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will they stay or will they go?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SamBam39, Sep 19, 2006.

  1. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    next season, do you think the following three players will be signed to extensions or leave via free-agency?

    Dan Koppen
    Asante Samuel
    Daniel Graham

    aside from any further 'walkouts', these are the three biggest names that are due to have their contracts run out at the end of this season and I'm just wondering if most of you think they'll be extended or not.

    I think all three are good players, but not stars, they are all young and some what talented, and I would think could be signed for a reasonable price, although I think I read somewhere that Graham may have his mind set on leaving and getting a big raise. Thoughts?

    I hate to think we're gonna start losing young guys every year now, and I hope that's not the case.
     
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I've come to think that unless the players you listed sign at the teams' price they'll go despite the cap room. I expect the cap room, instead, to be used for future cap benefits. Seymour's option. Buying down (not out) Brady's deal (by giving him a bonus now and reducing future salaries an equal amount).

    I really think Belichick doesn't care whether he keeps half the roster or not. But in 2-3 years when Warren (after 2008), Wilfork & Seymour (after 2009) come due he'll want to have a lot of money to lock up the keys to his defense.
     
  3. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    all three? you think all three will leave? and more the following year?
    I don't think so. that wouldn't make any sense. you'd be starting to
    cancel out your draft picks with roster loses each year.

    I gotta believe koppen and samuel will get signed - no?
    where are we going if young talent leaves in groves every year?
     
  4. wcda

    wcda On the Roster

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    It they fall with in the Pats price range they will be resigned. If not they are gone. Will make deciding what to do with all the draft picks we have next year a bit easier.
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I guess you could say the same about Branch, McGinnest, Vinatieri, Givens. Who would have thought they'd all be gone this time last year ? :D

    If the players you listed, and TBC too, are willing to take what the Patriots are willing to pay then, yes, I think they'll stay. But I don't think losing any of them would cause Belichick to lose sleep at night. Like Felger said, they're all easily replaceable. Where I differ with him is he used the arguement in favor of re-signing The Twig. Whereas I use it in favor of getting our Cap in shape for the really important signings of Warren, Wilfork, Seymour.
     
  6. PatsRI

    PatsRI PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Koppen and Samuel stay, Graham goes. Koppen - as long as he doesn't ask for crazy money I think BB likes him and will pay him as a top 10 center. Samuel - I don't think anyone will pay him as a good starter and if he's smart (a big if with players these days) he'll realize his best chance to shine is here, where good D coaches cover his flaws. Graham - I think he'll want a good starting TE money and the Pats just have too many other options. He's also supposedley made rumblings about leaving if they don't step up right away (at least I read that here somewhere during all the Branch mania).
    If TBC is up I doubt he'd brake the bank so he'd probably stay too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2006
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

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    I like Samuel as much as the next guy, but how much would you be willing to pay him? We might be able to take our chances with the draft next season.

    I think Koppen is the only one that will return, I'd like to see Graham back but as PatsRI said, he's already said some business about the Pats needing to step up.
     
  8. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose On the Game Day Roster

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    Koppen has to stay. I don't want to mess with the O Line. Would like to keep Asante--but I can see him getting some good offers out there. I'm OK if Graham wants to seek a big pay day. I think Dave Thomas was drafted for just that reason.
     
  9. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    well - I think if they're gonna be extended - our best bet is before they test the free agency market. I'm hopeful koppen and samuel will be extended. I think graham may be, but may want more than he's actully worth. I think it will boild down to how highly bb thinks of him, compared to his own opinion of himself. I think he's a good blocker, but not a tremendous receiver. Pretty good. He was a first round pick though.
    I get the the whole 'only if they sign for what they're worth to the pats' thing, but I also think the pats would be losing ground if they keep drafting players, training them, and then letting them walk after only 5-6 years. I can see it here or there, but not in large numbers. I think they better be able to resign a majority of their players in order to develop the roster and make progress. You also need to develop a team by keeping a core of them together over time. There is a big difference with players like McGinest and Vinatieri who are older, been around a long time, are beginning to decline, and make a lot of money. But the young guys in their prime, unless they're asking for stupid money, hopefully will be extended.
     
