[bigfandan]

Playmakers force turnovers. We lost the playmakers. Say what you will about Assante, but everyone will acknowledge that the guy was a ball hawk. So what we lost was 4 guys that were playmakers who forced more than half the turnovers in '07.
.

The bigger question - Has competition caugth up with Bill's Defense?
We have to give "credit" to the competition. Opposing teams are figuring out how to defeat Bill's defensive schemes. Recall the Giants come back victory in SB 42; and the 4th qtr comebacks by Eagles and Pathers and Rams in previous SBs; fortunately Pats were able to hang on (with a little help from a certain clutch player) and won these 3 titles.

Opposing teams have elvolve on offense. Case in point is Colts. They managed to pursuade league to crack down on physical CB play and lower the PI bar. (#1 anti-Pats most-victimizing-Pats rule in last 3 playoffs). In the "epic" Colts comeback against Pats in 2007 playoff, Manning ran a fast-pace-nohuddle offense to prevent Pats DL/LB substitutions. They scored 5 TDs in 7 possesions in that game. Bill looked as shell shocked as all of us.

Bill has been running defense for a long time since his Giants days. His current scheme are similar to the old giants. The league and opposition seems to have finally caughted on. Now it's up to Bill to reinvent; otherwise I worry the trend is going to continue and there will be more (than the fair share of ) heart-breaking losses for Patsfans to endure.

Real cold hard football facts:
CHFF: Disputing Belichick's legacy as defensive god - 07.25.08 - SI Vault

 

[KY Pats Fan]

I believe the defense will be better as I expect a much better pass rush. But, if there isn't, opposing offenses will pick this D apart.

 

[BionicPatriot]

Belichick's D will look plenty genius again if he can ever get the playmakers make. It's all about what your front 7 can do, we still lack an explosive front 7 and I don't see that changing this year. Consider me worried about this defense.

I mean, where are the OLBs? Are we really going to count on a rookie this year? We signed a CB who's over 32, and we lost an OLB. We did all this while needing improvements at S, CB and OLB. I don't see anything but a marginal improvment with a guy like Springs who can't even stay healthy.

They seem to be ignoring defense for offense. Or, it seems like they go offense through FA, and defense through the draft. That's no good, we need a better defense now. Brady is 32, so is Randy Moss. This team does not have time to grab guys to develop for 3 years, we need veterans ready to step in, and we have none. I don't see us winning **** this year unless they put effort into the front 7.

Anyone calling me pesimistic, do what you do. We had a very poor defense last year, we've added virtually nothing to it but a corner who's well over 30. Did we really improve that much? I understand we want cap space to save Seymour, wilfork and Mankins but...We need to get better. We need an improvment on defense. But whatever, I guess Belichick is going to continue to approach the cheap fix it up solution towards defense, and this team will continue to suffer because of it.

I love BB, but I really have no clue what he's thinking. The defense is straight up being ignored just like last year and the year before. Yes I realized we walked away last year with 2 good ILBs to develop. We still don't have a GOOD STARTING CB opposite Springs, we don't have a SS who can make plays and we have no one at OLB. I just don't understand these moves, and I fear that if we go through the draft we'll be sitting around waiting for the rookies to be able to handle a complex offense. Oh well, I'll just keep my eyes closed and fingers crossed.

 

[BionicPatriot]

I believe the defense will be better as I expect a much better pass rush. But, if there isn't, opposing offenses will pick this D apart.

HOW? BY WHO?
Pierre Woods?

Crable? We have no one at OLB, so I wouldn't waste time expecting to think it will improve.

 

[patfanken]

The bigger question - Has competition caugth up with Bill's Defense?
We have to give "credit" to the competition. Opposing teams are figuring out how to defeat Bill's defensive schemes. Recall the Giants come back victory in SB 42; and the 4th qtr comebacks by Eagles and Pathers and Rams in previous SBs; fortunately Pats were able to hang on (with a little help from a certain clutch player) and won these 3 titles.

I wonder if its more that the league has legislated AGAINST BB's defense with such permissive PI and Holding interpretations, that ALL offenses are simply better. Also over this decade the 6'5 WR is no longer the exception but the rule, and to date defenses are STILL trying to defende those guys with 5'10 corners

 

[patfanken]

Belichick's D will look plenty genius again if he can ever get the playmakers make. It's all about what your front 7 can do, we still lack an explosive front 7 and I don't see that changing this year. Consider me worried about this defense.

