Shefter on the QB market this offseason

[Funktopus]

I think at least 6 of the QBs on Schefter's list would be considered the incumbent. If these QBs vacate their positions, the QB Demand would increase along with the QB Supply and hopefully have zero effect on Cassel's value.

Many of the other QB's potentially "Flooding" the market won't be competing for a starting role on anything other than a new season of The Bachelor.

I'm still hopeful that the Pats can get some significant value somehow for Cassel.

-F

 

[Dagg]

Franchise him and trade him to the Raiders straight up for asimuhnga(sp?)

 

[Mangold74]

Maybe the Jets can apply for some bailout money on that Gholston control. Pee Yuu, talk about being upside down

Other than the big money guys re-doing their deals, there's only a few players there who can be cut to save money.

You don't have to cut someone to save money. Brandon Moore will not be recieving a 5 million dollar roster bonus. That money will probably become part of a signing bonus for a new deal. David Barrett will be cut. Chris Baker is probably shown the door. I see no real cap issue here. Frankly even if the Jets had a ton of cap room I still wouldn't want Matt Cassel. I doubt many of you would be very confident with him being your qb for the next 10 years.

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

When I saw the title of this thread I thought "Shefter can play QB?"

 

[spacecrime]

Frankly even if the Jets had a ton of cap room I still wouldn't want Matt Cassel.

Best not to make these statements. If Mangini signs him you will break an ankle trying to reverse yourself.

At one time I did not want Moss. I could not see BB signing him. That's not as bad as the maroon who said that Patrick Pass would be signed immediately if the Pats cut him, but still be careful of dissing MFC.

 

[Mangold74]

Best not to make these statements. If Mangini signs him you will break an ankle trying to reverse yourself.

At one time I did not want Moss. I could not see BB signing him. That's not as bad as the maroon who said that Patrick Pass would be signed immediately if the Pats cut him, but still be careful of dissing MFC.

That would be tough if they signed him. I still think the Jets goal is for Ratliff to take over whenever Favre decides he's had enough again.

Some team is going to get Cassell this offseason or next offseason and he's going to see what it's like to play for a team that doesn't have two all pro WR's, a hall of fame coach and a very good offensive line.

 

[patsfan55]

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive QBs could flood market in offseason

Basically, hes saying the market for QBs will be flooded. Not good, it will take away a lot of our leverage in any potential trade attempt and lessen the compensation we would receive.

Out of all the qbs listed Cassel has the best chance at being a potential "franchise qb" for years to come
i love warner, and i like mcnabb, but really how many yrs do they have left?
alex smith might be my look-a-like, but he looks nothing like a franchise qb
maybe vy, probably not leinart

 

[DaBruinz]

That would be tough if they signed him. I still think the Jets goal is for Ratliff to take over whenever Favre decides he's had enough again.

Some team is going to get Cassell this offseason or next offseason and he's going to see what it's like to play for a team that doesn't have two all pro WR's, a hall of fame coach and a very good offensive line.

The Patriots don't have 2 ALL PRO WRs. As for the offensive line, they were better from week 6-week 12, but week 13, they were bad in their pass blocking. Weeks 1-6, the O-line was horribly inconsistent. Not just from game to game, but from play to play. Its why the running game was horrible to start the season.

Cassel has a lot of good qualities about him and has learned a lot from the various coaches he's had around him. And from Brady as well. To sell him short, like you are doing, would be a fallacy on your part. All one has to do is compare week 2 to Week 12 and you'll see a remarkable difference.

Cassel may not be a franchise QB, but he'll do more holding the spot for the next "franchise" QB of some team than Derek Anderson has done.

 

[KillEM]

Calling Derek Anderson a consolation prize if you can't land McNabb is a huge insult to McNabb.

 

[TealSox]

Give me a minute as I relish in the irony. During the pre-season, it seemed that a Matt Cassell fan was few and far between on this board and an outright release was acceptable if not expected. Now it seems like there are some Pat fans that hate to see him go and/or look at him as a "cash cow" when it comes to getting draft picks.

