will they stay or will they go?

[RayClay]

Ah yes the leaves in the groves are quite beautiful today aren't they??

"Leaves in Groves" That's Walt Whitman, isn't it?

 

[BelichickFan]

I think our best, maybe only, chance is the players looking at McGinest and Givens getting their butts kicked every wekk and thinking "man, that really sucks. $10 over 4 years isn't bad instead of getting $13M over 4 years and really sucking".

Not saying they'll think that but it's our best chance.

 

[SamBam39]

I agree that Koppen, Samuel and Graqham are likely to be gone.

There seems to be a lot of denial going on here. Why would the FO make greater efforts with over-market contracts for this group as opposed to this year's group? Also, why would any of them sign, rather than waiting to see what they can get in free agency?

I would think that the time is now to work on Bruschi (2007), Wright (2007), and Banta-Cain (2006). I think we have a better shot with Banta-Cain than the rest.

I think this outlook is nonsense and excessively negative.
While I agree that we should be concerned and not assume these guys will be here, I also think we needn't assume every player who's contract is due to run out will always be gone.
I'm of the mind that we'll hear about contracts being extended along the line at some point. If not, and all these guys walk, I'll become concerned with where this organization's front office is going with all of this.
I think people are down because Branch left. But that was a singular incident that got out of hand. In all the other cases, I think the pats made good value judgements and executed their plans carefully and skillfully. I see Koppen and Samuel as being players the pats expect to extend, and graham as a player they'll give their best shot to. Just because givens and branch left doesn't mean the pats will never retain another player.

 

[tdw777]

I can see the Pats being competitive with Koppen and Samuel. As much as I like Graham, I can see the Pats letting him walk.

 

[RayClay]

I hate to put a positive spin on anything, but could somebody maybe list the young players we have under contract for 2 years or more?

OK, I'll start. (Please correct me, I have no statistics).

Brady
Seymour
Warren
Wilfork
Mankins
Kaczur
Neal
O'Callaghan
Watson
Dave Thomas
Mills
Maroney
Chad Jackson
Matt Light
Jarvis Green
Mike Vrabel


I think most of them are correct. I believe there are a ton more.

We're going to have to negotiate with Koppen, Samuel and Graham?

We're Doooooooomed! How can we survive?

 

[BelichickFan]

I hate to put a positive spin on anything, but could somebody maybe list the young players we have under contract for 2 years or more?

OK, I'll start. (Please correct me, I have no statistics).

Brady
Seymour
Warren
Wilfork
Mankins
Kaczur
Neal
O'Callaghan
Watson
Dave Thomas
Mills
Maroney
Chad Jackson
Matt Light
Jarvis Green
Mike Vrabel


I think most of them are correct. I believe there are a ton more.

We're going to have to negotiate with Koppen, Samuel and Graham?

We're Doooooooomed! How can we survive?

Ray, the problem is that they're all going to hold out like The Twig. Every single one of them

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

understood. but if it's these three leaving this year, after branch and givens just did, and then say we have 6 more next year, I'm just saying your core would start to erode if every player that became good left.

Maybe we dont' share the same definition for "core player," which is fine, but it seems to me that given Brady, Light, Mankins, Neal, O'Callaghan, Kazur, Dillon, Faulk, Moroney, Watson, Thomas, Mills and Chad Jackson are all signed longterm, a core of offensive starters are in place until at least 2009. The obvious need is for another young, starting WR.

On defense, I think Seymore is to the D what Brady is to the offense. Richard is signed until 2009 as are Wilfork and Jarvis. Warren is bound until '08 as is Hill. I think we can all sleep soundly and not worry about the Dline and its depth for the next couple of years at least. Half of the starting LB crew in Colvin and Vrabel are also signed until '09. Hobbes is signed until '09 and Rodney will be here until '08. While this core on defense isn't as deep as on the offensive side of the ball for the next few year, there still exist enough veteran leadership and ability as a core to build on or supplement. Obviously, we need to bring in more ILBs be they via draft, FA signing or a trade next season, then address the DB situation within the next two years, but I don't think it's all that complicated. Thus, I like how the front office is currently operating. They've signed high draft picks to five or six year deals, sign key vets like Brady, Seymour, Faulk, Light, Bruschi, Jarvis and so forth to long term contracts, occasionally bring in key vets like Colvin, Rodney, Dillon and Miller at market rates, and let guys walk when they want or are offered more than what the Pats brass think they're worth while picking up draft picks in the process.

