What scares me.

[RayClay]

Re: Whats scares me.

Using the history of injuries we've had in the seconday over the past couple of years, why don't you help me press it.

If you lose a guy like Eugene Wislon and/or lets say Asante, I promise you the panic button is gonna get worn out.

In my opinion, getting passed Indy, Cincy and even a team like Miami will be very difficult. Say what you want about Culpepper. Give him an opportunity to throw to Chambers as he did to Moss, it could be scary.

Show me a team that could withstand 6 dbs on IR including their leader and best player.

 

[Clonamery]

Re: Whats scares me.

Scott has looked horrible.

From a recent press conference:
“I think Chad’s had a real good camp,†Belichick said. “Chad had a good spring. Chad works hard, he’s a real pro. I have a lot of respect for Chad. He’s smart. He’s tough. He prepares very well. He’s a great example to the younger players, he’s very helpful to the younger guys. He does a lot of different things for us, defensively and in the kicking game. He’s very willing. He and Artrell Hawkins are two guys last year that I haven’t had a lot of background with that came to the team as kind of new players, and I thought both of them gave us a lot of leadership, they’re good players and good for the team.

Please re-evaluate your opinions.

 

[JackBauer]

I think he just made that one up.

 

[Slagathor]

Re: Whats scares me.

From a recent press conference:
“I think Chad’s had a real good camp,†Belichick said. “Chad had a good spring. Chad works hard, he’s a real pro. I have a lot of respect for Chad. He’s smart. He’s tough. He prepares very well. He’s a great example to the younger players, he’s very helpful to the younger guys. He does a lot of different things for us, defensively and in the kicking game. He’s very willing. He and Artrell Hawkins are two guys last year that I haven’t had a lot of background with that came to the team as kind of new players, and I thought both of them gave us a lot of leadership, they’re good players and good for the team.

Please re-evaluate your opinions.

Being the honorable man that I am. I'll lay down a couple of cases of Sam for anyone who'll wager with me that the Pat's Pass D will be in the bottom third for Pass D this upcoming season. Call it ranked 24th or higher. If they do any better than that, I'll happily deliver the brew to your door.

I'll take a few wagers at that. Don't mind filling up the fridge.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Whats scares me.

Being the honorable man that I am. I'll lay down a couple of cases of Sam for anyone who'll wager with me that the Pat's Pass D will be in the bottom third for Pass D this upcoming season. Call it ranked 24th or higher. If they do any better than that, I'll happily deliver the brew to your door.

I'll take a few wagers at that. Don't mind filling up the fridge.

Or you could admit that you're wrong about Scott.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Whats scares me.

SAFETIES
As of now we have a street free agent (someone no one wanted) and a STer turned nickel back as our starting safeties, with a couple of special teamers as backups.

In what dream world do we believe any of these would be starters for a playoff team elsewhere?

CORNERS
We can say that Hobbs and Samuel are top corners, certainly number #2's elsewhere, along with super vets Chad Scott and Warfield. I think it is the kool-aid talking.

Wilson is simply a question mark at corner. He has no experience covering #1 receiver in the NFL, and being being double-teamed. I would much rather we keep him as safety, and have a solid set of safeties by midseason.
=============================================

Perhaps we start the year with a secondary as good as won the three Super Bowls. That does not take into account injuries. It also doesn't make the secondary even average in the league. We won with below average secondaries, with aweful depth. That was great. That we won doesn't make then better, any more than getting to the SB with turnstile guards.
===============================================

As for Chad Scott, I think he is still an unknown quantity. However, I had him penciled in as a starter last year, and now with Law not coming, he again has a good chance to compete for that position.

 

[Slagathor]

Re: Whats scares me.

Or you could admit that you're wrong about Scott.

Never. I'd rather have Chad have me eat crow by performing on the field.

BB has always shown great respect for vets before he lets them go!

 

[Kdo5]

I gotta tell you, alot of folks on here are thinking we're too thin at LB and WR, but that ain't the problem.

I predict we'll be well into the bottom third in passing defense.