Shefter is merely stating the obvious and I'm questioning his journalistic abilities outside of being given inside information from NFL headquarters. Guess I just think this is an article I would see on Yahoosports.com rather than NFL.com, but maybe I have too high of expectations.

Digging deeper than the obvious:

The NFC North should be big players in the future of free agent quarterbacks.

Vikings: I guess it is an option that the Vikings can look back at Jackson or continue on with Gus, which has been less than exciting. If they are going to give Booty a chance to play early next season, they would try to get him playing time down the stretch. Considering they are in a playoff race, they won't be doing that and they will likely look to free agency/trade to find the final piece to the Championship puzzle. Who they chose, no one knows.

Bears: I really wonder if the Bears front office thinks Orton is going to be the answer to getting into the playoffs and beyond. Personally, he looks like a solid back-up and can likely manage a game because of his maturity. But would they get rid of Orton and bring back Grossman? If so, what was the whole point of 2008 and having Orton start? If the answer is Orton, I can see 09 being a hot seat year.

Lions: Poor Culpepper loses his job again and heads back into retirement sobbing about how much no one loves him. This is far from a veteran team and so I have a hard time thinking that they should sign a veteran QB. This looks like an ideal situation for Cassell who can play Scott Mitchell in the 80's edition of the same storyline. Drew Stanton is an option, but I am going on that limb to say that he has a year or two before he is completely ready to lead the team. Kitna needs to go as he has Millen spelled all over him.

Eagles: I understand releasing McNabb if it saves you 9 mil, but to look anywhere but to Kevin Kolb as the starter next season will make them look like fools. Might be an ideal situation for a veteran back-up, but would Jeff Garcia seriously want to go back to being a back up in Philly? How about Kerry Collins? Warner?

Jets: Get ready to talk about this all off season: Farve to retire or come back to the Jets for one more season? I think the Jets will learn will quick what the Packers were dealing with and lead to them trading the legend. With Brett on the team and possibly stalling any moves for a QB, the Jets will hesitate long enough to find themselves late to the party.

Cardinals: You have to think that if management told Warner he would compete with Leinart for the starting job next year and they would sign him to a three year contract, Warner would take it considering he beat out Leinart before. And also consider there aren't many other options out there that provide two of the best WRs.

49er: Assuming Mike Singletary is the coach next year, he will have to learn an important lesson: you only last as long as your QB plays well. And if the fans/management get sick of waiting for the QB to play good, you are looking at the end of days. SF fans have dealt with young QBs for too long. I should be looking at a veteran, but who knows. Warner in SF with Bruce and Martz would be interesting and probably the only option that Warner would consider if the money was right. I think the pick needs to be Mike's and not Martz because it is Mike's job to loss and throwing Martz under the bus will only reflect on Mike.

 

[Miguel]

The best case, which may not be doable, would be for the Patriots to creatively sign Cassel to the big contract he wants that isn't salary cap crushing the first year, has enough guaranteed money to be fair to Cassel and also not have so much signing bonus that he's untradable.

I'm guessing it's not doable without significant risk to the team in case of injury (for instance, no signing bonus but guarantee the 2nd and 3rd year salaries which would be as good as a signing bonus for Cassel but without the cap acceleration if traded.

It would be perfect as Cassel would get his guarantees, we would have him until we were sure Brady was OK, maybe until 2010 if necessary, but he would still be tradable. Probably a huge longshot with so many factions to satisfy.

When would Cassel sign this contract??

During the 2008 season???
Before FA begins in 2009???
After being tagged??
During FA while not getting tagged??

What is your estimate of "enough guaranteed money that is fair to Cassel"??

Why would Cassel sign such a deal??

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

When would Cassel sign this contract??

During the 2008 season???
Before FA begins in 2009???
After being tagged??
During FA while not getting tagged??

What is your estimate of "enough guaranteed money that is fair to Cassel"??

Why would Cassel sign such a deal??

Like I said, I don't have the answers and trying to make the Patriots and Cassel happy while keeping him tradable might be impossible.

