Zach Sudfeld

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Holy cow Sudfeld is sticks in the upper body. Gronkowski needs to get him on his workout plan.

I'd noticed the same thing. Not gonna deal well blocking with those sticks. Decent lower body. Easier to fix lack of arm strength.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

The two TE system isn't even Josh's thing, we swithced to that with Gronk and the serial killer under O'Brien. Then we were without one of the two TE most of last season. Not to mention they always had to plan for alternatives in case a TE got hurt during the game. The offense will adjust fine, it had to adjust last year and be ready to even further. It would be a bigger deal 12 months ago with less speed at WR. Now we have an interesting crop of young WR and solid depth at TE. The offense will be different but having to change it isn't a big deal to a guy like McDaniels.

 

[Sicilian]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I think Ballard's hype has far exceeded his prior play.

No question there, as is the case with most newcomers. Everyone always looks at what they CAN do, compared to what they're likely to do. However, the question isn't necessarily can he do everything that AH could at the same level (because the answer is unquestionably "no"), but can he bring enough consistent value as the #2 TE to allow them to continue using it as their base (and hurry-up) formation.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

The two TE system isn't even Josh's thing, we swithced to that with Gronk and the serial killer under O'Brien. Then we were without one of the two TE most of last season. Not to mention they always had to plan for alternatives in case a TE got hurt during the game. The offense will adjust fine, it had to adjust last year and be ready to even further. It would be a bigger deal 12 months ago with less speed at WR. Now we have an interesting crop of young WR and solid depth at TE. The offense will be different but having to change it isn't a big deal to a guy like McDaniels.

I wasn't serious in my post. Read the words in my reply to Deus carefully

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I wasn't serious in my post. Read the words in my reply to Deus carefully

I was really replying to him more than you. We'll be fine - but different - and it's really not a big deal to a big time coordinator like McDaniels.

 

[Brady6]

SUDFELD

Height: 6066
Weight: 253
40 Yrd Dash: 4.78
20 Yrd Dash: 2.80
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 11
Vertical Jump: 37
Broad Jump: 09'05"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 7.08

From a measurable perspective he seems to very comparable to Finely the TE for GB.

Height: 6044
Weight: 243
40 Yrd Dash: 4.82
20 Yrd Dash: 2.79
10 Yrd Dash: 1.65
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 20
Vertical Jump: 27 1/2
Broad Jump: 09'09"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.38
3-Cone Drill: 7.15

Sudfeld needs to hit the weight room though.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Agreed.

But I would say that it is more likely that Ballard equals the 2012 production of Hernandez than Dobson equals the 2012 production of Lloyd.

Gronkowski-Ballard-Hooman-Fells

is one of the very best groups of TE's in the NFL, is it not?

I think Ballard's hype has far exceeded his prior play.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Agreed.

But I would say that it is more likely that Ballard equals the 2012 production of Hernandez than Dobson equals the 2012 production of Lloyd.

Gronkowski-Ballard-Hooman-Fells

is one of the very best groups of TE's in the NFL, is it not?

Fells and OhOh were non-factors last season, and Ballard's coming off serious injury. I think it's asking a lot to expect top level play out of the group. We'll need to see significant improvement out of Fells and OhOh, and a complete recovery plus a jump in play from Ballard, in order to get to the point I think you're aiming for.

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

If by OhOh you are referring to Hoomanawanui he actually played quite well as a FB and inline blocker, which is what we brought him in for. You'll notice not that big of a drop off for us in running the ball after Gronk went down and that's large due to "OhOh."

I agree about Fells though, he's been quite disappointing since his blocking isn't near Hoomanawanui's and his receiving isn't all that hot either.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

While I generally agree, I don't think that we quite need all of that.

I would expect Gronk to come close to his 2012 total of 55 catches, even if he misses a few games as he did last year.

Hernandez caught 51 passes last year (plus 9 for Fells/Hooman). I think if either Ballard or Fells comes back to form, they will be able to total 60 catches (including Ballard/Fells/Hooman). Obviously it's possible that Sudfeld will replace one of the three, but the point remains the same.

Are we really asking all that much for three JAG's TE's to combine for 60 catches in our TE heavy offense?

Fells and OhOh were non-factors last season, and Ballard's coming off serious injury. I think it's asking a lot to expect top level play out of the group. We'll need to see significant improvement out of Fells and OhOh, and a complete recovery plus a jump in play from Ballard, in order to get to the point I think you're aiming for.

 

[PatsFan2]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Agreed.

But I would say that it is more likely that Ballard equals the 2012 production of Hernandez than Dobson equals the 2012 production of Lloyd.

Gronkowski-Ballard-Hooman-Fells:nono:

is one of the very best groups of TE's in the NFL, is it not?

Yeah take those rose colored glasses off mgteich!

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

While I generally agree, I don't think that we quite need all of that.

I would expect Gronk to come close to his 2012 total of 55 catches, even if he misses a few games as he did last year.

Hernandez caught 51 passes last year (plus 9 for Fells/Hooman). I think if either Ballard or Fells comes back to form, they will be able to total 60 catches (including Ballard/Fells/Hooman). Obviously it's possible that Sudfeld will replace one of the three, but the point remains the same.

Are we really asking all that much for three JAG's TE's to combine for 60 catches in our TE heavy offense?