  10. desi-patsfan

    desi-patsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think Koppen and Samuel stay. Dan is a question mark. Something tells me he will stay though. Could be just wishful thinking.
     
  11. Mosi Moose

    Mosi Moose On the Game Day Roster

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    Koppen has to stay. I don't want to mess with the O Line. Would like to keep Asante--but I can see him getting some good offers out there. I'm OK if Graham wants to seek a big pay day. I think Dave Thomas was drafted for just that reason.
     
  12. wcda

    wcda On the Roster

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    Lets see if the 3 leave that only leaves 47 other "core" players left. then if a few retire we will still have a solid core of players to build on. I guess their future depends upon their production.
     
  13. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Two words :

    Givens.
    Branch.

    I don't want it to sound like I'm happy about the guys you listed leaving. I'm not. But it is what it is and if they won't sign for what, or maybe a little more than, Belichick thinks they're worth, they're gone.
     
  14. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    understood. but if it's these three leaving this year, after branch and givens just did, and then say we have 6 more next year, I'm just saying your core would start to erode if every player that became good left.
    I'm gonna assume this is all gonna be handled and most of the time, these players will be extended, but I was just interested in the general concensus.
    I don't think branch and givens is gonna be the rule of what's likely to happen, at least I hope not!
    ANOTHER QUESTION - DO THE PATS EXTEND THESE GUYS MID-SEASON TO AVOID THEM REACHING FREE-AGENCY?
     
  15. letekro

    letekro In the Starting Line-Up

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    Ah yes the leaves in the groves are quite beautiful today aren't they??
     
  16. Kdo5

    Kdo5 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Here's how I see it.

    Koppen will be extended.

    Graham I believe he will be extended though there is a decent chance that he may be gone but I love his skills and I'd really like to see him back.

    I can definitley see Samuel back if he isnt asking to be paid a top 10 CB salary or something crazy like that.

    It depends on what they ask for. Koppen to me is the given who needs to be resigned.
     
  17. Poll

    Poll Practice Squad Player

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    Koppen probably will get a good extension while Samuel and Graham can get shorter extension to allow them to be free agents later.
     
  18. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I think Samuel is gone. BB knows that, at best, he's a tweaner; either a really good nickel back or an ok starter. Corners are high profile and in short demand, and someone will offer him way more than he's worth.

    Graham is tricky. If he catches some big passes during a superbowl run, or if he just catches a good number of passes throughout the season his value will go up a lot. If Watson breaks out, as the media is desperate for him to do, Graham may be overshadowed. My best hope when it comes to retaining Graham is that other teams can't sell tickets on "but we picked up Daniel Graham, a big blocking TE!" BB loves versatile players and I see the Pats valuing him a lot, meaning that he should get a pretty good offer from the Pats. Something tells me he's gone, but I hope I'm wrong.

    Koppen I see staying put. The Pats are smart enough to value consistency on the line, and there isn't any hype surrounding him.

    The biggest factor I see effecting negotiating with their own players is how the Pats do this year. If they lose in the AFC playoffs (or don't make them) the dynasty will be considered officially over: look at how popular that opinion is already based on one injury-plagued season. Other teams are less likely to overpay for Patriots after the team has lost its shine. When the Pats win the superbowl again they'll be dubbed the greatest dynasty ever (the media loves its superlatives) and their free agents will see money thrown at them (by the Redskins *snicker*). Dear lord I can already picture Samuel in a Skins jersey.
     
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree that Koppen, Samuel and Graqham are likely to be gone.

    There seems to be a lot of denial going on here. Why would the FO make greater efforts with over-market contracts for this group as opposed to this year's group? Also, why would any of them sign, rather than waiting to see what they can get in free agency?

    I would think that the time is now to work on Bruschi (2007), Wright (2007), and Banta-Cain (2006). I think we have a better shot with Banta-Cain than the rest.





     
  20. Jimke

    Jimke In the Starting Line-Up

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    Graham, Koppen, Samuel, and TBC will get much more in free agency than the

    Pats are willing to pay so they will go.

    The Pats will tender offers to their restricted and exclusive rights free

    agents. They will also re-sign Brown, Davis, Evans, Izzo, and Pass since

    they will come cheap.
     

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