Why The Pats Believe In Josh McDaniels, And You Should Too

[Archeryaddict12]

Guesswork is meaningless, as Jackson/Tate/Price should have proven to you already.



No, it's not. Ballard wasn't in the same class before the injury, and he's now working post-surgery.




Then you're too far gone in the Koolaid cups to bother with any further.

Deus just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them a kool aid drinker. It's just a matter of a opinion that you disagree with.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them a kool aid drinker.

This is not news to me, or to anyone else.

It's just a matter of a opinion that you disagree with.

No, it was a silly, Koolaid-guzzling opinion that was justly called such.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

This is not news to me, or to anyone else.



No, it was a silly, Koolaid-guzzling opinion that was justly called such.

Deus at this point its too hard to tell bro. We won't know until we get at least halfway through the season. Remember when this pats team won it all, it was when it seemed impossible.

 

[Danger Zone]

Re: Re: Why The Pats Believe In Josh McDaniels, And You Should Too

This is not news to me, or to anyone else.



No, it was a silly, Koolaid-guzzling opinion that was justly called such.

Someone stating the belief that our WR corps is NOT the worst in the NFL does not make them silly koolaid-guzzlers or blind homers.

 

[Deus Irae]

Deus at this point its too hard to tell bro. We won't know until we get at least halfway through the season. Remember when this pats team won it all, it was when it seemed impossible.

It's not hard to tell, because all we're doing is analyzing based upon what we already have. We're not writing the laws of the universe.

Edelman has a grand total of 69 catches in 4 NFL seasons, had his career best as a rookie, has tallied just 32 receptions in the last 3 seasons, and can't stay on the field. Amendola is a solid player, and he's one I liked as a possible eventual successor to Welker, but he breaks when the wind blows, Jenkins sucks, and the rookies haven't done a damned thing. Saying that, as of now, that's not among the worst WR corps in the league is just lying, to one's self, to others, or to both. It's the sort of crap we mock the fan bases of other teams for doing.

Or do you think Jets fans aren't saying things like "If Hill can catch the ball, and Edwards and Holmes can stay healthy and bounce back, and... and... and...."? It's the song of the blind homers, and it's sung by members of 32 fan bases every offseason.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

It's not hard to tell, because all we're doing is analyzing based upon what we already have. We're not writing the laws of the universe.

Edelman has a grand total of 69 catches in 4 NFL seasons, had his career best as a rookie, has tallied just 32 receptions in the last 3 seasons, and can't stay on the field. Amendola is a solid player, and he's one I liked as a possible eventual successor to Welker, but he breaks when the wind blows, Jenkins sucks, and the rookies haven't done a damned thing. Saying that, as of now, that's not among the worst WR corps in the league is just lying, to one's self, to others, or to both. It's the sort of crap we mock the fan bases of other teams for doing.

Or do you think Jets fans aren't saying things like "If Hill can catch the ball, and Edwards and Holmes can stay healthy and bounce back, and... and... and...."? It's the song of the blind homers, and it's sung by members of 32 fan bases every offseason.

I know it looks weak. But it's hard to not be optimistic because we have gronk, Edelman and amendola already. Really all we need is some catches from vereen or any Rb and for the rookies to replace Lloyd's production and we should be pretty decent. I know it sounds like homerism but you can't be all negative. There is some potential that or receiving corp won't suck.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know it looks weak. But it's hard to not be optimistic because we have gronk, Edelman and amendola already.

Gronk - on shelf
Edelman - 4 years, 69 catches
Amendola - 12 games combined in the past 2 seasons

It's easy not to be optimistic. You just have to choose to be realistic, and the optimism naturally fades away with this bunch. They could become the bestest ever and ever. It's just extremely unlikely for that to happen.

Really all we need is some catches from vereen or any Rb and for the rookies to replace Lloyd's production and we should be pretty decent. I know it sounds like homerism but you can't be all negative. There is some potential that or receiving corp won't suck.

I'm not all negative, at all. There are a lot of good things in NE. They start at QB, and that one strong point alone can cover for a whole host of issues. The 'problem', as it were, is that everything is not perfect, there are issues that the team has, and I'm willing to point them out. That bothers the homers, just as it bothers the haters when I defend the likes of McDaniels, for example.

I just don't worry about those who can't handle the rational, honest discussion.