Our DB's are the worst I've seen in the Kraft era. Yes, even worse than the Chris Canty days.

Who's our #1 DB. Wilson? Great FS, but unproven one on one againts top-flight NFL receivers.

Hobbs? I've see some great athleticism but more hot air than anything else. Even from what I've heard from camp and and looking at 2005-2006, he get's burnt deep alot. Bravado only gets you so far.

Gay? Let's see if he's healthy. At best he's an average #2 CB.

Asante looks very good at times, but physically and athletically, he also no more than a good nickelback.

Rodney. His successful rehab will be the difference between us making and not making the playoffs this year. Easier schedule or not. The competitions gotten alot tougher. We haven't.

Add to this, a problem with stature. Any "good" receiver over 6'1" will have career days against us.

The secondary is a HUGE hole, outweighing any other roster issues we have by a longshot.

Will a little more QB pressure up front solve the problem? Not enough in my opinion.

That would be because Wilson hardly ever played at CB once they switched him to FS. Back at Illinois was Wilson was a beast. Top 6 in all time INT's and shattered records with 60 + Pass deflections overhis 3 years of playing time.

I dont know what your speaking of about Hobbs. They said in numerous reports he had tight and very good coverage on Caldwell most of the time it just that Caldwell made some spectacular catches.

Samuel gets so much oppurtunities to make plays and last year he finally started making them near the end. He can be a big time play maker when he gains confidence.

Gay I've only seen for 1 year but after 2004 I thought he could do a very good job. The injury hurt him, but he can get better easily than 2004 but he came in and played very nicely. Made some good plays, pick against the Dolphins, scooped up fumble and TD vs the Browns. Forced fumble in the Superbowl.

BB seems to be thinking highly of Chad Scott. Who knows about Warfield. Hank Poteat was a nickle back last year.

Sanders has supposedly shown some good stuff and possibly a starter for FS if Wilson makes the full transition. Harrison will come back, Hawkins showed what he could do at SS and along with Hobbs brought confidence to the secondary. Tebuck, former starter and Guss Scott. Seriously the panicking over DB's goes back to last years troubles. What I'm looking at possibly for the starting on opening day is.

SS Artrell Hawkins
FS James Sanders
CB Eugene Wilson
CB Asante Samuel OR Ellis Hobbs OR Randall Gay.

Why doubt Wilson when you havent even seen him go at CB as a starter. If he gets the hang of it again and can play like he did at Illinois I have no troubled thoughts about him.

All the negative stuff about Asante Samuel...jeez. He played with switching Safeties all season played starting #1 CB against some great WR's like Marvin Harrison. I'll cut the guy some slack especially after he impressed me with his great improvement throughout the season. I'll take him and Wilson as the #1's.

 

[patsox23]

I gotta tell you, alot of folks on here are thinking we're too thin at LB and WR, but that ain't the problem.

I predict we'll be well into the bottom third in passing defense.

Our DB's are the worst I've seen in the Kraft era. Yes, even worse than the Chris Canty days.

Who's our #1 DB. Wilson? Great FS, but unproven one on one againts top-flight NFL receivers.

Hobbs? I've see some great athleticism but more hot air than anything else. Even from what I've heard from camp and and looking at 2005-2006, he get's burnt deep alot. Bravado only gets you so far.

Gay? Let's see if he's healthy. At best he's an average #2 CB.

Asante looks very good at times, but physically and athletically, he also no more than a good nickelback.

Rodney. His successful rehab will be the difference between us making and not making the playoffs this year. Easier schedule or not. The competitions gotten alot tougher. We haven't.

Add to this, a problem with stature. Any "good" receiver over 6'1" will have career days against us.

The secondary is a HUGE hole, outweighing any other roster issues we have by a longshot.

Will a little more QB pressure up front solve the problem? Not enough in my opinion.

This post is asinine on myriad levels. Off the top of my head - "worse than the Chris Canty days?" As though somehow Chris Canty was at ALL a part of the secondary?

