Where Is The Pats Deep Threat At????

[TomPatriot]

Inactive and waiting . . . with 4.2 40 speed.

 

[borg]

No they haven't. Brady, only completing one true "deep" ball (on that long pass play to Welker where he caught it about 25 yards downfield), still threw for 320 yards against a quality defense that did everything they possibly could to deny the Pats the short-mid range pass game.

It is normal for the Pats to perform a little bit worse against good defenses than they do against lesser defenses. It's normal for *every* team to perform a little bit worse against good defenses. That's, um, why they're good defenses.

They scored 13 points relying on the pass. Is that good enough?
They tried ZERO play actions on 15 3rd downs attempts.
They went to the shot gun on 14 of 15 3rd down attempts.
Zero catches by a traditional TE. And lets be honest, without Gronk, AHern is a traditional WR
Welker is the NE deep threat
Lloyd has zero play making skills after the catch
The 320 passing yards accumulated was between the 20s and then the Baltimore defense squeezed them effectively.

NE conceded they lost the LOS battle forcing them to shot gun a disproprtionate number of plays eliminating play action and any ability to fool the LBs. NE had no over the top potential, the sideline completions resulted in self tackling. The NE offense tried to live in the middle of the field yet didn't deploy TEs into patterns, RBs into the flats.
Yes, execution was poor, but lets not understate the fact that Baltimore owned the LOS forcing NE to become one dimensional on third down. Lousy coaching, failure to understand their own tendencies (hot gun shot gun shot gun), and inadequate personnel for the offense they had to run. Listen, I love the Welkers and Hernandez's and what they bring to the offense, but asking welker to be the only NE deep threat or Hernandez to be a traditional WR is asking them to be more than they are. Lloyd......he's a third down move the chains guy but doesn't deserve to be a 3 down WR, not with his lack of play making skills with the ball.

 

[Rob0729]

They scored 13 points relying on the pass. Is that good enough?
They tried ZERO play actions on 15 3rd downs attempts.
They went to the shot gun on 14 of 15 3rd down attempts.
Zero catches by a traditional TE. And lets be honest, without Gronk, AHern is a traditional WR
Welker is the NE deep threat
Lloyd has zero play making skills after the catch
The 320 passing yards accumulated was between the 20s and then the Baltimore defense squeezed them effectively.

NE conceded they lost the LOS battle forcing them to shot gun a disproprtionate number of plays eliminating play action and any ability to fool the LBs. NE had no over the top potential, the sideline completions resulted in self tackling. The NE offense tried to live in the middle of the field yet didn't deploy TEs into patterns, RBs into the flats.
Yes, execution was poor, but lets not understate the fact that Baltimore owned the LOS forcing NE to become one dimensional on third down. Lousy coaching, failure to understand their own tendencies (hot gun shot gun shot gun), and inadequate personnel for the offense they had to run. Listen, I love the Welkers and Hernandez's and what they bring to the offense, but asking welker to be the only NE deep threat or Hernandez to be a traditional WR is asking them to be more than they are. Lloyd......he's a third down move the chains guy but doesn't deserve to be a 3 down WR, not with his lack of play making skills with the ball.

Several things:

• Welker isn't the Pats' deep threat. Gronk is and he is fairly effective at it.
• Lloyd may have zero after the catch ability, but he gets first downs at a fairly reliable rate. That is valuable. Plenty of elite WRs had zero after the catch ability most notably Marvin Harrison.
• The fact that most of the yardage was between the 20s highlighted the loss of Gronk was the major reason the Pats' offense sputtered, not a deep threat.
• The Pats didn't concede they lost the LOS battle. As Bedard pointed out, other than Vollmer, the line held up pretty well to the pass rush on Sunday.
• You are too cute about Lloyd. You call Lloyd a third down WR, but he doesn't deserve to be on the field on third downs because he has no yards after the catch ability. You complain the Pats couldn't convert third downs and concede that Lloyd has an incredible rate of converting third downs, but don't want him on the field when they need to convert third downs. You would rather have a guy on third and 10 get a screen pass behind the line of scrimmage and run for 8 yards leading to a 4th and 2 rather than Lloyd who might catch an 11 yard pass and go down right away. You put far too much emphasis on this who YAC.