 

[Archeryaddict12]

Gronk - on shelf
Edelman - 4 years, 69 catches
Amendola - 12 games combined in the past 2 seasons

It's easy not to be optimistic. You just have to choose to be realistic, and the optimism naturally fades away with this bunch. They could become the bestest ever and ever. It's just extremely unlikely for that to happen.



I'm not all negative, at all. There are a lot of good things in NE. They start at QB, and that one strong point alone can cover for a whole host of issues. The 'problem', as it were, is that everything is not perfect, there are issues that the team has, and I'm willing to point them out. That bothers the homers, just as it bothers the haters when I defend the likes of McDaniels, for example.

I just don't worry about those who can't handle the rational, honest discussion.

I see what your saying. The receiving corp is going to revolve around gronk this year. I think we should have a great reciever corp IF amendola, gronk and Edelman prove the injuries have been flukes. I know gronks and amendolas were.

 

[Ring 6]

ROFL

Thank you andy.

OMG were you actually serious that you think Charlie Weis is a better OC than McDaniels? Really?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

OMG were you actually serious that you think Charlie Weis is a better OC than McDaniels? Really?

Let's see. Weiss 3 rings, with a bunch of no name receivers, TE's, RB's except for 04. When Weiss joined the Chiefs, he made them the #1 running team plus Cassel had his best season (pro bowl).

Don't say defense, the Pats D in 06 and 07 was excellent.

Look at what Weiss did in KC then what McD did in Denver or St Louis.

The Pats did run it up on bad teams a lot post-Weiss, so stats-wise Weiss offenses didn't put up monster yards or points in comparison.

This is all moot. The excuses are already baked in this season for injuries and all new receiving personnel.

 

[Deus Irae]

Let's see. Weiss 3 rings, with a bunch of no name receivers, TE's, RB's except for 04. When Weiss joined the Chiefs, he made them the #1 running team plus Cassel had his best season (pro bowl).

Don't say defense, the Pats D in 06 and 07 was excellent.

Look at what Weiss did in KC then what McD did in Denver or St Louis.

The Pats did run it up on bad teams a lot post-Weiss, so stats-wise Weiss offenses didn't put up monster yards or points in comparison.

This is all moot. The excuses are already baked in this season for injuries and all new receiving personnel.

Yes, talent level is just an excuse for poor coordinating, and that's why Charlie Weis won the trophy every year he was a coordinator.


Oh, wait.....

 

[Rob0729]

Let's see. Weiss 3 rings, with a bunch of no name receivers, TE's, RB's except for 04. When Weiss joined the Chiefs, he made them the #1 running team plus Cassel had his best season (pro bowl).

Don't say defense, the Pats D in 06 and 07 was excellent.

Look at what Weiss did in KC then what McD did in Denver or St Louis.

The Pats did run it up on bad teams a lot post-Weiss, so stats-wise Weiss offenses didn't put up monster yards or points in comparison.

This is all moot. The excuses are already baked in this season for injuries and all new receiving personnel.

A bunch of things:

• The Pats' scored 13 points on offense in the Super Bowl vs. the Rams. Other than the last drive (which primarily goes to Brady and his receivers for properly managing it), the offense did nothing.
• In 2003, the Pats don't even make the playoffs if not for the defense. The offense that year was one of the worst in Brady's career. The Pats were 17th in total offense,12th in scoring offense, and 15th in 3rd down conversions.
• Speaking of third down conversions, the best the Pats were ever in this category with Weis was 6th in the league in 2004. That is worst the Pats have been with McDaniels (2005) and they were best in the league twice with him (last year and 2007).
• McDaniels was the Head Coach and defacto GM (although he had a GM, McDaniels had a lot of power over personnel) in Denver and Weis was just a OC in KC. Can't compare the two. Apples and Oranges.
• In 2010 when Weis was the OC of the Chiefs, they were the 12th ranked offense in the league and 14th in points scored. I wouldn't exactly say that is a ringing endorsement for Weis' skills. And let's not forget he was stripped of his play calling responsibilities in the playoffs that year.
• Weis has been stripped of his play calling responsibilities twice in his career (once with the Jets and once with the Chiefs)
• Yes, the Chiefs were the #1 running team under Weis, but that didn't make them a great offense.

I liked Weis, but his mythos has become inflated since he left. People were killing the guy while he was here for being too predictable, giving up on the run, and other things people now biatch about with McDaniels.

 

[sb1]

The Pats went from a 14-2 Super Bowl winner in 2004 to a 10-6 team that lost in the division round in 2005. That is a big drop off.