Secondly, I'm not sure I'm up for conceding that Randall Gay is an average #2 CB, but YOU are saying he is, to which I respond - What the F would be wrong with that???

Third...let's see...the secondary is very likely to be BETTER this year than it was last year so I'm not sure how you can make the claim that this thread is based on in the first place.

Fourth - the odds that we will get LESS production from Rodney Harrison this year are long indeed. The guy played for about 5 seconds last year. Even if he were to start the year on PUP, he'd still give us more over the second half of the season.

Fifth - James Sanders and Hobbs are very likely to play better this season, since they've been in the system and are probably going to make some kind of "jump." According to camp reports, Sanders certainly has.

Honestly, you need to relax and take a breath. LB depth and WR depth (even with Deion) are way bigger concerns than this.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Whats scares me.

Being the honorable man that I am. I'll lay down a couple of cases of Sam for anyone who'll wager with me that the Pat's Pass D will be in the bottom third for Pass D this upcoming season. Call it ranked 24th or higher. If they do any better than that, I'll happily deliver the brew to your door.

I'll take a few wagers at that. Don't mind filling up the fridge.

Oh God, another Rotisserie Baseball stat freak! Where are we getting them?

This just after the thread that veered into the Donnie Edwards "Yards Per Tackle" worthless stat.

The Pats won SB 36 and 38 with two very mediocre "Yards Given Up Per Game" secondaries.

The only stat that counts is W's versus L's.

Go read more John Clayton and KC Joyner (lost football disciples of Bill James)

All BB cares about is SITUATIONAL football. Not stats.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Whats scares me.

Never. I'd rather have Chad have me eat crow by performing on the field.

BB has always shown great respect for vets before he lets them go!

You said he's looked horrible. By all accounts, that couldn't be further from the truth. You were wrong. The honorable thing to do would be for you to admit it.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: Whats scares me.

Let me point out some "dumbness" for you. No amount of experience is going to turn Hawkins or Sanders into Rodney Harrison. Equally, Hobbs is not close to being a #1 corner. I question his consistency as a solid #2.

Scott has looked horrible. Gay could be an asset again after a tough injury. I won't be surprised if Tebucky is cut the next couple of weeks.

First, I didn't say our secondary would kick ass. But, barring injury, will be better than last year.

Hawkins or Sanders turn into Rodney ? No they won't. But Rodney was out after 2 1/2 games last year and Hawkins/Sanders will be no worse then last year, likely better. And Rodney could be back.

Scott has looked horrible . . . first, which Scott ? Second, that's irrelevant to improvment from last year because they both missed the year.

Gay, Tebucky ? Same thing.

There is no reasonable argurment that the secondary is going to be worse this year than last. And if there is, you certainly haven't made it.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Whats scares me.

SAFETIES
As of now we have a street free agent (someone no one wanted) and a STer turned nickel back as our starting safeties, with a couple of special teamers as backups.

In what dream world do we believe any of these would be starters for a playoff team elsewhere?

Huh? Just because they've been experimenting with Wilson at CB does not mean that he won't be lining up at FS this year. I think it's early preparation for any contingencies involving more injuries at CB. I, for one, am perfectly comfortable with Wilson and Sanders/Hawkins at S until Harrison returns.

CORNERS
We can say that Hobbs and Samuel are top corners, certainly number #2's elsewhere, along with super vets Chad Scott and Warfield. I think it is the kool-aid talking.

I don't think they're TOP corners; I think they're better than people typically give them credit for. Definately not elite in terms of starters but a very good group from top to bottom.

Wilson is simply a question mark at corner. He has no experience covering #1 receiver in the NFL, and being being double-teamed. I would much rather we keep him as safety, and have a solid set of safeties by midseason.

Actually, odds are that we'd have a solid set of safeties from day one.

Perhaps we start the year with a secondary as good as won the three Super Bowls. That does not take into account injuries.

Which is why this secondary is deeper than any previous units.

It also doesn't make the secondary even average in the league.

Speculation.

 

[Slagathor]

Re: Whats scares me.

