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Will the Loss in SB lead to end of Dynasty?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Gumby, Feb 15, 2008.

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  1. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    Thread title says it all; but hear is what I am thinking.

    1. NYG gameplan against us will be VIEWED as "the blue-print" to beat the Pats offense next year.

    that means everybody in every game is going to be coming at tommy full tilt-full time as it were. If BB can't fix the protection and get a viable running game to counter it; sooner or later tommy is going to end his games started streak. and in the meantime we just could see another couple of close games turn out more like SB XVII than pats-eagles.

    2. we had a mystique building that if you were a aging FA and wanted to get that SB ring.... take less money and go to the Pats; they will get it. Well that theory was busted for Randy and Junior. So maybe it keeps a few other FAs from taking that discount deal when an extra half-mil is on the table in dallas or seattle.

    3. Attracting/keeping FAs-Cap Mgmt. With the acquisition of Randy and franchising of Asante we have shifted the traditional cap management from the meat of the cap in the middle of the team to a larger % of the cap in the top 5 players. This has traditionally been the problem in the FA period of maintaining a dynasty - overpaying at the top end and not having enough left in the middle and bottom to maintain team depth.
    we lost last year's AFCC because of lack of QUALITY depth/speed at LB. And this year SB due to lack of QUALITY depth at OG and LB.


    So will all these factors bring together a collapse of the dynasty; or will BB-Pioli be able to pull more rabbits out of the FA hat and will Cassel be prepared to step up if Brady goes down for 3+ games?????
  2. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Only time will tell.

    Besides which, the Giants had one of the best DLs in the league last season (even if it was inflated by the awfulness of the Philly OL). Just because they were able to do it doesn't mean that other teams will.

    Plus, don't forget that the Patriots should have a healthy Sammy Morris and a more experienced Laurence Maroney available, too.
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    The question is valid although I think so long as we have Bill and Tom it will never be over.

    But you points are way off.

    as to the game plan....Yes the giants had a good one but they are not the first to try it...They had better personell for it, Tom had no mobility (anke possible hernia), THe oline had their worst game as a unit since the days of max lane, and the coaching dropped the ball on adjusting properly.


    As to the Mystique....I think Seau and Junior knew there was no guarentee but also knew it was their best shot.....You think the giants would have been number 2 on their list no it would have been teams like Indy, Dallas, San Diego. We fell minutes short so I don't think this was busted.

    While your third point has some credence I don't think it means the value isn't there at the role player and back up levels just that we have our roster pretty well stocked with talent and we didn't/don't need tons of middle class players every year because they are here already.
  4. #12

    #12 Rookie

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    1. We counterbalanced any gameplans for 18 games, not to mention that we were 2 min away from beating the Giant's game plan. Also if there is any coach to counteract a weakness, BB will fix it. Another thing is most teams do not have the personnel as the Giants did on their dline.

    2. Winning 18 games is still an amazing accomplishment. That doesn't tarnish the successful winning environment of the Pats and I'm pretty sure most will view this as the best CHANCE to win a SB and still the best team in the league.

    3. I think SP and BB do a good job maintaining the cap and will make sure we do not overdue any area. The money last offseason spent addressed some serious issues on the team that really needed an upgrade (Im thinking WR's). Remember that before this season, we went two seasons not being the top seed in the AFC and having to go on the road in the playoffs. We had some glaring weaknesses that returned us to the top this season but I dont see AS many glaring areas this season we need to address as we did the past two seasons (though there are definitely some we need to address).

    As long as BB and TB are here this dynasty will remain intact. Can you imagine the two biggest winners in the NFL accepting defeat? They hate losing too much they'll continue to keep this team at the top.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2008
  5. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    The SB loss didn't "end" the dynasty so much as prevented its revival. Tentatively, the dynasty ended on an errant throw in Denver.
  6. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    IMO that diminishes what a dynasty really is. Dynasties are based on CHAMPIONSHIPS. Ok, we've won a few, now we have to win some more. I didn't hear anyone talking about a Yankee dynasty last year just because Torre & Jeter were still around and they won 4 titles back in the day.
  7. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Rookie

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    If it's the FA's #1 goal to win a SB, then said FA will want to play for the Pats. Asante is leaving for pastures new, but it's because of money, not the desire to win.

