Zach Sudfeld

[jah]

Since this is yet another topic that has veered off course, Sudfield is not a guarantee to make this roster either, no matter what his skill set is and the possible dimension that he brings which could be similar to Hernandez.

With that said - the Patriots have a top 10 tight end grouping if Gronk is healthy and they do not have a top 10 tight end grouping if Gronk is not healthy.

There should be no disputing this considering that even if Hoomanawanui, Fells and/or Ballard make this roster and are playing in-line alongside Gronkowski if and when he returns from PUP status.

The depth at tight end across the league this year has changed for many teams and one can argue that the position, overall, is much weaker than last year just based on Hernandez being released and Pitta out for the year.

In my view - here are the teams that have the top 10 tight end groupings for the 2013 season:

1) Atlanta (Gonzo and Toilolo)
2) Cincinnati (Gresham and Eifert)
3) Dallas (Witten and Escobar)
4) Denver (Dreesen and Tamme)
5) Detroit (Pettigrew and Scheffler)
6) Indianapolis (Fleener and Allen)
7) Minnesota (Rudolph and Carlson)
8) New Orleans (Graham and Watson)
9) Philly (Celek and Ertz)
10) San Francisco (Davis and McDonald)

If Gronk is not healthy, then the Pats do not have a top 10 NFL tight end grouping just based on these teams and I certainly could have included Green Bay as a top 10 tight end grouping (Finley/Crabtree).

If he is healthy and you combine Gronk with Ballard, who is the 2nd most successful tight end that is on the Patriots roster from a statistical perspective, then they are probably a top five tight end tandem and batting New Orleans, San Francisco, Atlanta, Cincinnati and Dallas with the best tight end grouping in the league.

Crabtree is on the Bucs now.

 

[manxman2601]

Since this is yet another topic that has veered off course, Sudfield is not a guarantee to make this roster either, no matter what his skill set is and the possible dimension that he brings which could be similar to Hernandez.

With that said - the Patriots have a top 10 tight end grouping if Gronk is healthy and they do not have a top 10 tight end grouping if Gronk is not healthy.

There should be no disputing this considering that even if Hoomanawanui, Fells and/or Ballard make this roster and are playing in-line alongside Gronkowski if and when he returns from PUP status.

The depth at tight end across the league this year has changed for many teams and one can argue that the position, overall, is much weaker than last year just based on Hernandez being released and Pitta out for the year.

In my view - here are the teams that have the top 10 tight end groupings for the 2013 season:

1) Atlanta (Gonzo and Toilolo)
2) Cincinnati (Gresham and Eifert)
3) Dallas (Witten and Escobar)
4) Denver (Dreesen and Tamme)
5) Detroit (Pettigrew and Scheffler)
6) Indianapolis (Fleener and Allen)
7) Minnesota (Rudolph and Carlson)
8) New Orleans (Graham and Watson)
9) Philly (Celek and Ertz)
10) San Francisco (Davis and McDonald)

If Gronk is not healthy, then the Pats do not have a top 10 NFL tight end grouping just based on these teams and I certainly could have included Green Bay as a top 10 tight end grouping (Finley/Crabtree).

If he is healthy and you combine Gronk with Ballard, who is the 2nd most successful tight end that is on the Patriots roster from a statistical perspective, then they are probably a top five tight end tandem and batting New Orleans, San Francisco, Atlanta, Cincinnati and Dallas with the best tight end grouping in the league.

Philly have James Casey too and have apparently been showing three TE packages with none lining up inline.

 

[VrabelJr]

The differences between those teams in the Top 10 ranking are hair thin and you seem to be giving rookies a whole lot of credit. I wouldn't be surprised if Eifert and Ertz both don't pan out as I wasn't super impressed with either of them. Escobar could be impressive catching the ball though.

As far as Hernandez replacements go, there isn't one. Not on our team and not on any team in the NFL. He was a guy that was 6'1, 245 and moved like he was 200lbs and ran routes as crisp as some of the top WRs. We might not see a player with his size and skill set ever again.

 

[belichick010405]

The differences between those teams in the Top 10 ranking are hair thin and you seem to be giving rookies a whole lot of credit. I wouldn't be surprised if Eifert and Ertz both don't pan out as I wasn't super impressed with either of them. Escobar could be impressive catching the ball though.

As far as Hernandez replacements go, there isn't one. Not on our team and not on any team in the NFL. He was a guy that was 6'1, 245 and moved like he was 200lbs and ran routes as crisp as some of the top WRs. We might not see a player with his size and skill set ever again.

You could be right Vrabel. A couple of things to consider is that if Gronk is not able to regain some of the muscle mass that he has lost then he will be closer to Hernandez's build and if Sudfield adds 10 pounds of top weight then he could have a similar build to Hernandez.

As far as the top 10 rankings that I put together, couldn't agree more when it comes to the rookie tight ends.

