Why The Pats Believe In Josh McDaniels, And You Should Too

[jmt57]

For the sake of comparison here are the depth charts of the AFC teams.
I'll presume an 11 personnel formation (1 RB, 1 TE) to keep it uniform.
The first line are the projected starters, the second is their backups.
I'll take some liberties on the depth charts - especially with that of the Patriots - so apologies in advance for disagreements on some of the rankings.


AFC East

New England Patriots
Aaron Dobson, Danny Amendola, Kenbrell Thompkins, TE Rob Gronkowski
Michael Jenkins, Julian Edelman, Josh Boyce, Jake Ballard

Miami Dolphins
Mike Wallace, Brian Hartline, Brandon Gibson, TE Dustin Keller
Rishard Matthews, Jeff Fuller, Chad Bumphis, TE Dion Sims

Buffalo Bills
Steve Johnson, TJ Graham, Robert Woods, TE Scott Chandler
Marquise Goodwin, Brad Smith, Marcus Easley, TE Lee Smith

New Jersey Jets
Stephen Hill, Jeremy Kerley, Braylon Edwards, TE Jeff Cumberland
Ben Obomanu, Clyde Gates, Jordan White, TE Kellen Winslow
(I am not including Santonio Holmes: I don't think he will play this year)


AFC North

Baltimore Ravens
Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Tandon Doss, TE Ed ****son
David Reed, Tommy Streeter, Deonte Thompson, TE Visanthe Shiancoe

Cincinnati Bengals
AJ Green, Mohamed Sanu, Andrew Hawkins, TE Jermaine Gresham
Marvin Jones, Brandon Tate, Cobi Hamilton, TE Tyler Eifert

Pittsburgh Steelers
Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Plaxico Burress, TE Heath Miller
Jericho Cotchery, Markus Wheaton, Derek Moye, TE Matt Spaeth

Cleveland Browns
Josh Gordon, Greg Little, Davone Bess, TE Jordan Cameron
Travis Benjamin, Jordan Norwood, David Nelson, TE Kellen Davis


AFC South

Houston Texans
Andre Johnson, DeAndre Hopkins, Lestar Jean, TE Owen Daniels
DeVier Posey, Alan Bonner, Keshawn Martin, TE Garrett Graham

Indianapolis Colts
Reggie Wayne, Darrius Heyward-Bey, TY Hilton, TE Coby Fleener
Nathan Palmer, LaVon Brazill, Griff Whalen, TE Dwayne Allen

Tennessee Titans
Kenny Britt, Nate Washington, Kendall Wright, TE Delanie Walker
justin Hunter, Kevin Walter, Damian Williams, TE Taylor Thompson

Jacksonville Jaguars
Cecil Shorts, Justin Blackmon, Mohamed Massaquoi, TE Marcedes Lewis
Jordan Shipley, Ace Sanders, Taylor Price, TE Allen Reisner


AFC West

Denver Broncos
Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, TE Joel Dreesen
Andre Caldwell, Trindon Holliday, Tavarres King, TE Jacob Tamme

San Diego Chargers
Malcolm Floyd, Danario Alexander, Vincent Brown, TE Antonio Gates
Keenan Allen, Eddie Royal, Robert Meachem, TE John Phillips

Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Bowe, Jonathan Baldwin, Donnie Avery, TE Tony Moeaki
Dexter McCluster, Devon Wylie, Terrance Copper, TE Anthony Fasano

Oakland Raiders
Denarius Moore, Jacoby Ford, Juron Criner, TE Richard Gordon
Rod Streater, Joshua Cribbs, Brice Butler, TE David Ausberry

 

[Rob0729]

I don't know how you could say this when Charlie Weis is the guy who basically installed the Pats' offensive system as we know it. McDaniels has tweaked it, but it started with Weis.

Weis didn't create the offensive system. That system goes all the way back to the 70s. It created by Ron Ehrhardt and Ray Perkins under Chuck Fairbanks. The system has modified over the years and Weis certainly put his fingerprints on many of the upgrades to the system, but so has McDaniels.