I mean, where are the OLBs? Are we really going to count on a rookie this year? We signed a CB who's over 32, and we lost an OLB. We did all this while needing improvements at S, CB and OLB. I don't see anything but a marginal improvment with a guy like Springs who can't even stay healthy.

They seem to be ignoring defense for offense. Or, it seems like they go offense through FA, and defense through the draft. That's no good, we need a better defense now. Brady is 32, so is Randy Moss. This team does not have time to grab guys to develop for 3 years, we need veterans ready to step in, and we have none. I don't see us winning **** this year unless they put effort into the front 7.

Anyone calling me pesimistic, do what you do. We had a very poor defense last year, we've added virtually nothing to it but a corner who's well over 30. Did we really improve that much? I understand we want cap space to save Seymour, wilfork and Mankins but...We need to get better. We need an improvment on defense. But whatever, I guess Belichick is going to continue to approach the cheap fix it up solution towards defense, and this team will continue to suffer because of it.

I love BB, but I really have no clue what he's thinking. The defense is straight up being ignored just like last year and the year before. Yes I realized we walked away last year with 2 good ILBs to develop. We still don't have a GOOD STARTING CB opposite Springs, we don't have a SS who can make plays and we have no one at OLB. I just don't understand these moves, and I fear that if we go through the draft we'll be sitting around waiting for the rookies to be able to handle a complex offense. Oh well, I'll just keep my eyes closed and fingers crossed.

Yes you are too pessimistic, BP.

You ignore the fact that last year's team, despite mediocre to poor defensive statistics, STILL managed to win 11 games....WITHOUT Tom Brady. You ignore the fact that they played most of the year WITHOUT 2 of their best defensive players in AThomas and Rodney Harrison. They lost 2 KEY players in the secondary when Wilhite and Wheately BOTH went on IR very early. You ignore the fact that by the end of the year, 3 key OLBs, Crabble, Woods, and the afore mentioned AThomas were all on the IR.

So who are the OLBs this season. I would opine that a starting combination of AThomas and PWoods (going into his second year as a starter) will be an immediate upgrade over last years predominate group of Woods and Vrabel. We all love Vrabel, and he is a future Pats HOFer, but he slipped quite a bit last season, not only in sacks, but the number of times he pressured the QB, he also didn't cover as well. About the only think he did well IMHO, was to set the edge as well as any OLB in the league.

Yes the defense was subpar last season, but to think BB doesn't have a plan. IMHO, I'd love to see BB add Jason Taylor as a situational pass rusher (as long as he'd come in for the one year $3MM up to 5MM in insentives Randy Moss contract) and add another prospect OLB in the first 4 picks

 

[BionicPatriot]

Yes you are too pessimistic, BP.

You ignore the fact that last year's team, despite mediocre to poor defensive statistics, STILL managed to win 11 games....WITHOUT Tom Brady. You ignore the fact that they played most of the year WITHOUT 2 of their best defensive players in AThomas and Rodney Harrison. They lost 2 KEY players in the secondary when Wilhite and Wheately BOTH went on IR very early. You ignore the fact that by the end of the year, 3 key OLBs, Crabble, Woods, and the afore mentioned AThomas were all on the IR.

So who are the OLBs this season. I would opine that a starting combination of AThomas and PWoods (going into his second year as a starter) will be an immediate upgrade over last years predominate group of Woods and Vrabel. We all love Vrabel, and he is a future Pats HOFer, but he slipped quite a bit last season, not only in sacks, but the number of times he pressured the QB, he also didn't cover as well. About the only think he did well IMHO, was to set the edge as well as any OLB in the league.

Yes the defense was subpar last season, but to think BB doesn't have a plan. IMHO, I'd love to see BB add Jason Taylor as a situational pass rusher (as long as he'd come in for the one year $3MM up to 5MM in insentives Randy Moss contract) and add another prospect OLB in the first 4 picks

Fair points Ken. But even if youw ant a move, told you I wasn't the only one

I do see your point. My question is, can we depend on them? If we're not bringing in another pass rusher, we need to unleash Thomas after the QB. We need him to attack them like he did in Baltimore, than we'd be cooking. But will he? He hasn't since being here.

