Welcome to PatsFans.com

What's with Seymour?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Bostonian1962, Nov 27, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I know Seymour has missed alot of time getting ready for the season, so please don't jump all over me for bringing this up, but when is he going to start playing like a Pro Bowl player? Heck, when is he going to play like a decent player?

    How many tackles, assists, QB hurries, caused fumbles, deflected passes, sacks did this monster of a player have against the Eagles?

    Answer: 1 tackle, 1 QB hurry, and ZERO in every other category. By the way, he had all ZERO's against Buffalo. Nothing. No stats. He played, didn't he?

    Since he signed the big contract, he hasn't done squat. Look at Wilfolk and Warren getting double teamed more than Seymour. The days of Seymour's lack of stats being a result of double teaming are over. Last year, the excuse was he was hurt. This year it'll be all the time he missed. Maybe we should be looking at the player himself?

    Let's hear your thoughts. Please refrain from slamming me, and just address Seymour. I'm very sensitive, and it's the holiday season.:)
  2. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I agree. Seymour, in my opinion, is the most OVERRATED NFL player. Sorry, but the guy is a glorified run stopper getting paid to be Reggie White. I know I will have the homers bashing me again for saying this about him, but that is just the truth, It's funny how everyone calls Freeney overrated, but Seymour gets a free ride for his play. The guy is OVERRATED big time.
  3. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    And, while we're on the topic, why the hell do we have to lose Asante Samuel and keep paying Seymour's overrated arse? Why can't we cut Seymour, pay Asante, and use our top 5 pick to draft a DE or DT? Jarvis Green is more than capable of filling in for Seymour as the starting DE. Does anyone honestly believe we need Seymour more than Asante? It's absurd. :mad:
  4. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    3,274
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Whew....I thought there wouldn't be any intelligent responses to this fair-minded thread.
  5. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    ive been saying foir some time green is a better player
  6. Drewwho

    Drewwho Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Seymour is huge and not in a good way. He got fat and is out of shape.
  7. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I really dont see anything wrong with his response. I think the problem with Seymour is a combination of alot of things. Now, before I start jumping to any conclusions on what needs to be done with him, I reserve the chance to watch the rest of the season play out. Hopefully, his play will pick up as the season progresses and in the playoffs he'll return to his former self. If he doesnt pick it up, then we have some choices to make.

    I also have to state that for whatever reason, I dont think there is any way Asante is going to re-sign with this team. I hope I'm wrong.
  8. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    And chews his food with his mouth open. He's a disgrace in every sense. You'd think that a 3-time Super Bowl winner would feel that he was obligated to pull his weight. What a slug . . . The rest of the D-Line has been carrying this guy since 2001, and it's time it came to an end!

    To all those wannabe head coaches on this thread, I say Keep Troy, cut Seymour. Yeah, that's the ticket!
  9. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Wow. Once again, somebody brings up a valid point and gets called a wannabe coach. Were we wrong when we questioned why the hell we brought in Monty Beisel and Chad Brown? Were we wrong when we thought Bethel Johnson was a BUST? Were we wrong when we thought Duane Starks was an awful acquisition? I know this may shock the grey hoodie wearers out there, but the great Bill Belichick does make mistakes and some players on this team do underperform and are OVERRATED. Seymour gets paid to be a DOMINANT defensive linemen. He does not get paid to be a non-factor. Jarvis Green can give us what Seymour gives us at a fraction of the cost. Cut Seymour and keep Asante. That's my new rallying cry!:D
  10. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    From 2001 on, he's missed all or part of 21 games, so at least in those games somebody had to carry him. He wasn't carrying himself.
  11. Slagathor

    Slagathor Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    When Seymour was in his first few seasons with us, he seemed to play with alot more fire and enthusiasm.

    I don't see it anymore.

    IMO....he's one of these guys that allowed the money and success to kill his competitive enthusiasm.