SAFETIES
As of now we have a street free agent (someone no one wanted) and a STer turned nickel back as our starting safeties, with a couple of special teamers as backups.

In what dream world do we believe any of these would be starters for a playoff team elsewhere?

CORNERS
We can say that Hobbs and Samuel are top corners, certainly number #2's elsewhere, along with super vets Chad Scott and Warfield. I think it is the kool-aid talking.

Wilson is simply a question mark at corner. He has no experience covering #1 receiver in the NFL, and being being double-teamed. I would much rather we keep him as safety, and have a solid set of safeties by midseason.
=============================================

Perhaps we start the year with a secondary as good as won the three Super Bowls. That does not take into account injuries. It also doesn't make the secondary even average in the league. We won with below average secondaries, with aweful depth. That was great. That we won doesn't make then better, any more than getting to the SB with turnstile guards.

Kudos to you for laying out my point better than I could.

The fact that we've had success with sub-par secondaries is admirable and great to look back on. But I for one can't look at our current personnel and watch what good passing teams did against them last year and say as someone said in an earlier post, "oh, they'll be in the top third in pass defense".

That's just crazy talk.

 

[patsox23]

Re: Whats scares me.

By the way, I'll take that wager. Pats have to be better than 24th in pass D? Um...okay.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Whats scares me.

This just after the thread that veered into the Donnie Edwards "Yards Per Tackle" worthless stat.

Is it "worthless"? I've yet to see you prove it as such.

 

[JackBauer]

Re: Whats scares me.

Kudos to you for laying out my point better than I could.

The fact that we've had success with sub-par secondaries is admirable and great to look back on. But I for one can't look at our current personnel and watch what good passing teams did against them last year and say as someone said in an earlier post, "oh, they'll be in the top third in pass defense".

That's just crazy talk.

Almost as crazy as saying they'll be in the bottom third.

 

[Slagathor]

Re: Whats scares me.

By the way, I'll take that wager. Pats have to be better than 24th in pass D? Um...okay.

Wager....Accepted.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

If their this bad after the 4th preseason game then press the panic button. But they have only been at practice for a little over a week now. There is plenty of time to improve.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Whats scares me.

SAFETIES
As of now we have a street free agent (someone no one wanted) and a STer turned nickel back as our starting safeties, with a couple of special teamers as backups.

In what dream world do we believe any of these would be starters for a playoff team elsewhere?

CORNERS
We can say that Hobbs and Samuel are top corners, certainly number #2's elsewhere, along with super vets Chad Scott and Warfield. I think it is the kool-aid talking.

Wilson is simply a question mark at corner. He has no experience covering #1 receiver in the NFL, and being being double-teamed. I would much rather we keep him as safety, and have a solid set of safeties by midseason.
=============================================

Perhaps we start the year with a secondary as good as won the three Super Bowls. That does not take into account injuries. It also doesn't make the secondary even average in the league. We won with below average secondaries, with aweful depth. That was great. That we won doesn't make then better, any more than getting to the SB with turnstile guards.
===============================================

As for Chad Scott, I think he is still an unknown quantity. However, I had him penciled in as a starter last year, and now with Law not coming, he again has a good chance to compete for that position.

Did Randall Gay get cut or something?

Safeties: Wilson and Sanders (he was a freaking Rookie last year!) or Hawkins (he came in halfway through the year - in 2006 he gets to actually learn the D!) with Tebucky and Guss (better than Stone and Poteat):

Anyway you slice it, this is way better than anything we threw out there after Game 3 last year.

Corners: Samuel, Hobbs and Gay (rotation) backed by C. Scott, Warfield and the ABILITY of Wilson (good emergency training for the season, BB!) to switch over once Rodney is back. Don't forget, this is Wilson's NATURAL position. As I mentioned before, there's 3 or 4 solid #2's in that group - -this is better depth than anything we've had since BB came to NE.

Once again, much better than last year (at ANY time of last year)

Speaking of which, once Rodney is back, Wilson is more available at CB if need be.