Weis didn't create anything. He took an existing system and brought it to the Pats and modified it a bit. But the system that Weis brought to the Pats is different that how they run it now. McDaniels added things like the fast paced offense, far more 5 wide sets, and some of the bunch formations that Weis didn't run.

 

[Danger Zone]

Re: Re: Why The Pats Believe In Josh McDaniels, And You Should Too

There seems to be a mentality among some fans that if a coach or player hasn't succeeded in every single situation they've ever been a part of, that it somehow denotes a fundamental flaw that will inevitably ruin the Patriots season.

In JM's case, he failed as a head coach (as many young coaches do their first time), and struggled in St. Louis with a young QB and minimal weapons. So yes, we know he's not a miracle worker who will take nothing and turn it into a top five offense.

Here's what we also know: He's responsible for two out of the three top scoring offenses in history, and aside from Welker he did it with two different sets of weapons. What that tells me is that when he has talent, he knows how to use it. The talent on this team has question marks, but there is athleticism and smarts in this receiving corp, and if they buy in and develop, McDaniels will put them in the right positions to succeed.

How much more do you actually expect from an OC?

Im just guessing here but I feel that JM failed as a head-coach because he tried emulating Belichick too closely.

I dont think Belichicks style of coaching is a good fit for a young, unproven/first-time head-coach. It would be a recipe for some hard feelings and resentment with the egos of some of these pro-athletes.

You need some age, gravitas and some wins to make a success out of Belichicks method of coaching -a grumpy, disciplinarian father figure that you put aside your own ego for in your efforts to not dissapoint him.. made easier because you know hes actually quite likable beneath the whole businesslike gruffness.

 

[Sicilian]

For the sake of comparison here are the depth charts of the AFC teams.
I'll presume an 11 personnel formation (1 RB, 1 TE) to keep it uniform.
The first line are the projected starters, the second is their backups.
I'll take some liberties on the depth charts - especially with that of the Patriots - so apologies in advance for disagreements on some of the rankings.


AFC East

New England Patriots
Aaron Dobson, Danny Amendola, Kenbrell Thompkins, TE Rob Gronkowski
Michael Jenkins, Julian Edelman, Josh Boyce, Jake Ballard

Miami Dolphins
Mike Wallace, Brian Hartline, Brandon Gibson, TE Dustin Keller
Rishard Matthews, Jeff Fuller, Chad Bumphis, TE Dion Sims

Buffalo Bills
Steve Johnson, TJ Graham, Robert Woods, TE Scott Chandler
Marquise Goodwin, Brad Smith, Marcus Easley, TE Lee Smith

New Jersey Jets
Stephen Hill, Jeremy Kerley, Braylon Edwards, TE Jeff Cumberland
Ben Obomanu, Clyde Gates, Jordan White, TE Kellen Winslow
(I am not including Santonio Holmes: I don't think he will play this year)


AFC North

Baltimore Ravens
Torrey Smith, Jacoby jones, Tandon Doss, TE Ed ****son
David Reed, Tommy Streeter, Deonte Thompson, TE Visanthe Shiancoe

Cincinnati Bengals
AJ Green, Mohamed Sanu, Andrew Hawkins, TE Jermaine Gresham
Marvin Jones, Brandon Tate, Cobi Hamilton, TE Tyler Eifert

Pittsburgh Steelers
Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders, Plaxico Burress, TE Heath Miller
Jericho Cotchery, Markus Wheaton, Derek Moye, TE Matt Spaeth

Cleveland Browns
Josh Gordon, Greg Little, Davone Bess, TE Jordan Cameron
Travis Benjamin, Jordan Norwood, David nelson, TE Kellen Davis


AFC South

Houston Texans
Andre Johnson, deAndre Hopkins, Lestar Jean, TE Owen Daniels
DeVier Posey, Alan Bonner, Keshawn Martin, TE Garrett Graham

Indianapolis Colts
Reggie Wayne, Darrius Heyward-Bey, TY Hilton, TE Coby Fleener
Nathan Palmer, LaVon Brazill, Griff Whalen, TE Dwayne Allen