    I don't see him overweight or out of shape. He just doesn't have the fire in the belly anymore.
  12. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2006
    Messages:
    2,419
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    The point about Seymour missing a decent amount of playing time is a fair one--I think injuries tend to be cyclical, so I would expect him to be pretty healthy going forward, but there are no guarantees.

    Pointing to his stats, however, is foolish. Seymour's game has never been predicated on generating huge numbers--it's just not the way the Pats D has been structured.
  13. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,727
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    My Jersey:

    #12 Jersey
    Seymour is not playing well period. I do not know if it is injury related or not. He is being handled quite easily and sometimes by only 1 guy.

    This may be a case where he continues functioning as a one legged warrior for the rest of the season.

    I still do not think Green can hold up vs. the run and pass for an entire season. Same with Wright. The jury remains out on K Brown.
  14. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Slagathor, I hope you're not correct about this, but am afraid that you might be. We've all seen him when he's a freak out there. It just seems so long ago.
  15. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I knew somebody would bring up the stat thing, and I agree with you. Surely though, if a player has 1 total tackle in the last two games, it "could" mean he's not producing. Now, if you match that up with the game film (or in my case TIVO), it confirms that fact. He didn't produce last year either.

    I assume this post of mine will light a fire under him, and you'll all thank me later, as will he, with a heftly check made out to me. :)
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2005
    Messages:
    19,949
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    With no camp and no pre season he is limited to working himself back into game shape, which is very different than mere football shape. That said, my concern about Seymour is value based and tied to his durability or lack thereof going forward. I think that is why he is on a 3 year extension as opposed to the 6-7 year Freeney-esque mega deal many presumed he would get.

    On Sunday night Madden noted his ineffectiveness (as part of the reason our pass rush was not proving terribly effective) and attributed it to the knee still bothering him. He did not say if that was just something he was surmising or if he had heard that to be the case. Seymour has been prone to injury over roughly half of his 7 season to date career, he's appeared to be a slow healer as well and a player who has to be 100% in order to play effectively.

    It's no knock on his talent. Just that unless you can get on the field and stay on the field and play to your potential on that field talent is immaterial. And on this defense as presently constructed front 7 and the play of the DL in particular is critical because we do not have an all pro secondary, just a very good one that can manage well behind an exceptional front 7 that stuffs the run and gets consistently good pressure on the QB. Even in blitz mode we weren't getting sufficient pressure on Feeley Sunday. Earlier in the season when Green was playing, we were getting pressure even without blitzing. Could be coincidence or not.

    As for the dipstick who wants to cut him to keep Asante, his dead cap would be $12M or $6M per in 2008 and 2009 so his cap savings would only be around $2M in 2008 and $5M in 2009 before you factor in the cost of Green's replacement as the high quality backup and the increase Green would command as a starter who is only signed through 2009. :rolleyes:
  17. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,677
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Seymour is probably ticked off that he is not making Dwight Freeney

    money. He will probably approach the Patriots at the end of the

    season (if he has not already) to have his contract torn up. I

    expect him to be a holdout during the spring and summer and

    lobby for a new contract even though his current contract runs

    up thru the 2009 season. Show me the money.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2007
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    Seymour is so bad every year he gets voted by his peers to the Pro Bowl.. do you ever watch him during a game??, he is consistently double teamed and primarily is supposed to hold his spot which he does. This is not a statistic driven defense, so the numbers do not mean all that much. Try keying on him if you can and watch what he does, and how many people are on him. Assante is worth the cash, but not at Seymour's expense.
  19. patsgo

    patsgo Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,466
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    LET HIM THE PATRIOTS ARENT FOOLS
  20. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    15,718
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    With or without injury, Seymour is no longer even being mentioned as one of the best DEs in the league.

    Ever since he got his big new contract and fat bucks he has not been the same dominating player earlier in this decade - and that is when he is healthy so save the injury excuses for another time.