Having said this, I'd like to keep both Koppen and Asante, especially Koppen, but I hardly think their departures will prove to end this dynasty. Now I'm stumped as to how BB and SP will maneuver past 2009 and 2010. Until then, however, I'm enjoying the ride.

 

[RayClay]

Ray, the problem is that they're all going to hold out like The Twig. Every single one of them

BFan, I honestly think some less valuable player is going to try to pull what Deion did and the Pats are going to bust his nuts.

Politically and value wise, the Pats made the right move. Distraction over and a first round pick.

They could have used him for the stretch run, fined him to the max and then franchised him and traded if they wanted to.

I believe they also could have transitioned him and matched any offer.

Plus Branch didn't mouth off and acted like a gentleman, though his maneuver was of questionable legality.

As long as we are the premier team of the era, teams will over value our players. Tough negotiating and solid drafting is the only way.

I hope we sign all 3 players mentioned. None, outside of Koppen, is the least bit indispensable. I like Samuel a lot and I don't know on Graham.

All depends on what they're asking/offered.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

understood. but if it's these three leaving this year, after branch and givens just did, and then say we have 6 more next year, I'm just saying your core would start to erode if every player that became good left.
I'm gonna assume this is all gonna be handled and most of the time, these players will be extended, but I was just interested in the general concensus.
I don't think branch and givens is gonna be the rule of what's likely to happen, at least I hope not!
ANOTHER QUESTION - DO THE PATS EXTEND THESE GUYS MID-SEASON TO AVOID THEM REACHING FREE-AGENCY?

As far as I can tell, the Pats have tried to wrap up their important players with mid-season or pre-season extensions 100% of the time. In every case that I have ever seen with the Pats, they have tried to resign their players early.

Koppen will get an offer this year, as soon as he shows he is truly healthy.

Samuels will not be offered big money, and I think he is likely to want to test free agency when he sees his offer. He will think he is worth more, due to the large money thrown around at his position.

Grambo is an interesting case because Bioli should have already offered an extension, based on all the past history I have seen. This puzzles me, and when I bring the topic up, all the people that are really certain that Grambo will be back don't have any answer for me.

So all you people that are certain that Grambo will be back, please give a reason why no extension offer has been made in a normal timely fashion by Bioli, and why they drafted two TEs? I am curious and don't have a good answer.

I think one explanation is that Grambo was injuried seriously enough that they wanted to see him recover, like Koppen's situation. In that case, they should be making an extension offer any week now........

I think he gets franchised and traded, and that it gets ugly, sort of like Deion's situation. Based only on rumors, of course. But I would be happy to see him stay!

 

[mgteich]

I'm sure that you siad the same in the last offseason about Givens, Branch, and Vinitieri.

You call it negative. I think that we will be better than any other team over the next 5 seasons. I just don't think outbidding all rest of the teams for Koppen, Samuel and Graham is necessary to that success.

I think this outlook is nonsense and excessively negative.
While I agree that we should be concerned and not assume these guys will be here, I also think we needn't assume every player who's contract is due to run out will always be gone.
I'm of the mind that we'll hear about contracts being extended along the line at some point. If not, and all these guys walk, I'll become concerned with where this organization's front office is going with all of this.
I think people are down because Branch left. But that was a singular incident that got out of hand. In all the other cases, I think the pats made good value judgements and executed their plans carefully and skillfully. I see Koppen and Samuel as being players the pats expect to extend, and graham as a player they'll give their best shot to. Just because givens and branch left doesn't mean the pats will never retain another player.

 

[R_T26]

Whoa hold on guys. Some fans are just willing to except everyone leaving. The same fans who said we cant sign givens and branch because we need to sign samual, koppen, and graham are now willing to just let those guys go. You cant count on every draft pick working out, look at the 2000,2001, and 2004 drafts to prove my point. The Pats are about 30 mill under the salary cap next year and 15 mill this year, their are no salary cap concerns. plus the cap will go up. and salary cap hell is a myth. I believe the krafts thought money was going to branch and law, but next year if they dont spend to the cap i'll get nervous. The pats best seasons were when they were aggressive in the offseason. 2001 they signed like 20 free agents, 2003 they signed colvin, harrison, poole, and got washington, 2004 they added dillon. They need to go back to what made them successfull, with good drafts and signing proven players in FA.