I'm probably sounding like a broken record at this point but BB builds his schemes around the strengths of his personnel. We were a TE heavy offense because we had two of the top 5 TEs in the entire league, not because BB is infatuated with it.

 

[VrabelJr]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

Yeah take those rose colored glasses off mgteich!

Fells was a starter on other teams once before. Hooman was a backup.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

While I generally agree, I don't think that we quite need all of that.

I would expect Gronk to come close to his 2012 total of 55 catches, even if he misses a few games as he did last year.

Hernandez caught 51 passes last year (plus 9 for Fells/Hooman). I think if either Ballard or Fells comes back to form, they will be able to total 60 catches (including Ballard/Fells/Hooman). Obviously it's possible that Sudfeld will replace one of the three, but the point remains the same.

Are we really asking all that much for three JAG's TE's to combine for 60 catches in our TE heavy offense?

I don't look at the team last year as having one of the best TE groups in the league, if you look at how it played out. Gronk was out when AH was in, and vice versa. To me, it was pretty much "One top flight TE and the JAGS behind him" throughout most of the season.

I don't think equalling last year is really all that's needed to be a "best in the league" type of group.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

fair enough

Do you think that this group is likely to produce as much as last year's group?

I don't think equalling last year is really all that's needed to be a "best in the league" type of group.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

fair enough

Do you think that this group is likely to produce as much as last year's group?

Well, a quick count on the numbers gives me 116 receptions from Gronk, AH, Oh Oh, Fells and Winslow, so my initial thought is that they should be able to equal that fairly easilly if Gronk is healthy, and Ballard can be about the same as he was with the Giants (38 catches). A healthy Gronk should provide more than the 55 catches he had last season, so he should cover for any slight dip from the others.

Then, I look at Fells and Oh Oh combining for 9 catches and I see that "needs improvement" aspect that I was talking about regarding the group being among the best.

When I look at it that way, I just don't know. The injury questions (Gronk/Ballard) and the level of play questions (Fells/OhOh) tell me that this could go any direction less/same/more and not surprise me.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I don't look at the team last year as having one of the best TE groups in the league, if you look at how it played out. Gronk was out when AH was in, and vice versa. To me, it was pretty much "One top flight TE and the JAGS behind him" throughout most of the season.

I don't think equalling last year is really all that's needed to be a "best in the league" type of group.

I hate to break this to you, Deus, but given the overall level of TE play in the league, "One top flight TE and the JAGS behind him" is a top 10 unit, in and of itself. Hell, GRONK's 11 TDs, by themselves, are more than every TE unit in the league except Houston, and they only had 12.

 

[manxman2601]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I'm probably sounding like a broken record at this point but BB builds his schemes around the strengths of his personnel. We were a TE heavy offense because we had two of the top 5 TEs in the entire league, not because BB is infatuated with it.

I agree with you about BB building too his strengths, but in terms of the draft, TE is the one offensive skill position he's targeted highly in the draft (two firsts and a second) and pre Gronknandez, he drafted one almost every year. So it's not as though two leading TEs fell into his lap and he thought "well let's go with that", it's a position he's targeted since he's been here.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I hate to break this to you, Deus, but given the overall level of TE play in the league, "One top flight TE and the JAGS behind him" is a top 10 unit, in and of itself. Hell, GRONK's 11 TDs, by themselves, are more than every TE unit in the league except Houston, and they only had 12.

The talk was of a group, not an elite player surrounded by scrubs. I took that part as a given. The Bengals won't have anyone to match Gronk this year, for example, but they'll have Gresham and the rookie (Eifert). Will that be enough to put the Bengals ahead of NE? Maybe, maybe not, but it's certainly not an open/shut situation, IMO. Ballard's still got a hitch in his giddyup, and Gronk's still not on the field. I think it's way too early to make assumptions about their level of play.

 

[belichick010405]

Since this is yet another topic that has veered off course, Sudfield is not a guarantee to make this roster either, no matter what his skill set is and the possible dimension that he brings which could be similar to Hernandez.

With that said - the Patriots have a top 10 tight end grouping if Gronk is healthy and they do not have a top 10 tight end grouping if Gronk is not healthy.

There should be no disputing this considering that even if Hoomanawanui, Fells and/or Ballard make this roster and are playing in-line alongside Gronkowski if and when he returns from PUP status.

The depth at tight end across the league this year has changed for many teams and one can argue that the position, overall, is much weaker than last year just based on Hernandez being released and Pitta out for the year.

In my view - here are the teams that have the top 10 tight end groupings for the 2013 season:

1) Atlanta (Gonzo and Toilolo)
2) Cincinnati (Gresham and Eifert)
3) Dallas (Witten and Escobar)
4) Denver (Dreesen and Tamme)
5) Detroit (Pettigrew and Scheffler)
6) Indianapolis (Fleener and Allen)
7) Minnesota (Rudolph and Carlson)
8) New Orleans (Graham and Watson)
9) Philly (Celek and Ertz)
10) San Francisco (Davis and McDonald)

If Gronk is not healthy, then the Pats do not have a top 10 NFL tight end grouping just based on these teams and I certainly could have included Green Bay as a top 10 tight end grouping (Finley/Crabtree).

If he is healthy and you combine Gronk with Ballard, who is the 2nd most successful tight end that is on the Patriots roster from a statistical perspective, then they are probably a top five tight end tandem and batting New Orleans, San Francisco, Atlanta, Cincinnati and Dallas with the best tight end grouping in the league.