Who Was the Top 2006 Defensive pats rookie?

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

First off, your projected secondary consists of eight players. That will last approximately six weeks.

Do you do powerball numbers too?

BTW, those 8 listed are the players I'd expect to contribute week in and week out ..... i.e. to be active throughout the season.

Secondly, three players - Harrison, Scott, and Hawkins - are nearing the ends of their careers.

I only need them to help win a SB next season. I'm not building for the future with them

I think the Colts/Ravens playoff game demonstrated the importance of having an impact safeties in the secondary: the Ravens played them deep, coming downhill for picks, and they frustrated Manning all game long, instead of for just a half.

The Ravens also had a secondary, and defense, that was healthy and at 100%. We didn't!

I think there is an opportunity for one rookie corner and safety to make this roster immediately. I'm not saying they WILL be drafted first day, it all depends on who's available and when, but if I was playing percentages for those three first day picks, I'd be looking for the Pats to address the secondary twice.

If those two players are best players at the time, sure. Otherwise, I don't think the Pats will go out of their way to draft DB's ............

 

[jczxohn1]

Who was the Top 2006 defensive pats rookie?

It is time to reload on defense.

In what round was the first defensive player taken last year? Why should we have re-loaded last year when we had guys like TBC, Alexander and Gardner pining away on ST who needed to be sifted through?

No doubt youth nedds to be added in the secondary and LB positions, but IMO if Carricker is available he should be our first pick. Hill and S. Thomas could be dropped, and the eventual loss of one of our down linemen would be covered. Unlikely we can afford to have the most expensive 3 DL's in the league, even if they are worth it.
Cutting the above mentioned would also free up a roster spot in the backfield.

 

[pats63]

Willie Andrews is the best Defense Rockie of the Year...I have high hopes for this young man...I think he is gonna get more snaps this year and more to come...

 

[RayClay]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

Gaffney was the beneficiary of being at the right place at the right time with the right QB tossing him balls. I'll be shocked if he amounts to anything more from here on out.

As for Gay, yes he's been injured. But who hasn't been on defesne? When he hasn't been injured I really liked how he's played. I'm not about to go predicting future health of players but if he can't make it back healthy then I've still got starters in Samuel and Hobbs ahead of him so it's not a big deal. We're talking about a nickel back afterall! And we can always find a vet, like a Scott or Mickens, to fill that role adequately if it's such a big concern.

I don't see our DB situation being anymore of a concern than other spots on the team. Heck, I don't see any position on this team having glaring holes in it. Maybe with backups and the depth players only.

If we had to go into next year with a secondary consisting of:

Samuel - Harrison - Geno - Hobbs
Scott - Sanders - Hawkins - Gay

I'd be perfectly happy and very confident.

That's what a WR is supposed to do. How about that back line of the end zone catch?

BMU, you're a nice guy and frankly you couldn't care if they had high school players on defense as long as they have flashy wide receivers.

Rodney and Artrell are close to the end, Sanders showed some but is still unproven, (was horrible mid year).

Eugene Wilson hasn't played worth a damn for at least a year and a half, which makes him more predictable than Gay who has been injured about 80% of the time in college and the pros.

Chad Scott was a nice pickup who is getting ready for social security also.

Hobbs was benched this year. He has upside but is small and inconsistent.

Mickens is a nickel back only.

In my opinion, if we sign Samuel we will have one defensive back who is above average in performance and reliability.

If AZPatsfan will tell me who those other 12 players are I'll critique them.

 

[mgteich]

The first defensive player taken last year was Mincey in the 6th. Yes, we had TBC, Alexander and Gardner. We were lucky to get Seau for half a year. We have needed linebacker help for at least two years (some of us would say 4-5). TBC was finally a contributer last year, but we could have used much more help from our backups. We could easily add FIVE linebackers, if we could find them. We have four starters and a Ster and a bunch of EDFA hopefuls, Who might not have made any NFL roster last year, if we hadn't kept them.

If the answer is Woods, Alexander and Mays, then we're ready. Let's sign a couple of vets while they develop (say Gardner and Seau) and we'll be ready for the season. I could be convinced of this strategy if we added a mid-level free agent like Hartwell in addition.