 

[Rob0729]

The offense and personnel was built around the two TE package. So yes without Gronk, they become limited. And the reality is, without the TE that the whole offense is built around, NE must deploy your traditional NFL offense with WRs that can layer the secondary. Unfortunately, BB failed at fielding a descent Plan B of WR options. Welker as deep threat? Lloyds lack of play making skills with the ball. AHerns lack of speed. Then factor in the teams refusal to use the remaining TEs in the passing game. Just the wrong package of players for the traditional 3 WR,1 TE, 1 RB package.
Problem can be solved this off season with 1 signing/draft pick....get a down field threat which would give NE two properly constructed offensive packages, not the one they have now (with Gronk)

Yes, this offense is a complete mess. If we didn't have a superior defense, this would be a two win team. Belichick and McDaniels know nothing about putting together an offense. If they listened to you, they might have had the third scoring offense of all time.

Seriously, don't you get it. If any team's best and elite receiving weapon goes down, it limits what the offense can do whether it is a TE like Gronk or a deep threat Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, or whoever. Detriot had the #2 ranked passing offense. If Megatron went down, do you think their offense would become much easier to defend? It is the same thing with Gronk.

Gronk like Megatron or Larry Fitzgerald or any elite deep threat WR requires teams to game plan around him. You take away an elite player who teams have to game plan around and that team becomes easier to defend.

Seriously, I wonder if the Pats had Moss in his prime still instead of Gronk and he was out on Sunday and the Pats' offense sputtered like it did would people complain that this teams needs a big TE who can block for the run and fight for balls over the middle.

At full strength, this offense is as unstoppable as any offense with a stud deep threat WR.

 

[PatsFan2]

Rob you make justifications for everything just to try and prove YOUR POINT! Gronk is not the Deep threat we are talking about here. Yes he does damage over the middle and is a difficult match-up when healthy. But Gronk doesn't slove the NEED for a Big Play WR's who threathens the Entire Field. You and some others think that Lloyld was an all world outiside WR threat I and many others inlculding former players like Troy Brown and Ty Law and most recently the Ravens Defense beg to differ. I am on the boat that IF BB doesn't get a Big Play game changing WR in this Offense...we will NEVER sniff another SB. Good Defenses have caught up to the Wes Welker lead N.E. Patriots Offense.

 

[Snake Eyes]

If they listened to you, they might have had the third scoring offense of all time.

What good is a record breaking offense if it flounders in the playoffs? We used to laugh at the Colts for that exact thing.

 

[Rob0729]

What good is a record breaking offense if it flounders in the playoffs? We used to laugh at the Colts for that exact thing.

When the Pats had a deep threat in Moss, all the Pats did was win Super Bowls?!? Teams just might have well as just not showed up because we all know the Giants didn't?!? And the Pats won Super Bowls in the early 2000s because they had the chuck and duck offense with tons of deep threats like Troy Brown, Deion Branch, and David Givens?!?

The reason why we laughed at the Colts was because they were soft with no defense. Not because they lacked a deep threat because they actually had a very good deep threat in Reggie Wayne. If the Pats had Gronk in the offense, they were not soft. So let's go out and get deep threat and let Welker go and make the total conversion to the Colts offense.

 

[Rob0729]

Rob you make justifications for everything just to try and prove YOUR POINT! Gronk is not the Deep threat we are talking about here. Yes he does damage over the middle and is a difficult match-up when healthy. But Gronk doesn't slove the NEED for a Big Play WR's who threathens the Entire Field. You and some others think that Lloyld was an all world outiside WR threat I and many others inlculding former players like Troy Brown and Ty Law and most recently the Ravens Defense beg to differ. I am on the boat that IF BB doesn't get a Big Play game changing WR in this Offense...we will NEVER sniff another SB. Good Defenses have caught up to the Wes Welker lead N.E. Patriots Offense.

And you root for the Pats to lose to come out of hiding to complain and tell everyone you knew the Pats sucked.

I was countering borg's point that Welker is the Pats deep threat. Gronk is used for the Pats' deep threat. He isn't a traditional deep threat WR. Never claimed he was.

And your stupid argument that the Pats would never sniff another Super Bowl without a big play WR is so moronic, it is laughable considering the Pats were leading the Super Bowl last year with a little over a minute left in the game with Gronk hobbled. If Gronk was healthy last year, the Pats probably win the Super Bowl. If he was healthy this year, they might be playing a week from Sunday. So your claim the Pats won't sniff the Super Bowl without a deep threat WR is laughable based on the facts.

 

[PatsFan2]

And you root for the Pats to lose to come out of hiding to complain and tell everyone you knew the Pats sucked.

I was countering borg's point that Welker is the Pats deep threat. Gronk is used for the Pats' deep threat. He isn't a traditional deep threat WR. Never claimed he was.