But if you want to use that as an example, who was in charge of the Pats' offense in 2005? I will give you one guess.

The 2005 Pats had close to the worst pass defense in football. I'd say that had a lot more to do with that dropoff than the offense.

 

[Rob0729]

The 2005 Pats had close to the worst pass defense in football. I'd say that had a lot more to do with that dropoff than the offense.

Yes, and that goes against maverick's argument too because most of the injuries in 2005 were on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[timithye]

The Pats O should turn out to be good to very Good by the end of the season, barring injuries. I expect struggles and a lot of frustration early in the season passing the football, with the O leaning to a heavy dose of the running game. Over the past few years, integrating the new TE and RB into the system, they have shown the ability to simplify or modify the scheme to give the players the best chance of success. Even with the changes at the WR position, the O should still be top ten with TFB running the show.

The D is what needs to make strides and play to their potential, which has been the weakest link over the past few years. Lots of investment on that side needs to start paying off. Can't wait to see the D bringing pressure and actually being able to get off the field.

 

[Ring 6]

Let's see. Weiss 3 rings, with a bunch of no name receivers, TE's, RB's except for 04. When Weiss joined the Chiefs, he made them the #1 running team plus Cassel had his best season (pro bowl).

Don't say defense, the Pats D in 06 and 07 was excellent.

Look at what Weiss did in KC then what McD did in Denver or St Louis.

The Pats did run it up on bad teams a lot post-Weiss, so stats-wise Weiss offenses didn't put up monster yards or points in comparison.

This is all moot. The excuses are already baked in this season for injuries and all new receiving personnel.

"Don't say defense" makes your entire post meaningless.

 

[signbabybrady]

This is not news to me, or to anyone else.



No, it was a silly, Koolaid-guzzling opinion that was justly called such.

I dont think my opinion really has anything to do with koolaid guzzling. I fully believe in BB and Brady and I am a koolaid guzzling fool and I would think it silly not to be.

But my opinion in this case is based on two things the proven skill of Gronk and DA and the fact that the rooks provide depth and then two guys in Ballard and Edelman who have a proven skill set too (just not as good as DA and Gronk).

There is certainly health concerns and you never know what a rookie will give you but bottom line is there is a lot of skill between the TE and WR position and to ignore it because it is not AHERN and Welker is just asinine.

 

[cstjohn17]

The 2005 Pats had close to the worst pass defense in football. I'd say that had a lot more to do with that dropoff than the offense.

I think they vied for the "Wost pass defense" title in 2009,2010, 2011 and 2012

 

[sb1]

I think they vied for the "Wost pass defense" title in 2009,2010, 2011 and 2012

The pass D in 05 was still horrible... although injuries to guys like Rodney plus the Tedy situation didn't help...


Adam Vinatieri's sub par season didn't help the 05 Pats either and that's what probably led to his exit.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

A bunch of things:

[*]McDaniels was the Head Coach and defacto GM (although he had a GM, McDaniels had a lot of power over personnel) in Denver and Weis was just a OC in KC. Can't compare the two. Apples and Oranges.
[*]In 2010 when Weis was the OC of the Chiefs, ...And let's not forget he was stripped of his play calling responsibilities in the playoffs that year.
[/LIST]

I liked Weis, but his mythos has become inflated since he left. People were killing the guy while he was here for being too predictable, giving up on the run, and other things people now biatch about with McDaniels.

You're cherry-picking like crazy.

McDaniels was horrible in St. Louis (last-ranked offense in the entire NFL) when he wasn't the GM and was only the offensive coordinator. So compare apples to apples, KC to St Louis. The talent on that St Louis squad was not dramatically worse than what Weiss had when he arrived in KC. Weiss did a great job in KC turning that offense around. Look at the season he put together compared to the KC offensive seasons both prior and after he left.

Todd Haley was a terrible HC and he clashed with Weiss, which is both why Weiss lost playcalling and also why Weiss left after that season (and you saw the entire KC offense fall apart under Haley after Weiss left).

Also, I don't think Weiss' criticism was ever that he was too predictable, if anything he fell too much in love with creative plays and liked to make non-predictable calls especially on 3rd downs, which infuriated some fans for why he got cute on 3rd and short situations.

As for another poster's comment, the Patriot defense was top-ranked in both 2006 and 2007. It became mediocre to horrible after that especially after the loss of its defensive core players, but the defense in 2006 and 2007 was excellent. Both of those seasons did not end due to the defense.