Tennessee Titans
Kenny Britt, Nate Washington, Kendall Wright, TE Delanie Walker
justin Hunter, Kevin Walter, Damian Williams, TE Taylor Thompson

Jacksonville Jaguars
Cecil Shorts, Justin Blackmon, Mohamed Massaquoi, TE Marcedes Lewis
Jordan Shipley, Ace Sanders, Taylor Price, TE Allen Reisner


AFC West

Denver Broncos
Demaryius Thomas, Wes Welker, Eric Decker, TE Joel Dreesen
Andre Caldwell, Trindon Holliday, Tavarres King, TE Jacob Tamme

San Diego Chargers
Malcolm Floyd, Danario Alexander, Vincent Brown, TE Antonio Gates
Keenan Allen, Eddie Royal, Robert Meachem, TE John Phillips

Kansas City Chiefs
Dwayne Bowe, Jonathan Baldwin, Donnie Avery, TE Tony Moeaki
Dexter McCluster, Devon Wylie, Terrance Copper, TE Anthony Fasano

Oakland Raiders
Denarius Moore, Jacoby Ford, Juron Criner, TE Richard Gordon
Rod Streater, Joshua Cribbs, Brice Butler, TE David Ausberry

Looking at these, I think the best starting WR trio is no question in Denver. After that I would say Miami (on paper), and honestly after that? There's a whole lot of "One good, the rest questionable" or a whole crew of garbage (Jets)

 

[Salva135]

Weis didn't create the offensive system. That system goes all the way back to the 70s. It created by Ron Ehrhardt and Ray Perkins under Chuck Fairbanks. The system has modified over the years and Weis certainly put his fingerprints on many of the upgrades to the system, but so has McDaniels.

Weis didn't create anything. He took an existing system and brought it to the Pats and modified it a bit. But the system that Weis brought to the Pats is different that how they run it now. McDaniels added things like the fast paced offense, far more 5 wide sets, and some of the bunch formations that Weis didn't run.

I didn't mean he literally created it, but the bolded were my points. McDaniels may have had more successful offenses, but the Pats aren't the Pats we know today without Weis.

 

[Salva135]

Also, before we continue bowing at the feet of McDaniels, let's not forget that for all his greatness in 2007, he capped off that season with calling an absolutely terrible game in the Super Bowl. He never once attempted to adjust to the Giants' pass rush with screens or anything else. He also garnered some flack last year with the predictability of his formations that opposing players said allowed them to anticipate run vs. pass plays. He is not without criticism.

 

[Deus Irae]

The point being how does one rate an unknown quantity? I understand that you can assume rookie failures, based on some generic rookie characterization without regard to he player, but that to me is the equivalent of a chemistry experiment in which you grab a handful of random chemicals and say randomly mixing those chemicals has previously resulted in a volatile reaction, so let's assume the outcome with the current random mix so this mixture will be volatile. That proposition, as a matter of science, would be ridiculous.

It's analysis and prediction. It's not designed to achieve a 100% accuracy rate, which is impossible. It's designed to get as accurate at one can. If this were about the Jets QBs, you wouldn't be posting what you're posting. It's only because it's your beloved Patriots, because your post is little more than "don't judge them, please!".

 

[mgteich]

Or one good if he stays healthy and the rest questionable

In our eyes, I wonder what really separates these teams from those with garbage.

Many, many posters have said that we are fine, even with "garbage", since we have Bill, Josh and Brady. I suspect that this situation would be the same if the had the receivers of the worst of the contending teams and perhaps almost any team. Don't we believe that this trio can turn any group of receivers into a productive passing game, as the did in 2007?

Looking at these, I think the best starting WR trio is no question in Denver. After that I would say Miami (on paper), and honestly after that? There's a whole lot of "One good, the rest questionable" or a whole crew of garbage (Jets)

 

[RayClay]

Juries still out on Mcdaniel IMO. The reason Brady isn't his own OC is quarterbacks want to pass all the time. Josh is a great architect of the passing game.