In what round was the first defensive player taken last year? Why should we have re-loaded last year when we had guys like TBC, Alexander and Gardner pining away on ST who needed to be sifted through?

No doubt youth nedds to be added in the secondary and LB positions, but IMO if Carricker is available he should be our first pick. Hill and S. Thomas could be dropped, and the eventual loss of one of our down linemen would be covered. Unlikely we can afford to have the most expensive 3 DL's in the league, even if they are worth it.
Cutting the above mentioned would also free up a roster spot in the backfield.

 

[Don Kipines]

All in all, you'd have to say that the Pats' secondary is not awful. There are some good young players back there in Samuel, Wilson, Sanders, Hobbs and even Gay. If and when Samuel resigns, you've got your young plus-player to build around. You add two high picks, or even one, to that group and it's a pretty good group. A Meriweather or a Nelson in there makes them pretty tough, and pretty young. And with Wilson, Sanders, and your draft pick all contributing, anything you get out of Rodney in his last years is gravy. Assuming we spend a high pick on a DB, I really like where the defense is right now.

Let's not forget, either, that outside of San Diego, no one has a young D-Line like we do -- and that's the hardest thing to build.

 

[patsfan55]

no love for pierre woods?

wheres michigan dave when you need him

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

That's what a WR is supposed to do. How about that back line of the end zone catch?

BMU, you're a nice guy and frankly you couldn't care if they had high school players on defense as long as they have flashy wide receivers.

Rodney and Artrell are close to the end, Sanders showed some but is still unproven, (was horrible mid year).

Eugene Wilson hasn't played worth a damn for at least a year and a half, which makes him more predictable than Gay who has been injured about 80% of the time in college and the pros.

Chad Scott was a nice pickup who is getting ready for social security also.

Hobbs was benched this year. He has upside but is small and inconsistent.

Mickens is a nickel back only.

In my opinion, if we sign Samuel we will have one defensive back who is above average in performance and reliability.

If AZPatsfan will tell me who those other 12 players are I'll critique them.

Ray, not sure why this is so difficult to understand but I am indeed VERY pleased to have Samuel and Hobbs as this teams starting corners. They are young, proven, playoff experienced and will only get better. I have zero worries about our starting corner position at the moment and highly doubt any draft pick would supplant either come the start of the season.

As for nickel corner, I think Gay has tremendous upside and the times he's started and played for us I have been very impressed. If he was our starting nickel back I'd be very confidant that he's the man for the job. Yes I am concerned about his inability to stay healthy but am banking on his bad luck stopping. I think it's possible that a drafted rookie could step in and unseat Gay for the nickel spot but I don't think it's a major need because I am a strong believer that you need experienced corners as backups in BB's defense .... just in case. Now whether or not that player is Scott or Mickens or someone else not yet on the team I don't really care as long as that player has pro experience.

As for safety. I believe strongly that Geno is a pro bowl caliber player if he's surrounded by a stable grouping of battery mates. And, unlike in recent seasons past, that will be the case this time around. I am a huge fan of Sanders and believe it's just a matter of time before he is a stud for us at SS.

I'm all for signing these guys long term and keeping them together for the long haul.

So, I'm not really of the opinion that drafting a rookie corner or safety is a major need. Of course, if a stud DB drops in the draft and is waiting there for us @ 24 then yeah, I'm all for grabbing him, but I don't think the liklihood of that happening is all that high. Having said this I do support the drafting of a DB with any of our picks if that player is the teams highest rated player at the time. I just don't see the Pats drafting a DB primarily because they see it as a badly needed spot to fill on the team.

As for WR's I'm still not overly impressed with our starters (mainly because of all the ? surrounding them) but, at least they are more capable today than they were a week ago.

I am also of the opinion that this teams coaching strength lies on the defensive side of the field and if this team is going to have any suspect areas of personnel it can be on that side of the ball. I think we need to be as good as possible on the offensive side of the ball with the coaching we have available there.