    Keep in mind the 49er dynasty went through a three year drought in the mid-80's.
  8. #12

    #12 Rookie

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    Yes I agree Championships are what makes dynasties. I guess its not a gurantee but I do see them getting at least one more, probably a couple. This is why we can't really reflect on the BB/TB dynasty til they've retired. There's too many ifs. If they win another one the dynasty includes these years. You dont look at the niners dynasty as separate entities. They achieved 5 and there was plenty years where they didn't win one but when you look back on that time we see it going from the 80's to the 90's. Same with Pitts. We don't mention the specific years they won vs the ones they didn't. We look at that dynasty as the 70's Steelers dynasty, and they are looked back at as the most dominant team in that decade. Same with this team. They are the most dominant of this era, and if they win another one it will not be two separate dynasties but one dynasty extending over the whole era.
  9. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    there is no dynasty. None of the super bowls were won honestly. As a fan you have nothing to look on with pride now.
  10. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a fair question, asked and posed without any negativity, unlike a couple of similar questions that we've seen recently from trolls.

    My answer is that we can't know right now.

    Anyone who thinks that the final minute SB loss, with the team on the doorstep of a Perfect Season, isn't going to have some impact on the team is kidding themselves.

    In the past, Belichick has been a master of turning adversity into motivation. Will he be able to do it again after arguably the most adverse event on the playing field that the team has faced during his years? I sure hope so, but I don't know.

    As for how this impacts FA's and veterans like Junior Seau; how it impacts players on the roster in their decision to take less money to play here; how it impacts Draft Picks (we have number seven this year) to sign for less than they might have gotten elsewhere...all of that is stuff we just can't know.

    So what does that mean for the "Dynasty?" In my opinion, we've already earned that title with our dominance of the AFC and three SB wins this decade, but I think that we have to win one more SB in the ten years following our first win in order to be legitimately compared to the Steelers and Niners of the seventies and eighties. Brady would have to win one more SB in his career to be put in the same category as Montana. So, that would mean one more win over the next three seasons.

    The bottom line is that I don't think we're going to end up like the Rams, who were getting ready to claim that they were the next NFL Dynasty, before Adam Vinatieri put an end to their dreams and who never did anything else afterwards.

    If I had to bet, I'd bet that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady will win at least one more Super Bowl together for the New England Patriots. Will it be this upcoming season or will we have to wait a few more years? I don't know.

    Thanks for asking the question.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2008
  11. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    +1. If there's no championship in the next two or three years, the dynasty is over.
  12. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    and you have evidence to corroborate your Dolt opinion?

    oh wait...you were out in the field and reading cowpies for signs and you came up with this...got it

    pretty hypocritical of you seeing as how your GM personally rigged the rules for 4 years straight to favor his offense and how you've been caught redhanded using illegal crowd noise to gain a cheating unfair advantage at home
  13. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    You should have a picture with belichick walking away after being ass beaten in the superbowl to complete your classy sig.
  14. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    I believe the same question was asked back in 1988. The 49ers won in 81 and 84 and by 1988 they had gone 3 years without a SB victory.

    Was the Joe Montana era over?

    Whatever defines the dynasty has to leave for true reflection. That means Mr Brady and Mr Belichick. In other words, we just closed chapter 7. The novel isn't finished.
  15. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    hahaha, I want to visit the strange alternate dimension you live in. It sounds like fun. Sorry, but the crowd noise thing has never happened and has never been proven. Goodell just admitted that the patriots cheated every season they won a superbowl. OOPS.
  16. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    The difference, moron, is that nobody ever kissed BB's ass for being classy. Get it?
  17. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    Well I am glad you admit he is an unsportsmanlike child then. We have no further argument. :)
  18. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    My point isnt just case they are here we are still a dynasty my point is so long as they are here we will keep winning Championships.