Charlie weiss, on the other hand took less talent and mixed the plays in such a way that he set up defensive misakes at the end of the game. With a young qb, a castoff rb and a couple less than all star WRs, he used them to their best advantage.

McD has at least as good a RB and questionable WRs and we'll see what he gets out of them.

There's no prize for the amount of points piled up in the regular season, remember. With this ?? of WRs, he'll really prove himself this year.

 

[everlong]

One of the things being largely overlooked in this group of receivers is their ability to play in the hurry up offense. NE has abused teams and created matchup nightmares by keeping favorable personnel on the field. It's also allowed them to get running yards in the same manner. Hit a 6-9 yard route underneath and sprint to the line and fast snap it for a quick hitting run. Teams will be more prepared for that this year and if they figure out the Pats can't go hurry up in the passing game with certain personnel they'll load up on the run and take it away. The run game was still too much smoke and mirrors for my liking and not enough we need two yards and you know it and we're going to jam it down your throat.

Even if you expect the rookies to contribute from the start which in itself hasn't proven to be the case minus Branch it's a Red Bull dose of Kool Aid to think they'll pick it up and be effective in the hurry up.

 

[cstjohn17]

I am not worried about the offense, maybe they won't be the greatest show on turf but they should hold their own and the AFC East sucks. For all the glamor the offense needs to perform better in the playoffs, whether is game plan or execution they have laid some fantastic duds over the past several seasons.

Offensive production will be done, hopefully the defense can pick up the slack.

 

[Rob0729]

I didn't mean he literally created it, but the bolded were my points. McDaniels may have had more successful offenses, but the Pats aren't the Pats we know today without Weis.

Yes, he brought the system with him from the Jets, but that doesn't mean that if Belichick brought someone else that they wouldn't have brought the same system. This is a system that Belichick used in Cleveland without Weis. They both basically learned this system while at the Jets.

And I say the Pats aren't the Pats we know today without Brady. Weis' system was a major bust with Bledsoe as the QB.

I am not taking away anything from Weis. He was a great coordinator. What made him great was that he was a great game day manager. Not that he took a system that was already a proven system and brought it to the Pats. Anybody from the Parcells coaching tree could have done that with Belichick's guidance.

 

[signbabybrady]

History tells us what rookies tend to do, which is "not much". Go list all the teams with a worse WR corps than the Patriots, discounting any and all rookies due to their "unknown" status. That's your starting point, and it should explain why people are saying what they are saying.

When it comes to the WR corps, the Patriots are relying on a lot of players to defy the odds/history this season.

Interesting excercise if we are eliminating rookies from the equation than we are really only talking about DA, Gronk, Edelman, and Ballard. I guess Jenkins too but not sure he will even make it.

I dont really see what the panic is? They all have an injury concern but the rookies should be more than adequate back ups. To me this is not a talent concern those 4 guys would stack up very favorable to the rest of the NFL.

I would certainly take this group of four over any group of 4 in the rest of the AFC East and probably over most of the NFL I would bet there are only a handful of teams that health aside I would consider more talented.

Now how many teams can say they have 4 talented receiving options like that and two promising rookies as well?

 

[Rob0729]

Also, before we continue bowing at the feet of McDaniels, let's not forget that for all his greatness in 2007, he capped off that season with calling an absolutely terrible game in the Super Bowl. He never once attempted to adjust to the Giants' pass rush with screens or anything else. He also garnered some flack last year with the predictability of his formations that opposing players said allowed them to anticipate run vs. pass plays. He is not without criticism.

Huh?!? I wish I had Unorginal's incredible breakdown of that game disproving this entire post. McDaniels tried plenty of screens. The problem was the defense was able to bust through the line so easily that even quick screens didn't work.

And let's not act like Weis and most coordinators are predictable at times. Weis ALWAY threw a deep bomb after an INT and ran the FB draw on 3rd and short all the time (and it rarely worked).