 

[tigerbait1220]

the only real reloading i think the pats need to do is to get some backups for the d-line and the secondary. drafting a LB to be groomed by some of the best in the business would be another good way to go, but i do like our starting secondary of wilson, harrison, hobbs, and samuel. with hobbs showing much improvement throughout the season and samuel showing more signs of being a shut down corner the pats will have even more opportunities to put pressure on the qb (peyton manning) this year. OL is a quasi-issue, that can be addressed in the draft and the later months of free agency so im not too worried about that. once again the pats have put themselves in a situation to draft pretty much whoever they want and that is always a good thing.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

Ray, not sure why this is so difficult to understand but I am indeed VERY pleased to have Samuel and Hobbs as this teams starting corners. They are young, proven, playoff experienced and will only get better. I have zero worries about our starting corner position at the moment and highly doubt any draft pick would supplant either come the start of the season.

As for nickel corner, I think Gay has tremendous upside and the times he's started and played for us I have been very impressed. If he was our starting nickel back I'd be very confidant that he's the man for the job. Yes I am concerned about his inability to stay healthy but am banking on his bad luck stopping. I think it's possible that a drafted rookie could step in and unseat Gay for the nickel spot but I don't think it's a major need because I am a strong believer that you need experienced corners as backups in BB's defense .... just in case. Now whether or not that player is Scott or Mickens or someone else not yet on the team I don't really care as long as that player has pro experience.

As for safety. I believe strongly that Geno is a pro bowl caliber player if he's surrounded by a stable grouping of battery mates. And, unlike in recent seasons past, that will be the case this time around. I am a huge fan of Sanders and believe it's just a matter of time before he is a stud for us at SS.

I'm all for signing these guys long term and keeping them together for the long haul.

So, I'm not really of the opinion that drafting a rookie corner or safety is a major need. Of course, if a stud DB drops in the draft and is waiting there for us @ 24 then yeah, I'm all for grabbing him, but I don't think the liklihood of that happening is all that high. Having said this I do support the drafting of a DB with any of our picks if that player is the teams highest rated player at the time. I just don't see the Pats drafting a DB primarily because they see it as a badly needed spot to fill on the team.

As for WR's I'm still not overly impressed with our starters (mainly because of all the ? surrounding them) but, at least they are more capable today than they were a week ago.

I am also of the opinion that this teams coaching strength lies on the defensive side of the field and if this team is going to have any suspect areas of personnel it can be on that side of the ball. I think we need to be as good as possible on the offensive side of the ball with the coaching we have available there.

How many more WR do you think we need to add before we address the defense?

Hobbs, is proven and playoff experienced? Is that why he was benched in favor of Chad Scott mid season?

I'm glad you have faith in Gay and Wilson. They say that faith can heal and they have about 4 years worth of injuries between them in the last 5 years.

You haven't mentioned Rashad Baker. I imagine he's another DB of the future since they were using him in the AFC championship game.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

How many more WR do you think we need to add before we address the defense?

Hobbs, is proven and playoff experienced? Is that why he was benched in favor of Chad Scott mid season?

I'm glad you have faith in Gay and Wilson. They say that faith can heal and they have about 4 years worth of injuries between them in the last 5 years.

You haven't mentioned Rashad Baker. I imagine he's another DB of the future since they were using him in the AFC championship game.

Hang on. You are missing my point.

My point is simple ..... I don't believe this team has any glaring weaknesses that absolutely needs to be addressed early come draft day. Not at corner, not at safety, not at WR, not at LB ...... nowhere. As such I believe the team will draft best available player with each pick. If that means getting a WR or a corner or a safety early then so be it but I don't believe the Pats are faced with a situation where they enter the draft believing that they must draft a DB early because they suck at that position right now. You obviously feel otherwise and that's fine. It's your perogative.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

Hang on. You are missing my point.

My point is simple ..... I don't believe this team has any glaring weaknesses that absolutely needs to be addressed early come draft day. Not at corner, not at safety, not at WR, not at LB ...... nowhere. As such I believe the team will draft best available player with each pick. If that means getting a WR or a corner or a safety early then so be it but I don't believe the Pats are faced with a situation where they enter the draft believing that they must draft a DB early because they suck at that position right now. You obviously feel otherwise and that's fine. It's your perogative.

OK, here's my reasoning. Gaffney's our #1 receiver based on his play last year, (21 receptions in 3 playoff games). Seems like a go to guy already. He also had between 34 and 55 receptions every year. He was a high second round choice too. I don't know what's wrong with this guy besides not being new, shiny and expensive.

