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Should have re-signed Samuel...

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How many threads can we have going at the same time about Samuels, and Hobbs?

This is starting to look like week 2 when we had 5 threads going about dumping Cassel, and signing Culpepper.

Oh, and 'condon84', Please call BB, and ask him to explain to you what he expects from Hobbs. You really need to stop bashing the guy until you know FOR SURE, that a breakdown in coverage was actually his fault. There are other guys on the field too.
 
Should have resigned him yes. But that's beating a dead horse. The ideal time to resign him would have been 3/4 way through or right after 2006 at about 7.5M/year but BEFORE Clements got huge money to sign with the 49ers for 10M/Year. That set the market and then made it impossible to sign Samuel for what they thought they could afford him for.
 
Came across this - good fuel for the debate:


Loss of Asante Samuel costly to Patriots
Bad return on decision

By Ron Borges | Tuesday, January 6, 2009 |

If you really want to know why your Patriots [team stats] aren’t in the playoffs, the reason was running down the sideline in Minneapolis on Sunday afternoon with a football in his arm.

There, with pilfered pigskin in hand, galloped a familiar figure, Philadelphia Eagles Pro Bowl cornerback Asante Samuel [stats]. With him was a pass thrown by the Vikings’ Tarvaris Jackson, one Samuel would return 44 yards for a touchdown that helped the Eagles advance to the divisional round of the playoffs and set a postseason record for most career interception returns for touchdowns. It was a pick that came courtesy of the Patriots business model.

A little more than a year ago, the Patriots braintrust decided it was too much to pay Samuel what he could get on the open market, which was $20 million in guaranteed money as part of the six-year, $57.14 million deal the Eagles threw at him on the first day of free agency. The Pats made a similar decision the previous two years, declining to renegotiate with Samuel for a market-value contract at the time, thus having to franchise him to keep him in the 2007 lineup.

Since that time, Samuel signed with the Eagles, returned to the Pro Bowl, returned to the playoffs and returned a postseason pick for a touchdown for the fourth time in his career. The Patriots? They returned to their offseason homes in large part because they returned to the field with a string of sorry replacements for Samuel. Add all their contracts together plus the revenue from at least one home playoff game (and perhaps more) had the Patriots won one more game this year, and you could have paid most of Samuel’s salary, if not all of it.

Samuel played 2007 for the $7.79 million franchise tag figure. Add to that the estimated $2,597,980 paid to Deltha O’Neal, Jason Webster (which includes an estimated injury settlement likely reducing his vested veteran’s pay of $730,000), Lewis Sanders, Mike Richardson, Jonathan Wilhite, Terrence Wheatley and an additional $46,270 paid to the long-departed Fernando Bryant and you total a two-year expenditure for Samuel’s position of roughly $10,387,980, or about $5.2 million a year. Had Samuel’s deal been redone before 2007, it would have been cheaper than what he received a year later from the Eagles, and if it had been done two years before, it would have been far cheaper had the Patriots made that happen.

So what’s a trip to the playoffs worth? Some would say priceless, but in this case it’s easier to calculate.

According to STATS, Inc., Patriots No. 1 cornerback Ellis Hobbs [stats] tied with Arizona’s Rod Hood for most touchdown passes allowed with nine. Not far behind was O’Neal, tied for third with seven, and he was benched after the loss to Pittsburgh that was one of four defeats directly attributable to shoddy pass coverage.

That two-man total of 16 touchdown passes allowed also tied with Hood and Cardinals teammate Dominque Rodgers-Cromartie for highest cornerback tandem in the league this season. Meanwhile, Samuel allowed about the same amount of completions as Hobbs (47 completions on 90 passes defended, to Hobbs’ 46 on 84 defended), gave up nearly 200 fewer yards (594 to 762) and more importantly allowed only a third as many touchdowns (three). Samuel also broke up 24 passes to Hobbs’ 11.

If the apologists, bum kissers and FOBs still can find a way to conclude Samuel wasn’t a difference-maker worth being paid top dollar by a team that, according to NFLPA statistics, was well below this year’s salary cap, than listen to Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson.

“That’s what he’s done his whole career,” Johnson told the Philadelphia media about Samuel on Sunday night. “He has a knack for making plays like that. He’s a playmaker.”

If one wants to argue Hobbs was limping much of the year they would be right, but according to Johnson, Samuel is a playmaker under similar circumstances.