Woods had a lot of ups and downs in his game last year, and I wonder how much he'll improve. Hes been with us for about 4 years now, right? I don't know just how much improvement we're going to see from this guy. Because clearly, he needs to step up if he's starting for this team.

WilHite was actually not on IR last year and was a good draft pick, the secondary improved once he came in. Wheatley looked good RIGHT before he went down, my question more with this guy is can we count on him to stay healthy? Same goes for Springs.

You bring up a good point in Harrison, he went down and Sanders wasn't the greatest in his spot. And we've done nothing to upgrade that. Yes this D has potential, they also have questions.

 

[PatsFan37]

You ignore the fact that they played most of the year WITHOUT 2 of their best defensive players in AThomas and Rodney Harrison. They lost 2 KEY players in the secondary when Wilhite and Wheately BOTH went on IR very early. You ignore the fact that by the end of the year, 3 key OLBs, Crabble, Woods, and the afore mentioned AThomas were all on the IR.

So who are the OLBs this season. I would opine that a starting combination of AThomas and PWoods (going into his second year as a starter) will be an immediate upgrade over last years predominate group of Woods and Vrabel.

A couple bones to pick: when comparing one team with another, you have to compare them at the beginning of their seasons. If your baseline is last year's team after AD went down, you have to take out an arbitrary player from next year's team. Injuries will happen, that's a near certainty.

They started last year with Woods, Thomas and Vrabel in a rotation at OLB. Next year they'll start with Woods and Thomas and [Crable, Guyton, draft pick, left-over FA]. Unless they sign a top OLB or draft extremely well at OLB, that's not an improvement.

Rodney Harrison is no longer one of their best defensive players. Wilhite and Wheatley were key players only because Bryant was cut and O'Neal sucked. I'm not counting on Springs being a standout CB ... their track record on signing FA CBs has been shaky.

It's still a very strong defense, with a terrific DL and two great LBs in Thomas and Mayo. They have serviceable starting safeties but no depth. Their strength at corner depends on the development of two second-year players. Maybe that'll work out. That is where I trust the F.O. They must think so.

Because teams with a weak pass rush and a questionable secondary have trouble getting off the field on third down. Which sounds like an awfully familiar problem.

They're short on cash but long on picks. I wouldn't be surprised if they use one in trade for a solid veteran.

 

[APatrioticVirginian]

I also think the D will be improved this year. We are younger stronger faster......We have the technology we can rebuild it!

 

[mgteich]

I do like to compare to 2007 rather than last year. Last year we had Cassel at QB, a very weak schedule and a lot of injuries. None of these should be repeated. Besides, in 2007 we were the best that we've ever been (or close, some would choose 2004).
===================================
I do believe that our offense will be as good. Taylor and Baker are major additions. To replace the production of Stallworth and Gaffney, we have Lewis and Aiken. I expect that we will add a receiver.
===================================
Is our defense really better without Vrabel, Harrison and Samuel and with diminshed performance from Bruschi? After all, we replaced them with Woods, Meriweather, Wheatley and Mayo!

 

[AzPatsFan]

Belichick's D will look plenty genius again if he can ever get the playmakers make. It's all about what your front 7 can do, we still lack an explosive front 7 and I don't see that changing this year. Consider me worried about this defense.

I mean, where are the OLBs? Are we really going to count on a rookie this year? We signed a CB who's over 32, and we lost an OLB. We did all this while needing improvements at S, CB and OLB. I don't see anything but a marginal improvement with a guy like Springs who can't even stay healthy.

They seem to be ignoring defense for offense. Or, it seems like they go offense through FA, and defense through the draft. That's no good, we need a better defense now. Brady is 32, so is Randy Moss. This team does not have time to grab guys to develop for 3 years, we need veterans ready to step in, and we have none. I don't see us winning **** this year unless they put effort into the front 7.

Anyone calling me pessimistic, do what you do. We had a very poor defense last year, we've added virtually nothing to it but a corner who's well over 30. Did we really improve that much? I understand we want cap space to save Seymour, wilfork and Mankins but...We need to get better. We need an improvement on defense. But whatever, I guess Belichick is going to continue to approach the cheap fix it up solution towards defense, and this team will continue to suffer because of it.