Say Stallworth's the speed guy and Welkers the possession guy, I think we don't need more than jags after that, but we still have Caldwell with 61 catches and Washington with all that potential.

So we're also going to draft a WR high?

What about Jackson, did you forget about him? Last years Christmas present lose it's luster already? How do we keep 5 NFL vets and two top unproven college players happy on the same team?

And why would we want to when a top safety, CB or ILB probably steps in and starts in a year?

Ellis Hobbs is heade to nickel back as soon as we get a replacement. Rodney has incurred a lot of injuries for someone his age in the last few years. Wilson? when is the last time you saw him make some plays, 1 1/2 years ago?

Where not going to draft players for other teams waiver lists. LB is a mysterious thing on this team. A.D. is a big piece. I doubt the rest will come from high picks, probably low picks and F.A.

It's a myth tha the Patriots ever draft the BPA. BB has said before he would never draft a player they couldn't use. There are virtually no trades in football, why would you do that?

BB will take a shot at a guy like Mills in a low round figuring he could use him after Dillon, Pass etc. He took Watson when it seemed we didn't need him, but he intended a 2 TE offense.

With 2 low #1's we have flexibility. If there's a sane reason to take on another raw WR, I don't know it, but I've been wrong before.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

OK, here's my reasoning. Gaffney's our #1 receiver based on his play last year, (21 receptions in 3 playoff games). Seems like a go to guy already. He also had between 34 and 55 receptions every year. He was a high second round choice too. I don't know what's wrong with this guy besides not being new, shiny and expensive.

Say Stallworth's the speed guy and Welkers the possession guy, I think we don't need more than jags after that, but we still have Caldwell with 61 catches and Washington with all that potential.

So we're also going to draft a WR high?

What about Jackson, did you forget about him? Last years Christmas present lose it's luster already? How do we keep 5 NFL vets and two top unproven college players happy on the same team?

And why would we want to when a top safety, CB or ILB probably steps in and starts in a year?

Ellis Hobbs is heade to nickel back as soon as we get a replacement. Rodney has incurred a lot of injuries for someone his age in the last few years. Wilson? when is the last time you saw him make some plays, 1 1/2 years ago?

Where not going to draft players for other teams waiver lists. LB is a mysterious thing on this team. A.D. is a big piece. I doubt the rest will come from high picks, probably low picks and F.A.

It's a myth tha the Patriots ever draft the BPA. BB has said before he would never draft a player they couldn't use. There are virtually no trades in football, why would you do that?

BB will take a shot at a guy like Mills in a low round figuring he could use him after Dillon, Pass etc. He took Watson when it seemed we didn't need him, but he intended a 2 TE offense.

With 2 low #1's we have flexibility. If there's a sane reason to take on another raw WR, I don't know it, but I've been wrong before.

As I have stated elsewhere. The way the Pats roster spots at WR is structured they might very well have only have 1 bonafide starting caliber WR (Welker) this time next season. Who knows what Stallworth's future is beyond this year. Ditto Washington. Flip a coin whether or not jackson will amount to anything and Cal;dwell and Gaffney are both UFA's after the season and are nothing but marginal starters in this league anyhow. If the Pats brass believes that they might only have 1 bonafide starting caliber WR signed for next season (Welker) then I think it's very possible that they look to the draft to find another WR. Maybe even early if the draft shakes out that way.

I'm not exactly sure why you are so down on the defensive players we have starting on this team? Heck, last years defense was as good a Pats defense I have seen and one of the top ones in the league. Our offense sure couldn't say the same thing .........

 

[captain stone]

Bob and Ray, thanks for the entertaining dialogue this morning.

OT: wasn't Bob and Ray a comedy team during the '70s? If memory serves, comedian Chris Elliot ("Late Night w/ DL", "Cabin Boy") is the son of one of them. I also recall an NBC special they hosted with Jane Curtin, Larraine Newman and Gilda Radner. One of the skits was a parody of Rod Stewart's "Do You Think I'm Sexy?" that was wicked funny.