 

[jmt57]

Similar to post #21, for comparison's sake here are the NFC WR/TE depth charts:


NFC East

Washington Redskins
Josh Morgan, Pierre Garcon, Santana Moss, TE Fred Davis
Leonard Hankerson, Dezmon Briscoe, Aldrick Robinson, TE Logan Paulsen

Dallas Cowboys
Dez Bryant, Austin Miles, Terrance Williams, TE Jason Witten
Dwayne Harris, Cole Beasley, Anthony Armstrong, TE Gavin Escobar

New York Giants
Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Rueben Randle, TE Brandon Myers
Louis Murphy, Ramses Barden, Jerrel Jernigan, TE Bear Pascoe

Philadelphia Eagles
DeSean Jackson, Riley Cooper, Jason Avant, TE Brent Celek
Arrellious Benn, Greg Salas, Damaris Johnson, TE Zach Ertz


NFC North

Green Bay Packers
Jody Nelson, Randall Cobb, James Jones, TE Jermichael Finley
Jarrett Boykin, Charles Johnson, Jeremy Ross, TE Andrew Quarless

Minnesota Vikings
Greg Jennings, Cordarrelle Patterson, Jarius Wright, TE Kyle Rudolph
Jerome Simpson, Joe Webb, Greg Childs, TE John Carlson

Chicago Bears
Brandon Marshall, Alshon Jeffery, Earl Bennett, TE Martellus Bennett
Eric Weems, Marquess Wilson, Joe Anderson, TE Steve Maneri

Detroit Lions
Calvin Johnson, Nate Burleson, Ryan Broyles, TE Brandon Pettigrew
Mike Thomas, Devin Thomas, Kris Durham, TE Tony Scheffler


NFC South

Atlanta Falcons
Roddy White, Julio Jones, Harry Douglas, TE Tony Gonzalez
drew Davis, Kevin Cone, James Rodgers, TE Chase Coffman

New Orleans Saints
Marques Colston, Lance Moore, Chris Givens, TE Jimmy Graham
Courtney Roby, Kenny Stills, Joseph Morgan, TE Ben Watson

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Vincent Jackson, Mike Williams, Tiquan Underwood, TE Luke Stocker
Kevin Ogletree, David Douglas, Chris Owusu, TE Tom Crabtree

Carolina Panther
Steve Smith, Brandon LaFell, Domenik Hixon, TE Greg Olsen
Ted Ginn, Armanti Edwards, David Gettis, TE Ben Hartsock


NFC West

San Francisco 49ers
Michael Crabtree, Anquan Boldin, AJ Jenkisn, TE Vernon Davis
Mario Manningham, Kyle Williams, Quinton Patton, TE Vance McDonald

Seattle Seahawks
Sidney Rice, Golden Tate, Doug Baldwin, TE Zach Miller
Chris harper, Greg Herd, Brett Swain, TE Luke Willson

Arizona Cardinals
Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Roberts, Michael Floyd, TE Jeff King
Jarett Dillard, Dan Buckner, LaRon Byrd, TE Rob Housler

St. Louis Rams
Chris Givens, Tavon Austin, Brian Quick, TE Jared Cook
Austin Pettis, Stedman Bailey, Nick Johnson, TE Corey Harkey

 

[TruthSeeker]

Also, before we continue bowing at the feet of McDaniels, let's not forget that for all his greatness in 2007, he capped off that season with calling an absolutely terrible game in the Super Bowl. He never once attempted to adjust to the Giants' pass rush with screens or anything else. He also garnered some flack last year with the predictability of his formations that opposing players said allowed them to anticipate run vs. pass plays. He is not without criticism.

I was thinking that during that SB, Weiss would have screened the hell out of the Giants. I remember Faulk and even Corey Dillon helped kill a fierce Eagles pass rush with big gains on screen passes. I don't blame McDaniels for that loss, a lot of players and coaches underperformed. BUT, I think the Pats 2nd half adjustments have been pretty horrible since 2005. You look at the 2006 AFCCG loss, both SB losses, even last year's AFCCG we had a lead at the half. BB and staff have been terrible with 2nd half adjustments.

 

[mgteich]

So, you think that the league should be afraid of Amendola, Edelman, Gronk and Ballard? You think this among the best in the league? Even assuming that all these players are on the field at the same time (tough given their injuries), a competent defense would simply take away Gronk (as a receiver) and attack Brady. This group of four is not nearly one of the best in the league.