    Jarvis Green is a more impact player,Maybe not as overall talented on paper as Richard earlier in his career but nevertheless the defense gets no worse - like it or not its the truth at this point
    But I agree it would not be in the best interests of this team to trade Richard,He is still worthy of being a prominent defensive figure when he is at his best - which is sporadic these days.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2007
  21. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:


    Yeah that makes complete since cut a player that has made pro bowl because he is having a few tough games transtion FROM AN INJURY. I am offically changing your name to NST with the T for troll because in almost all of your posts you say negative things about the player the coaches or the other memebers of this fantastic site.

    And in case you hadn't notice Seymour typically get double teamed (not this year yet i admit) and that almost always frees up other rushers.
    and as for your new rallying cry we all know that will change as soon as Asante doesn't have a pick in a game.
  22. National Sports Advisors

    National Sports Advisors Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,020
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    You don't read all my posts then. I have absolutely NOTHING bad to say about a lot of players on this team. Brady, Moss, Light, Asante, Koppen, Welker, Stallworth, etc.... I have a problem with a few guys on this team that, in my opinion, are not earning their paychecks. Excuse me for calling it like it is.
  23. rabthepat

    rabthepat Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,549
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    I have watched Seymour after plays get up and have to stretch out his leg. I think he is still hampered by the injury. We may not see the real Seymour until next year. The guy has been a great player and did not lose it over night.

    He'll be back you'll see.
  24. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,154
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    So basiclly the players that are putting up the statstical numbers are good but the ones that don't have good numbers are bad. Your amount of football knowlegde staggers me
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2007
  25. ALP

    ALP Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
    Messages:
    7,401
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    hey, its not only us that see Seymour doing badly...its everyone....

    he sucks now, and he has sacked the last few years...i dont know if its the money, i hope not, but i assume so....

    hopefully when he comes back, hell be good....hopefully in the playoffs he can be good again...hopefully...

    i dont want to wait until next year, i dont wanna have the pats let go of asante just to give seymour another yr to prove himself, being a 7yr pro....i dont think so...

    if he continues this throughout the season, and BB knows its not due to injury, trade him
  26. ClevTrev

    ClevTrev Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If I felt there was enough knowledge of the game rather than statistics gawking and gut feel, I'd take this thread seriously; however, there can be a myriad of things going on with Seymour, and no one other than Seymour and BB really understand it. It appears that he is not contributing. Right, it appears he is still playing and playing a lot of minutes. BB does not play ineffective players a lot of minutes. Keep your new rallying cry. It suits you.
  27. LiveShot

    LiveShot Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    Messages:
    749
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    If he wasn't doing his job Belichek would bench him. BB doesn't give two ****s about a player's rep he only cares about results. So as long as he is starting one must think Belichek is OK with that.
  28. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    What I find curious is that you presented a case built only upon tackles and sacks, and ignored everything else. What if he is being asked to hold the point of attack to make something open up for the LBs? What if he's being double teamed? What if a lot of stuff that don't translate to sacks or tackles?

    What if that was the point of a 3-4 defense?

    I do believe in the 3-4 defense you should see the LBs and safeties making most of the tackles and sacks. Since when does a NT or tackle make a bunch of sacks. Send him as a DE man up and he'll probably get you your sacks.

    But if the coach says don't do that, I say don't do that. I believe the coach knows what he's doing. Don't you?
  29. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2005
    Messages:
    13,261
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

  30. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    My Jersey:

    But what is "like it is"? I don't see Wilfork getting sacks. Don't you think that might have something to do with what he's being asked to do? So me saying that Wilfork is not getting sacks is "like it is" sounds a bit disingenous. If I cannot establish that Wilfork or Sey were being asked to penetrate against DTs, then I can't say that no sacks is "like it is".

    Mostly like, on most plays, "like it is" is that they were not asked to penetrate or make the tackle.

    I would assume this is the way it usually works in the 3-4 alignment. DT is not a glory position. Why try to turn it into one is my argument with the OP. The OP based his whole argument based upon what *HE* thinks Sey should be doing out there. I'm sorry, that is just too lame to take seriously.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page