I think that Eifert and Ertz will do just fine. I personally think that Eifert will develop in a similar fashion to the other Notre Dame tight ends that are now in the league (i.e. Rudolph) and I think that Ertz is some real potential as does Toilolo since they were both at Stanford.

 

[Brady6]

As far as Hernandez replacements go, there isn't one. Not on our team and not on any team in the NFL. He was a guy that was 6'1, 245 and moved like he was 200lbs and ran routes as crisp as some of the top WRs. We might not see a player with his size and skill set ever again.

Hernandez killed them all..

Joking aside Brandon Ford does offer some similarities in terms of skill set, granted he isn't nearly as talented.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[VJCPatriot]

Sudfield earning some hype?

PatriotsXLVIII ‏@PatriotsXLVIII 50m
Sudfeld from Mallett. Looks like a taller Hernandez. Very smooth in every movement. Ball doesn't make a noise when it hits his hands.

https://twitter.com/PatriotsXLVIII

 

[supafly]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I'm probably sounding like a broken record at this point but BB builds his schemes around the strengths of his personnel. We were a TE heavy offense because we had two of the top 5 TEs in the entire league, not because BB is infatuated with it.

I'd respectfully disagree here--at least on the level that you're suggesting anyway. Belichick has been targeting TE's for many yrs, and I also think that it allows us to keep the same personnel on the field for both the run and pass schemes, which is obviously key in taking advantage of mismatches and running the hurry up offense. We all know that giving Brady and co. more plays and possessions to work with on average is certainly a good thing.

Even with only having both main TE's on the field at the same time last year in 5/19 games, Belichick still ran 2 TE sets over 50% of the time, so it would seem that he's more than happy in using what he's got to still take advantage of other key aspects.

 

[supafly]

As far as Hernandez replacements go, there isn't one. Not on our team and not on any team in the NFL. He was a guy that was 6'1, 245 and moved like he was 200lbs and ran routes as crisp as some of the top WRs. We might not see a player with his size and skill set ever again.

Hernandez did some things very well and his presence allowed us to take advantage of many key traits, but jeez...."we might not see a player with his size and skill set EVER again."

That's really pushing it too far in my opinion. I can't see how Aaron Hernandez is completely irreplacable in the future of the NFL as a whole.

I mean, we obviously know about his good traits and what he brought to the team. All of us would definitely have much rather had him, so there's no debate to that, but let's look at some of the negatives too just to bring things back into a standpoint of reality:

--started 29/48 games here or 60%

--obviously was somewhat injury prone as proven by multiple injuries and amount of games missed over the 3 yr period, which proved to be a little under 1/4 of the season every year

--aside from one great year here, the other 2 yrs had reception totals of 45 and 51 with yardage totals of 483 and 563

so in 2 out of 3 yrs here he had an average of 48--523

--certainly had his share of key drops and penalties, although to be fair I don't personally know how those averages would line up against the majority of other players. The point is that they happened, and many of them in big time settings too. He was definitely human, and he is not irreplacable to the entire future of the NFL


Again--not meaning to sound argumentative with you, but I'd disagree with this thought fully. I'm not even coming close to suggesting that anyone in their right minds wouldn't have wanted to utilize his strengths moving forward or even trying to shortchange his positives. I'm simply saying that there were also things that didn't look nearly as "great" as some here remember and fully disagreeing with the thought that the NFL will never see another TE as good as his "size and skill set."

 

[BB4PRez]

Hernandez did some things very well and his presence allowed us to take advantage of many key traits, but jeez...."we might not see a player with his size and skill set EVER again."

That's really pushing it too far in my opinion. I can't see how Aaron Hernandez is completely irreplacable in the future of the NFL as a whole.

I mean, we obviously know about his good traits and what he brought to the team. All of us would definitely have much rather had him, so there's no debate to that, but let's look at some of the negatives too just to bring things back into a standpoint of reality:

--started 29/48 games here or 60%

--obviously was somewhat injury prone as proven by multiple injuries and amount of games missed over the 3 yr period, which proved to be a little under 1/4 of the season every year

--aside from one great year here, the other 2 yrs had reception totals of 45 and 51 with yardage totals of 483 and 563

so in 2 out of 3 yrs here he had an average of 48--523

--certainly had his share of key drops and penalties, although to be fair I don't personally know how those averages would line up against the majority of other players. The point is that they happened, and many of them in big time settings too. He was definitely human, and he is not irreplacable to the entire future of the NFL


Again--not meaning to sound argumentative with you, but I'd disagree with this thought fully. I'm not even coming close to suggesting that anyone in their right minds wouldn't have wanted to utilize his strengths moving forward or even trying to shortchange his positives. I'm simply saying that there were also things that didn't look nearly as "great" as some here remember and fully disagreeing with the thought that the NFL will never see another TE as good as his "size and skill set."

Agree - would also add that he did not know when to run out of bounds...

Not the best with ball security.