We have the best rookie prospects since Price and Tate. Seriously, the team has done all it can. They even hired an extra coach. However, this may take a year or so, if it works out at all.

Interesting excercise if we are eliminating rookies from the equation than we are really only talking about DA, Gronk, Edelman, and Ballard. I guess Jenkins too but not sure he will even make it.

I dont really see what the panic is? They all have an injury concern but the rookies should be more than adequate back ups. To me this is not a talent concern those 4 guys would stack up very favorable to the rest of the NFL.

I would certainly take this group of four over any group of 4 in the rest of the AFC East and probably over most of the NFL I would bet there are only a handful of teams that health aside I would consider more talented.

Now how many teams can say they have 4 talented receiving options like that and two promising rookies as well?

 

[Brady6]

Why Pats believe in Josh McDaniels, and you should, too | WEEI.com | Mike Petraglia

It's often been said - and for good reason - that Brady is the offensive coordinator on the field. But it's McDaniels who puts all the pieces together. Will the Patriots run more? Will they stick with the passing game? How will they use Tim Tebow? All of those questions have to be answered by McDaniels in the next four weeks.

The Patriots have scored over 500 points in the last three seasons, a feat never before accomplished in NFL history. McDaniels and Brady were reunited for the 2011 playoffs and together, helped put 557 points on the board in 2012. They were together in 2007 when the Patriots set NFL records with 589 points and an average victory margin of 19.7 points.

No one is expecting that this season, certainly not at the start, not with all of the new faces in new places.


... ... ...


Another reason New England should believe in McDaniels is that he now, presumably, has a running game that is about to mature into something truly dynamic. Even without Woodhead, the Patriots feel they have star in the making in Stevan Ridley, entering his third season. In Shane Vereen, they have a lot of speed they think can replace Woodhead as a threat in the flat. In LeGarrette Blount, they have a 250-pound bruising back looking to prove people that he isn't washed up at 26. And in Leon Washington, they have a 30-year-old still capable of returning kicks and subbing in on third down.


​

Nice article!

In my opinion the concern for the offense is greatly overstated. We have a tremendous amount of talent.


#1 TE (Gronkowski)
#1-3 QB (Brady)
#3 Slot WR (Amendola)
#6-10 RB (Ridley)
(In NFL)

I'm not sure of another team that has these type of players. Denver and GB have talent but their running games are unknowns,

 

[Deus Irae]

Interesting excercise if we are eliminating rookies from the equation than we are really only talking about DA, Gronk, Edelman, and Ballard. I guess Jenkins too but not sure he will even make it.

I dont really see what the panic is? They all have an injury concern but the rookies should be more than adequate back ups. To me this is not a talent concern those 4 guys would stack up very favorable to the rest of the NFL.

I would certainly take this group of four over any group of 4 in the rest of the AFC East and probably over most of the NFL I would bet there are only a handful of teams that health aside I would consider more talented.

Now how many teams can say they have 4 talented receiving options like that and two promising rookies as well?

You're tossing TEs in with the WRs, though. Right now, the Patriots "known" WR corps essentially consists of Amendola, Edelman and Jenkins, with only Amendola a 'lock'. Everyone complaining that people are down on the WRs should really take a look at that, factoring in both injury and talent.

Patriots current "known" WR corps:
Amendola
Edelman (?)
Jenkins (?)

That's got to be among the worst in the league.

 

[mgteich]

So, Green Bay's running backs are suspect and our wide receivers are not?????

I would point out that rookie running backs do not have anywhere the same issues being productive as rookies, compared to wide receivers. Green Bay has two good ones.

Nice article!

In my opinion the concern for the offense is greatly overstated. We have a tremendous amount of talent.


#1 TE (Gronkowski)
#1-3 QB (Brady)
#3 Slot WR (Amendola)
#6-10 RB (Ridley)
(In NFL)

I'm not sure of another team that has these type of players. Denver and GB have talent but their running games are unknowns,