I love BB, but I really have no clue what he's thinking. The defense is straight up being ignored just like last year and the year before. Yes I realized we walked away last year with 2 good ILBs to develop. We still don't have a GOOD STARTING CB opposite Springs, we don't have a SS who can make plays and we have no one at OLB. I just don't understand these moves, and I fear that if we go through the draft we'll be sitting around waiting for the rookies to be able to handle a complex offense. Oh well, I'll just keep my eyes closed and fingers crossed.

Despite your repeatedly saying it, the Patriots did not have a poor defense in 2008. It was ranked in the Top Ten and Top Eight as far as Points Allowed.

The Only statistic that looked bad was the % of TD given up in the Red Zone, but that was misleading. The Pats allowed one of the fewest number of attempts in the Red Zone. IOW they stopped them, BEFORE they got to the red zone, most of the time. So what is wrong with that?

As far as changing the red zone statistic a mere swing in 5 opportunities from TDs to FGs would have obviated that misleading statistic.

No Thank You. I prefer giving up a near league low in red zone opportunities as a truer measure of defensive quality.

I agree we need more sacks. But with all the injuries to the sackers, it is not surprising, the low number. If anything it si amazing the defense did as well as it did in the circumstances. If anything, the return to health and development of the youngsters will probably automatically produce a more normal number of sacks.

 

[bigfandan]

Despite your repeatedly saying it, the Patriots did not have a poor defense in 2008. It was ranked in the Top Ten and Top Eight as far as Points Allowed.

The Only statistic that looked bad was the % of TD given up in the Red Zone, but that was misleading. The Pats allowed one of the fewest number of attempts in the Red Zone. IOW they stopped them, BEFORE they got to the red zone, most of the time. So what is wrong with that?

As far as changing the red zone statistic a mere swing in 5 opportunities from TDs to FGs would have obviated that misleading statistic.

No Thank You. I prefer giving up a near league low in red zone opportunities as a truer measure of defensive quality.

I agree we need more sacks. But with all the injuries to the sackers, it is not surprising, the low number. If anything it si amazing the defense did as well as it did in the circumstances. If anything, the return to health and development of the youngsters will probably automatically produce a more normal number of sacks.

I thought Pats were 31st of 32 teams in stopping 3rd & long(7 yards or more)? They could not stop the other team in passing situations. Remember SB 42?

 

[simkin_belinelli]

Great post. We have maybe worst secondary in the league. Marieweather just can't tackle, Harrison can't run, Wheatley and Whatever are JAP, like James Sanders ...

 

[APatrioticVirginian]

Great post. We have maybe worst secondary in the league. Marieweather just can't tackle, Harrison can't run, Wheatley and Whatever are JAP, like James Sanders ...

Please tone the racism down the proper term is Japanese American

 

[JFK]

I do like to compare to 2007 rather than last year. Last year we had Cassel at QB, a very weak schedule and a lot of injuries. None of these should be repeated. Besides, in 2007 we were the best that we've ever been (or close, some would choose 2004).
==================================
I do believe that our offense will be as good. Taylor and Baker are major additions. To replace the production of Stallworth and Gaffney, we have Lewis and Aiken. I expect that we will add a receiver.
===================================
Is our defense really better without Vrabel, Harrison and Samuel and with diminshed performance from Bruschi? After all, we replaced them with Woods, Meriweather, Wheatley and Mayo!

I agree. Our schedule last year was easy and not a good test for our defense. I think we need a playmaker @ cb and ss. I am hoping crable actually plays good cos we'll need to trade our draft picks for playmakers. Right now, our secondary is bad

i

 

[Pats726]

To be fair to AJ...at the time that was made, that was looking forward without the knowledge of many injuries in the D. Thomas, Harrison, Woods, Wheatley..to name teh ones who ended up on IR...but there were also injuries to Warren, LSanders, JSanders, Bruschi, Vrabel, Hobbs, Wilfork, Seymour. While these were lesser injuries, they had an effect on the D as well. Just a reminder.

 

[Brady to Brown]

I don't think the defense will be very good this year.

Unless the young CB's and LB's show up this will be a middle of the pack defense.

 

[alvinnf]

wow big leap here.