What scares me.

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Slagathor, Aug 7, 2006.

  1. Slagathor

    Slagathor 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #22 Jersey

    I gotta tell you, alot of folks on here are thinking we're too thin at LB and WR, but that ain't the problem.

    I predict we'll be well into the bottom third in passing defense.

    Our DB's are the worst I've seen in the Kraft era. Yes, even worse than the Chris Canty days.

    Who's our #1 DB. Wilson? Great FS, but unproven one on one againts top-flight NFL receivers.

    Hobbs? I've see some great athleticism but more hot air than anything else. Even from what I've heard from camp and and looking at 2005-2006, he get's burnt deep alot. Bravado only gets you so far.

    Gay? Let's see if he's healthy. At best he's an average #2 CB.

    Asante looks very good at times, but physically and athletically, he also no more than a good nickelback.

    Rodney. His successful rehab will be the difference between us making and not making the playoffs this year. Easier schedule or not. The competitions gotten alot tougher. We haven't.

    Add to this, a problem with stature. Any "good" receiver over 6'1" will have career days against us.

    The secondary is a HUGE hole, outweighing any other roster issues we have by a longshot.

    Will a little more QB pressure up front solve the problem? Not enough in my opinion.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  2. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.

    I suspect you don't remember the great days of Earthwind and Troy Brown ...
  3. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    #75 Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.

    This is kind of a Redskins vs. Patriots style argument.

    While our Secondary doesn't have the superstar, shut-down corner this year (no argument there) it does have the best depth in TC we've seen since BB came to NE.

    So, yes, we don't really have a #1 CB, but we do have 4-5 that could be solid #2's on other teams.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  4. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Re: Whats scares me.

    Push the panic button!!!! please....
  5. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

    Re: Whats scares me.

    There was a time when I seriously thought that Earthwind Moreland was going to be a starter one day.

    I admit that I've seen through Rose colored glasses at points. (You heard me AJ!)

    But as for the originating posts concerns, I'm not sure they are founded. With how bad last season was I think that the younger players will have learned and grown from it.

    I think that last season was about as bad as it gets. The players that stepped in for guys like Rodney and Starks got the reps, got experience, and gained knowledge.

    I think with Hawkins back there, Wilson hopefully coming out of his funk, Harrison hopefully back, re-upping Tebucky (who at least has great size and experience in the system) and guys like Sanders and Gus Scott hopefully staying healthy that we could and should have a more stable and cohesive unit this season. Here's to hoping.
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    #75 Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.


    We should have a contest to award one poster the screen name of The Paranoid Patriot.

    Maybe there just too many who fall into that class.
  7. Clonamery

    Clonamery PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Re: Whats scares me.

    THAT'S what scares me...............
  8. Slagathor

    Slagathor 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #22 Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.

    Using the history of injuries we've had in the seconday over the past couple of years, why don't you help me press it.

    If you lose a guy like Eugene Wislon and/or lets say Asante, I promise you the panic button is gonna get worn out.

    In my opinion, getting passed Indy, Cincy and even a team like Miami will be very difficult. Say what you want about Culpepper. Give him an opportunity to throw to Chambers as he did to Moss, it could be scary.
  9. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Pro Bowl Player

    Re: Whats scares me.

    Not to say that DB depth isn't always a concern, but keep in mind, given a "bend but don't break" secondary scheme we could, and often have had, defenses that give up a ton of yard but are still very good defense - allowing yards but limiting points scored.

    Height I feel is an overhyped issue for CBs - the average height of WRs drafted is about 6 foot 1 and the average height of CBs is around 5 foot 10.

    There's plenty of guys out there who can make up 3-4 inches in vertical leap compared to another guy - and the fact is, if CBs were taller they'd probably have been WRs themselves - but they fid ways to make up for the slight height difference.

    In other words, most CBs are shorter than the WRs they cover - they always have been.

    I found it hilarious when so many people gave the Patriots the "advice" of bringing in taller CBs - even CBs that are taller than receivers... were only it was so easy to snap one's fingers and make that happen. But that's just not reality in the NFL - WRs are taller than CBs - just accept it and move on.
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

    We won a Super Bowl with worse. 'Nuff said.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 10, 2005
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.