And your stupid argument that the Pats would never sniff another Super Bowl without a big play WR is so moronic, it is laughable considering the Pats were leading the Super Bowl last year with a little over a minute left in the game with Gronk hobbled. If Gronk was healthy last year, the Pats probably win the Super Bowl. If he was healthy this year, they might be playing a week from Sunday. So your claim the Pats won't sniff the Super Bowl without a deep threat WR is laughable based on the facts.

This is coming from a guy who thinks Lloyd is great...you're laughable.

 

[Deus Irae]

Rob you make justifications for everything just to try and prove YOUR POINT! Gronk is not the Deep threat we are talking about here. Yes he does damage over the middle and is a difficult match-up when healthy. But Gronk doesn't slove the NEED for a Big Play WR's who threathens the Entire Field. You and some others think that Lloyld was an all world outiside WR threat I and many others inlculding former players like Troy Brown and Ty Law and most recently the Ravens Defense beg to differ. I am on the boat that IF BB doesn't get a Big Play game changing WR in this Offense...we will NEVER sniff another SB. Good Defenses have caught up to the Wes Welker lead N.E. Patriots Offense.

Rob's gotten his points pretty well lined up in this thread. It's not his fault if people like Borg and yourself can't see beyond "They lost, everyone must go!".

 

[PatsFan2]

Rob's gotten his points pretty well lined up in this thread. It's not his fault if people like Borg and yourself can't see beyond "They lost, everyone must go!".

We will see who BB agrees with in March so for now lets just agree to dissagree.:snob:

 

[Deus Irae]

We will see who BB agrees with in March so for now lets just agree to dissagree.:snob:

What does Belichick have to do with you being wrong because you go about spouting off without thinking?

 

[Rob0729]

This is coming from a guy who thinks Lloyd is great...you're laughable.

Lloyd was pretty solid this year for what he was which was a #2 WR who was in a TE heavy offense with an elite TE catching the ball for 10 games. There aren't many #2 WR who produced the same or better numbers as Lloyd did this year.

 

[supafly]

IF BB doesn't get a Big Play game changing WR in this Offense...we will NEVER sniff another SB.

Well we surely "sniffed" a SB in the past 2 years without one, didn't we?

They had the lead in last yr's SB with a little over 2:30 remaining in the game, and were down 1 point in the 4th quarter in this year's AFCCG.

Both games really, were without Gronkowski.

I may be wrong, but I didn't see any of the other 3 teams this past weekend losing out on their skill position players, let alone their #1 threat outside of QB. I'm not making excuses, but to say that we won't sniff another SB is probably just not true.

ATL: J.Jones, Roddy White, Gonzalez, Turner, Ryan

SF: Crabtree, Moss, Walker, Davis, Gore, Kaepernick

BAL: T.Smith, Boldin, Rice, Pitta, J.Jones, Flacco

 

[coolguy]

No they haven't. Brady, only completing one true "deep" ball (on that long pass play to Welker where he caught it about 25 yards downfield), still threw for 320 yards against a quality defense that did everything they possibly could to deny the Pats the short-mid range pass game.

It is normal for the Pats to perform a little bit worse against good defenses than they do against lesser defenses. It's normal for *every* team to perform a little bit worse against good defenses. That's, um, why they're good defenses.

Brady threw for 320 yards off 52 attempts

 

[ivanvamp]

Brady threw for 320 yards off 52 attempts

Yep, that's correct. It just means instead of ripping down the field in a handful of plays it took them longer, that's all. But they still got down the field pretty well.

You just aren't likely to win when you score 13 points on 8 trips inside the opponent's 35 yard line.

 

[Brady2Moss]

What does Belichick have to do with you being wrong because you go about spouting off without thinking?

It appears Deus Irae is the only person on this board capable of thought or so he would have us all believe. :bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

It appears Deus Irae is the only person on this board capable of thought or so he would have us all believe. :bricks:

Rob's gotten his points pretty well lined up in this thread. It's not his fault if people like Borg and yourself can't see beyond "They lost, everyone must go!".

:bricks:

Read, and think, before posting....

 

[DocHoliday]

There's nothing wrong with the offense when it's healthy.

It's just depth that it's lacking. When a TE gets injured it sputters. So we go 3WR and that sputters with Edelman out.

Solution? Get depth to keep 2TE useful without one of Gronk or Hernandez (Ballard?) and get a athletic deep threat to keep 3WR useful if forced to go there.

We don't need to blow the offense up, just give it backups capable of letting it chug along.

 

[dannydyn]

Just trade WW and BL for Julio Jones and Roddy White