Conceptually, though, if Cassel wanted a 6 year/$72M contract and in lieu of a signing bonus (to make him tradeable so the acceleration wouldn't be there) they gave him flat salaries of $12M a year but the first three years were guaranteed, if I understand correctly that would :

- Guarantee Cassel $36M
- Keep him tradable without cap acceleration
- give the Patriots some time to decide what to do if Brady is struggling in his rehab.

The Patriots may not do it, though, as the guaranteed salaries might be considered too risky if there's an injury. Also there could well be some salary cap rule I'm not aware of that would make it not work. It was just a thought at what could work for everyone.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Like I said, I don't have the answers and trying to make the Patriots and Cassel happy while keeping him tradable might be impossible.

Conceptually, though, if Cassel wanted a 6 year/$72M contract and in lieu of a signing bonus (to make him tradeable so the acceleration wouldn't be there) they gave him flat salaries of $12M a year but the first three years were guaranteed, if I understand correctly that would :

- Guarantee Cassel $36M
- Keep him tradable without cap acceleration
- give the Patriots some time to decide what to do if Brady is struggling in his rehab.

The Patriots may not do it, though, as the guaranteed salaries might be considered too risky if there's an injury. Also there could well be some salary cap rule I'm not aware of that would make it not work. It was just a thought at what could work for everyone.

If I understand what they did with Seau last season correctly, it's theoretically possible to give Cassel a split salary (meaning that he wouldn't receive the full $12M if he were on IR, but might receive, say, half-salary for the remainder of the season.)

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

If I understand what they did with Seau last season correctly, it's theoretically possible to give Cassel a split salary (meaning that he wouldn't receive the full $12M if he were on IR, but might receive, say, half-salary for the remainder of the season.)

Right but Cassel likely wouldn't agree to that as my suggestion is guaranteeing future salaries in lieu of a signing bonus for trade reasons, so he would want that money 100% guaranteed.

 

[Miguel]

Like I said, I don't have the answers and trying to make the Patriots and Cassel happy while keeping him tradable might be impossible.

Conceptually, though, if Cassel wanted a 6 year/$72M contract and in lieu of a signing bonus (to make him tradeable so the acceleration wouldn't be there) they gave him flat salaries of $12M a year but the first three years were guaranteed, if I understand correctly that would :

- Guarantee Cassel $36M
- Keep him tradable without cap acceleration
- give the Patriots some time to decide what to do if Brady is struggling in his rehab.

The Patriots may not do it, though, as the guaranteed salaries might be considered too risky if there's an injury. Also there could well be some salary cap rule I'm not aware of that would make it not work. It was just a thought at what could work for everyone.

Why would Cassel agree to such a deal paying him $12 million in 17 installments that starts in September when he can get close to that amount in one-lump sum in March??

These rules may come into play when talking about signing Cassel to a multi-year deal in 2009.

"In a Player Contract entered into in a Capped Year, Salary fully guaranteed for League Years after the Final Capped Year will be included in Team Salary for the preceding League Years in which the Salary Cap is in effect, in any manner the Team chooses, if payment of the player’s entire Salary for the Final Capped Year is not fully guaranteed. For example, without limitation on any other applicable example, and if the Salary Cap is in effect during the 2010 and 2011 League Years, and the player enters into a four-year contract which is not fully guaranteed for the 2011 League Year, which is the Final Capped Year, but is fully guaranteed for the 2012 and 2013 League Years, which are Uncapped Years, then the full amount of the guaranteed Salary for the 2012 and 2013 League Years will be included in Salary and Team Salary for the 2010 and 2011 League Years in a proportion determined by the Team."

"In a Player Contract, or any renegotiation or extension of a Player Contract, that is executed in the Final Capped Year, each of the following, if it is to be earned or paid to the player in the Final League Year (which is an Uncapped Year): (a) any Salary advance which the player is not and cannot be obligated to repay; (b) any off-season workout bonus that is contingent upon the player’s participation in less than 32 days of the
Club’s off-season workout program; (c) any off-season roster bonus; and (d) any off-season reporting bonus;"

"For purposes of determining Team Salary under the foregoing, the term “signing bonus” shall include: (5) The difference between the Salary in the second contract year and the first contract year when Salary in the second contract year is less than half the Salary called for in the first year of such Contract."