Great athlete and on field skills were worth the contract he signed...but I don't think he was a GOAT type player and should not have been signed to the big contract for other obvious reasons

 

[fnordcircle]

Sudfield earning some hype?

PatriotsXLVIII ‏@PatriotsXLVIII 50m
Sudfeld from Mallett. Looks like a taller Hernandez. Very smooth in every movement. Ball doesn't make a noise when it hits his hands.

https://twitter.com/PatriotsXLVIII

That tweet was strangely erotic.

 

[Oswlek]

Re: Zach Sudfeld, how good can he be for us?

I'd respectfully disagree here--at least on the level that you're suggesting anyway. Belichick has been targeting TE's for many yrs, and I also think that it allows us to keep the same personnel on the field for both the run and pass schemes, which is obviously key in taking advantage of mismatches and running the hurry up offense. We all know that giving Brady and co. more plays and possessions to work with on average is certainly a good thing.

Even with only having both main TE's on the field at the same time last year in 5/19 games, Belichick still ran 2 TE sets over 50% of the time, so it would seem that he's more than happy in using what he's got to still take advantage of other key aspects.

Since the 70's, in fact. And with the Pats, TEs were 2 of their 5 intial first round picks, partly due to need and partly due to Bill wanting some Queens on the board. Neither met expectations, so he tried again in 2006, doing an unsuccessful early attempt at the Gronk/Ahern pairing with the selections of Thomas and Mills.

You can definitely tell how desirous Bill is of having some skill there.

 

[manxman2601]

Studfeld!!!


Great catch below. Let's hope this is indicative:

Inline TE on the far side.

Nevada at Cal - Game Winning Drive - YouTube

 

[BelichickFan]

A little twitter snippet :

Pete Prisco ‏@PriscoCBS 17h

Keep hearing good things about Sudfeld, the rookie TE from Nevada. I remember tweeting about him after bowl game against UofA

Relied to by :

Dan Shonka ‏@Ourlads_Shonka 17h

@PriscoCBS Big, fast and athletic. The only reason he wasn't drafted is 6 surgeries.STUD if healthy

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Studfeld!!!


Great catch below. Let's hope this is indicative:

Inline TE on the far side.

Nevada at Cal - Game Winning Drive - YouTube

He had a very nice block on the Goal line TD run as well. Totally takes his man out of the frame. Thanks for that.

 

[TB12_laser designator]

I like Sudfield and if he keeps up his momentun into the preseason, then I think he'll make the roster. With reports that Ballard was seen hobbling again the other day, I think Sudfield could squeeze him out for a roster spot.

His two shoulder surgeries, one knee surgery, a broken wrist and two leg surgeries (for the one fracture) are a worry though. But I suppose you could regard the wrist and leg break as freak events.

Hopefully though, he has now attained a level of durability, that will be oh so vital for the season ahead.

 

[manxman2601]

I like Sudfield and if he keeps up his momentun into the preseason, then I think he'll make the roster. With reports that Ballard was seen hobbling again the other day, I think Sudfield could squeeze him out for a roster spot.

His two shoulder surgeries, one knee surgery, a broken wrist and two leg surgeries (for the one fracture) are a worry though. But I suppose you could regard the wrist and leg break as freak events.

Hopefully though, he has now attained a level of durability, that will be oh so vital for the season ahead.

We can rebuild him!

Intro - Six Million Dollar Man - YouTube

 

[SONS_OF_BELICHICK]

If Sudfield makes it ...(he wont make it to practice squad)...what TE's make it .....and who gets the axe?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I like Sudfield and if he keeps up his momentun into the preseason, then I think he'll make the roster. With reports that Ballard was seen hobbling again the other day, I think Sudfield could squeeze him out for a roster spot.

His two shoulder surgeries, one knee surgery, a broken wrist and two leg surgeries (for the one fracture) are a worry though. But I suppose you could regard the wrist and leg break as freak events.

Hopefully though, he has now attained a level of durability, that will be oh so vital for the season ahead.

No, any TE who has had surgeries or broken a limb should be cut rather than risk wasting the spot on the 53.

 

[50-yard-line]

If Sudfield makes it ...(he wont make it to practice squad)...what TE's make it .....and who gets the axe?

Maybe Gronk, Sudfield, Hoo-man and Fells ( I think Hoo-man and Fells are locks, honestly - they've both looked very solid in camp) with Ballard on PUP?

 

[TB12_laser designator]

No, any TE who has had surgeries or broken a limb should be cut rather than risk wasting the spot on the 53.

So should we dump Gronk because he's had 5 surgeries this offseason? I did mention in my post that his injury record was a worry for me. But there is a big difference between a soft tissue injury and a fracture.

A fracture is usually a freak event, althought try saying that to Gronk. Generally once the necessary bolting, plating and nailing is completed and removed. They normally tend to heal uneventfully.

Soft tissue injuries, are a whole different animal. Muscle, ligament or cartilage based injuries & damage, is more of an issue because they do tend to carry a higher probability of reoccuring.