Back to topic: The 32 points allowed in the 2nd half should prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a major upgrade in talented depth for the back 8 is a must. Right now. There are very serious question marks at ILB and FS; that they have not been answered through free agency - yet - is very disquieting to me. Two more DB possibilities have been signed by Tennessee. The number of quality FA ILBs and DBs shrinks daily. I am hopeful, but not optimistic, that an ILB and DB can be signed before Monday.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

As I have stated elsewhere. The way the Pats roster spots at WR is structured they might very well have only have 1 bonafide starting caliber WR (Welker) this time next season. Who knows what Stallworth's future is beyond this year. Ditto Washington. Flip a coin whether or not jackson will amount to anything and Cal;dwell and Gaffney are both UFA's after the season and are nothing but marginal starters in this league anyhow. If the Pats brass believes that they might only have 1 bonafide starting caliber WR signed for next season (Welker) then I think it's very possible that they look to the draft to find another WR. Maybe even early if the draft shakes out that way.

I'm not exactly sure why you are so down on the defensive players we have starting on this team? Heck, last years defense was as good a Pats defense I have seen and one of the top ones in the league. Our offense sure couldn't say the same thing .........

The defense that had the biggest collapse in playoff history? The one with Eric Alexander at ILB and Rashad Baker at safety?

I'm not down on those players at all, infact I think it's a credit to them and the coaches that they weren't exposed until the playoffs, (Bye TBC).

 

[RayClay]

Bob and Ray, thanks for the entertaining dialogue this morning.

OT: wasn't Bob and Ray a comedy team during the '70s? If memory serves, comedian Chris Elliot ("Late Night w/ DL", "Cabin Boy") is the son of one of them. I also recall an NBC special they hosted with Jane Curtin, Larraine Newman and Gilda Radner. One of the skits was a parody of Rod Stewart's "Do You Think I'm Sexy?" that was wicked funny.

Back to topic: The 32 points allowed in the 2nd half should prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a major upgrade in talented depth for the back 8 is a must. Right now. There are very serious question marks at ILB and FS; that they have not been answered through free agency - yet - is very disquieting to me. Two more DB possibilities have been signed by Tennessee. The number of quality FA ILBs and DBs shrinks daily. I am hopeful, but not optimistic, that an ILB and DB can be signed before Monday.

As a matter of fact they started on WHDH radio in Boston.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Back to topic: The 32 points allowed in the 2nd half should prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a major upgrade in talented depth for the back 8 is a must. Right now. There are very serious question marks at ILB and FS; that they have not been answered through free agency - yet - is very disquieting to me. Two more DB possibilities have been signed by Tennessee. The number of quality FA ILBs and DBs shrinks daily. I am hopeful, but not optimistic, that an ILB and DB can be signed before Monday.

Hey cap. Doncha think that if BB and company felt as though the secondary was in disarray that they'd have directed more $$$$ and time towards improving it with immediate help rather than rely on the possibility that some rookie draftee will solves all of their ailments? I mean look at how active this team has been trying to remedy the inept secondary of ours

Meanwhile, they are adding every Tom, ****, Bob and Ray they can get their hands on at WR. You think they might believe that the real problem on this team last year was WR and not the secondary?

 

[RayClay]

If the Pats don'r resign their WRs, I'm in favor of never drafting a WR again. From all the 1st and 2nd draft picks that are lusted after then discarded after a year or two, I think free agent WRs are an incredible bargain.

If we could pick up linebackers or DBs as solid as Caldwell and Gaffney, we'd be talking about our SB victory over the Bears right now.

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

Re: Who Was the Top 2006 Deensive pats rookie?

The defense that had the biggest collapse in playoff history? The one with Eric Alexander at ILB and Rashad Baker at safety?

I'm not down on those players at all, infact I think it's a credit to them and the coaches that they weren't exposed until the playoffs, (Bye TBC).

Injuries to starters, a tired out defense thanks to a woefully inpet offense, caused this not lack of talent with the starters.

Unless you can predict the future and can say for certain that our secondary will be hurt next year .........

 

[captain stone]

As a matter of fact they started on WHDH radio in Boston.

Was the WHDH radio studio located in the building that's now a bank, next to the Bayside Expo? I believe the TV studio was there, before WHDH-TV lost its licence to WCVB.