 

[RayClay]

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive QBs could flood market in offseason

Basically, hes saying the market for QBs will be flooded. Not good, it will take away a lot of our leverage in any potential trade attempt and lessen the compensation we would receive.

That's funny, there's another writer with a similar name who just recently insisted Cassel would command a 65 million dollar contract.

Are they related?

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...sel-will-looking-aaron-rodgers-type-deal.html

Oh, I'm sorry, we're giving him 72 million now...never mind.

 

[Urgent]

Schefter points out that there could be a "flooded market" of QB's.

What he doesn't point out is that the market will be flooded with back-ups.

Michael Vick, Jon Kitna, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Matt Hasselbeck, Marc Bulger, Alex Smith - are any teams going to gamble that these players are the long-term solution at starting QB?

I guess someone could take a risk on Leinart off that list. But it hardly is a list of prospective starters.

It's exactly the same as comparing the CB market last year with Asante Samuel and Webster, Bryant, and Sanders in the same bucket.

Further, most of the QB's on his list won't end up being available.
Vick? Probably will be suspended - it's highly unlikely he will walk out of prison and into the NFL.
Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck - none of these guys are free agents. They might be released or traded, but it is conjecture.

Higher on the list, Garcia, Kitna, and Collins are clearly past their prime. They are one-year solutions, but not long-term solutions at QB. A team looking for a solution probably won't consider these guys. Even Warner, one of the true free agents on the list, doesn't have four or five years left - he won't command a real long-term deal.

While there could be many players listed at QB available, there will be few players comparable to Cassel.

If you care about winning, you are going to consider Cassel.

 

[RayClay]

Schefter points out that there could be a "flooded market" of QB's.

What he doesn't point out is that the market will be flooded with back-ups.

Michael Vick, Jon Kitna, Rex Grossman, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Matt Hasselbeck, Marc Bulger, Alex Smith - are any teams going to gamble that these players are the long-term solution at starting QB?

I guess someone could take a risk on Leinart off that list. But it hardly is a list of prospective starters.

It's exactly the same as comparing the CB market last year with Asante Samuel and Webster, Bryant, and Sanders in the same bucket.

Further, most of the QB's on his list won't end up being available.
Vick? Probably will be suspended - it's highly unlikely he will walk out of prison and into the NFL.
Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Alex Smith, Matt Hasselbeck - none of these guys are free agents. They might be released or traded, but it is conjecture.

Higher on the list, Garcia, Kitna, and Collins are clearly past their prime. They are one-year solutions, but not long-term solutions at QB. A team looking for a solution probably won't consider these guys. Even Warner, one of the true free agents on the list, doesn't have four or five years left - he won't command a real long-term deal.

While there could be many players listed at QB available, there will be few players comparable to Cassel.

If you care about winning, you are going to consider Cassel.

There will always be a demand for quality quarterbacks. The difference with Cassel is that he has sat and learned in a good system so he is more ready and less shell shocked or beaten up than others on that list.

The rule of thumb used to be 5 years to develop a QB. Bad organizations take very high draft picks, throw them in there and often destroy their confidence and nervous systems.

Who knows the actual difference in talent level between Cassel and Joey Harrington, Tim Couch, Matt Leinart (just to throw out names), etc.? The fact is, Cassel got a chance to develop and learn without pressure, observe a great QB functioning in a great system.

More college QBs should get that opportunity, but they won't because they'll fold with pressure from the fans and press to throw high draft picks to the wolves before they are ready.

Of course some QBs have the confidence right out of college, but if the success rate of first rounders who started immediately is considered, Its not necessarily the norm.

You won't see any 1st rounders sit for 5 years anymore (lol) but Cincinnati's handling of Palmer and Kitna is instructive.