    If Torre and Jeter had won it all last year you would lump that title in with their other ones as part of that dynasty.
  19. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    blatantly cheated the Steelers in the playoff game...Polamalu didn't intercept that ball??...bwahahahaha....poor Arrrr...so far up Polian's hershey he can see his molars...the Colts DEFINE modern cheating in the NFL....Polian should be criminally prosecuted for fraud
  20. Caspir

    Caspir Rookie

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    Exactly. Winning this year, or last year would have extended the "dynasty" (a foolish term anyways), but it's been over for a couple of years now. The only sad part is that they were an epic second half collapse, and an ill timed blitz away from five championships in seven years. Such is life.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2008
  21. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    hahaha, you are such a sad person. The Colts have never cheated, the Patriots have. Just because you want it to be the other way around doesn't make it so. I'm really happy it upsets you so much though.:D
  22. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    If they were so close to that than how can you say it is over....I say getting that close will be something to remember about this team that will help put them over the top of other 3 time winners and when we get our 4th other 4 time winners.

    I don't think this thing is over until you don't think they have a chanceto win a championship and seeing as vegas has them as odds on favorites next year than I say it is not over....with some hind sight years from now we will be able to better pin point the end of the dynasty but IMO there is still life here.
  23. chrisfx811

    chrisfx811 Rookie

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    Where exactly was it shown the Pats cheated?

    Since the Pats have been doing this since 2000, how is it that, if it's 'cheating', not a single person was able to catch a Patriot employee, openly taping opposing coaches on a wide open sideline with a handheld camera in plain view of thousands of people?

    How was a Pat's employee without credentials able to 'sneak' into the Rams secretive, all important, SB walk thru mere months after 9/11, when security at the SB was at an all time high?

    Why is it one tape supposedly shows an opposing coach waving back at the camera?
    Why do we not hear from a single NFL coach decrying the issue?
    Why do we instead hear former NFL coaches and players coming out and saying that not only is it no big deal, but many of them admit to doing things exactly like it during their tenure?

    I just can't put my finger on it....
  24. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    Sorry, the pats are cheaters, and wishing for it to be any other way won't make it so. You have no super bowl wins. You have no dynasty.
  25. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Arrrr is a regular Dolt troll obsessed with all things Patriot...which is why he comes to a Patriot board and claims I'm obsessed with the Dolts...it must be the water that leads to this peculiar form of insanity
  26. Arrrr

    Arrrr Banned

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    I never said you were obsessed with the Colts, you're just completely delusional about how reality is. The Colts are not cheaters and have never cheated. The same can not be said for the Patriots.
  27. festy1986

    festy1986 Rookie

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    Id say no, the Pats are fine on offense, and now its time to work on making the defense what it was in 03/04.

    However, if the past 3 seasons, and the way the last two in particular ended it just isnt as easy to win it all as we all prolly once believed it to be.

    I thought the way they lost in Indy would be motivation enough not to end a season like that again, I was wrong, this year isnt as worse but the way last year ended I thought that there be no way they would be out played in the SB to cap off a chance at a perfect season. Again, I was wrong.

    Brady is great, but even though the offensive line didnt help, it was his play that changed the SB game. Missed players even when he had time, and thats not him, even when he has been pressured all day. Same thing in the SD game, throwing high, or throwing really low or even behind his WR all game.

    No question something more then what we knew was happening, but the Pats dont make excuses so neither should we.
  28. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    His third point would only have any credence if we were overpaying for talent at the top, and we aren't. We're still underpaying for that with the possible exception of Seymour, and if he performs back to the level he was capable of any time soon he too will remain a relative bargain. We have no one on the roster who is currently the highest paid at the position, although our long snapper used to be... After this FA period we will likely not have anyone on the roster even in the top 5 at their position by AAV or guaranteed value or total contract value or current cap hit other than Brady and Seymour.
  29. #12

    #12 Rookie

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    "Delusions are beliefs that are not backed up by reality. They may remain despite obvious evidence to the contrary, and the fact that nobody else believes them to be true.

    Psychiatry. a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact: a paranoid delusion."

    Here's hoping you get the help you need...
  30. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, the Colts are just owned by a bunch of greedy extortionists who abandoned Baltimore in the middle of the night, and essentially threatened to abandon Indianapolis, too. :snob:
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