“A lot of guys wouldn’t have been out there today,” Johnson said of Samuel, who came off the field several times with a bad hip. “He’s hurt.”

Asante Samuel hurt a lot of people this season, including the Vikings on the field and the Patriots watching him at home Sunday.
 
Came across this - good fuel for the debate:


Loss of Asante Samuel costly to Patriots
Bad return on decision

By Ron Borges | Tuesday, January 6, 2009 |.

I don't think anyone can really believe that Samuel wouldnt have helped this year, but he wasnt worth what he was asking. I also don't believe we'd be in the playoffs just because of him. He wouldve helped, but thats about it.

oh, and for what it's worth, I don't reguard Borges as any kind of expert on CB's. I'll wait, and see what BB has to say about it.....which will probably be nothing
 
I don't think anyone can really believe that Samuel wouldnt have helped this year, but he wasnt worth what he was asking. I also don't believe we'd be in the playoffs just because of him. He wouldve helped, but thats about it.

oh, and for what it's worth, I don't reguard Borges as any kind of expert on CB's. I'll wait, and see what BB has to say about it.....which will probably be nothing
Correct NPF. The injured reserve defensive backfield of Wheatley, Seymour, Williams, Webster and arguably our best linebacker Thomas had no contribution to our woes whatsoever.

Whilst Asante was a very good player for us, it's not like our defense became suddenly horrible with his singular departure.

Sometimes I really believe the average poster can contribute finer literaty pieces than so called professionals.
 
Borges would have made a more credible argument if he compared the numbers of QB pressure/sacks during Samuel's tenure with the Patriots and those of this year. I suspect you find the pressure was well down during much of the season in comparison to those seasons, the result of which is the secondary got torched.

If you want to get a relevant statistic, look to 2005 when the defense had major issues post-Brushi's stroke. Samuel had more tackles (given the run issues), but his pass defense statistics were not impressive at all. But if you are Ron Borges, why trifle with the facts when you can use meaningless statistics that justify your end of taking shots at Belichick and crew.
 
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*ROFLMAO*

Also, what is wrong with that article? Do you not like it because it put Mayo in a negative, all be it true, light?Did you actually watch the games? Most of Mayo's tackles were beyond the line of scrimmage. And not one or 2 yards.. Wer're talking 5 -7 yards. Now, the difference between myself and Joyner is that I don't damn Mayo for that. In the running game, it speaks of the front 3 not doing their job and controlling the inside lanes and allowing O-lineman to get to the upper level where he can engulf Mayo.

You can construed facts to support ANY argument. If you don't understand this concept, then it's your fault.

You think that's a valid article, that says it all.
 


How many threads can we have going at the same time about Samuels, and Hobbs?

This is starting to look like week 2 when we had 5 threads going about dumping Cassel, and signing Culpepper.

Oh, and 'condon84', Please call BB, and ask him to explain to you what he expects from Hobbs. You really need to stop bashing the guy until you know FOR SURE, that a breakdown in coverage was actually his fault. There are other guys on the field too.

Look dude, I watch the games just like all you guys. What I see is Hobbs getting picked on and teams getting easy third down conversions when they attack him. Whether it is a result of a defensive scheme that this always happens, who knows. Hobbs did get defensive when the media started grilling him last year about it and complained that he was doing his job. Maybe BB is just messing with him and putting him in a position to constantly fail so we could have this argument!:singing:
 
Came across this - good fuel for the debate:


Loss of Asante Samuel costly to Patriots
Bad return on decision

By Ron Borges | Tuesday, January 6, 2009 |

If you really want to know why your Patriots [team stats] aren’t in the playoffs, the reason was running down the sideline in Minneapolis on Sunday afternoon with a football in his arm.

No Ron, injury nightmares including the best QB in the league going down and the Jets sucking balls when we needed them to win was the reason. We finished 11-5 too with a very depleted squad and a QB who hadn't started since before Christ and your telling me we missed the playoffs because we didn't sign Samuel?

The mere fact we still mustered a good season without our star guys proves this team doesn't need any individuals to win games, just each other. It also proves this team has moved on.

Asante Samuel is ancient history in NE.
 
Watch the replay. Jackson looks at his receiver the second the ball is snapped. At the snap, Assante is his 7 yards off, upon seeing the lookdown by Jackson, he stops in his tracks and awaits the pass. Not only Hobbs makes that INT, but I will also say that Moreland, Gay, Starks, you and me make that INT.

LOL, okay buddy

How can I even properly respond to this crap.
 
Hobbs would play solid defense all game and give up one 20 yard reception and people on this board would talk how Hobbs couldn't cover anyone and was picked on and burned all game long. Hobbs wasn't picked on nearly as often as you make it sound since teams picked on O'Neal and whoever else was on the other side far more than Hobbs.

Hobbs is just one of those guys who could do 99 things right in the game and his detracters will rost him for the one thing he did wrong. He was like Reche Caldwell before him who dropped one ball in the entire regular season and dropped two balls in the AFC Championships and was promptly labeled as "hands of stone" or "can't hold onto the ball". Or like Matt Light who plays solidily all season and gets burnt once or twice for a sack by a speedster like Freeney and gets slammed as a mediocre LT. Some players are lightning rod players who get crap for all they do wrong and no credit for anything he does right.


The problem is......HOBBS DOESN'T PLAY SOLID DEFENSE ALL GAME!!!!!!!!!!

He gets picked on constantly. Seriously, I am so amused by the Hobbs apologists on this board. It's freaking amazing! Are we not watching the same games? We are talking about the New England Patriots right?
 
Look dude, I watch the games just like all you guys. What I see is Hobbs getting picked on and teams getting easy third down conversions when they attack him. Whether it is a result of a defensive scheme that this always happens, who knows. Hobbs did get defensive when the media started grilling him last year about it and complained that he was doing his job. Maybe BB is just messing with him and putting him in a position to constantly fail so we could have this argument!:singing:


That's your main problem. You watch the games and therefore believe you are a good judge of defense and CB play. The facts say Hobbs wasn't "picked on" much more than Samuel last year, but you dismiss the facts because they don't agree with your vastly superior eyes that are limited to the TV feed in realtime.
 
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The problem is......HOBBS DOESN'T PLAY SOLID DEFENSE ALL GAME!!!!!!!!!!

He gets picked on constantly. Seriously, I am so amused by the Hobbs apologists on this board. It's freaking amazing! Are we not watching the same games? We are talking about the New England Patriots right?


And BB is too stubborn/stupid to even attempt to find a replacement. He just keeps playing Hobbs all the time, even when hurt. You, my friend, are a better judge of CB play than BB.
 
Samuel is an average #1 corner in the NFL. In all honesty, I would have kept him at about 6-7 mill a year, but not at 9. he's not worth that.

BTW, if Samuel was so great, why didn't he line up opposite Burress in the SB? Why did the Patriots not use him there all game long?


And you know this how?

LOL. That says it all about your objectivity. Good job.

Also, Pats rarely play man coverage, if you don't know that, then you do not follow this team. Speaks volumes about your knowledge.

And you know why Samuel was never on Burress side? Maybe you can put two and two together. Who was manning the other CB spot.
 
LOL. That says it all about your objectivity. Good job.

Also, Pats rarely play man coverage, if you don't know that, then you do not follow this team. Speaks volumes about your knowledge.

And you know why Samuel was never on Burress side? Maybe you can put two and two together. Who was manning the other CB spot.



So BB is so stupid and stubborn that he has a great CB and a terrible CB and he never plays his great CB on Burress. Awesome analysis.
 
Poorly and erroneously, as usual.

So you agree with that guy's post that Moreland, Gay, Starks, you and me make that INT? Or are you just towing the company line of the Hobbs apologists?
 
Borges writes, "If the apologists, bum kissers and FOBs still can find a way to conclude Samuel wasn’t a difference-maker worth being paid top dollar by a team that, according to NFLPA statistics, was well below this year’s salary cap,"

Wow! It's not like this dispassionate journalist has an emotional agenda about both evil BB and that cheapskate Kraft or anything.
 
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So BB is so stupid and stubborn that he has a great CB and a terrible CB and he never plays his great CB on Burress. Awesome analysis.

Dude, Pats play zone coverage. The concept of zone and man coverage are completely different. If they were to switch man coverage just for one guy (Plaxico) would be more of a detriment to the overall scheme of the defense.

And I love how you or some of the people here are now putting words in my mouth. I never said BB is stupid nor stubborn. You guys are reaching.

I'm sure BB thinks Hobbs can do the job that he's asked to do. He thought the same with ONeal, Starks, Beisel, and a number of guys that couldn't. Surpirse, BB's not perfect. He's still the best coach out there, but you guys act like the guy doesn't make error judgement.
 
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