    Honestly, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. We have the same group as last year but many of them are now more experienced. Hobbs. Hawkins. Sanders. There is no reason they'll be worse than last year. Plus there's some added depth with Tebucky and some guys returning (or hopefully returning) from being hurt including Sanders, Gay and both Scotts. Then there's Samuel playing in his contract year which usually results in a big year.
  12. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #15 Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.

    If Harrison returns to form, we will be at the top third in pass defense. I thought Hobbs was pretty good as a rookie. From all accounts he is extremely smart and motivated. I say he improves this year and have no problem with him starting. Wilson's natural position is corner, and has started on a Superbowl level team since he was a rookie. Harrison is still the key, if he's healthy, we will see a better performance from Asante. I'm not worried about our defensive backfield.
  13. Slagathor

    Slagathor 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #22 Jersey

    Aside from from our first SB victory. The constant in our other two victories has been Rodney Harrison.

    If he can't play close to his previous levels. We'll be in trouble. Leadership in the secondary is important. We lacked it most of last year and if Rodney can't lead by example this season, it's gonna be a tough season.

    No panic here. Just pointing out a liability that should be obvious to anyone not blinded by chronic homerism, which I admit I've been guilty of myself.
  14. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Mayer? Earthwind? Troy? Cherry? Freeman? Starks? Reid?

    (Can't bust on my boy Hank)

    Those days are long gone, my friend.

    I have absolutely no idea where you're coming from with the "worst DBs of the Kraft era" thought. That's about as outrageous of a thought I've heard.

    In years past where the Pats have been scrambling for DBs anywhere they can find, it's safe to say they've finally settled in with about a group of 15 that are capable NFL players (sorry, Earthwind). Since only 11-12 or so will make the squad, not only is healthy competition brewing, but instead of the situation at WR with "bad" players fighting for one or two roster spots, it's "good" players fighting for that same number of spots.

    The best part of it is versatility. All of the safeties aren't limited to free/strong, and guys like Wilson, Hawkins, Chad Scott, Warfield, Andrews, and others can switch between corner and safety as needed.

    Better yet, it's tough to get a better mix of youth and veteran leadership. BB has caled Chad Scott a "Troy Brown type player" who is out there to win. Warfield, C. Scott, Rodney, and Hawkins bring the veteran presence (Rodney being the prime example). Add in great young talent like Samuel, Hobbs, Gay, Sanders, Guss Scott, and Andrews, and the Pats have PLENTY to work with. ANY of the above (with the exception of Andrews or even Guss) could earn a starting spot, not because there's a lack of starting-quality players, but because there's a surplus.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2006
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

    What about 2004? Pretty much the same secondary, but with better depth.

    I'm pretty optimistic about Sanders, myself.
  16. Slagathor

    Slagathor 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #22 Jersey

    Re: Whats scares me.

    Let me point out some "dumbness" for you. No amount of experience is going to turn Hawkins or Sanders into Rodney Harrison. Equally, Hobbs is not close to being a #1 corner. I question his consistency as a solid #2.

    Scott has looked horrible. Gay could be an asset again after a tough injury. I won't be surprised if Tebucky is cut the next couple of weeks.

    Stop throwing out these names like they're answers, when there are more questions attached to them than anything else.
  17. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Re: Whats scares me.

    For what?!? Why?!?
  18. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey


    "I came in just to stay familiar and know what's going on and how things were going," said the 6-foot-1 veteran cornerback....

    Belichick also compared Scott to veteran Troy Brown because of his "team-first" attitude"
  19. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

    Re: Whats scares me.

    What team doesn't have questions at this point? If anything, they're positive questions! WHICH capable players out of Hobbs/Samuel/Gay/Warfield will emerge as starters? WHICH player at the safety position, if any, will be cut because of the SURPLUS in talent at that position?
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

    Re: Whats scares me.

    Probably not this season, but the safeties seemed to play well last season once Hawkins settled in.

    How could you POSSIBLY know this already?

    That's funny. I've heard the exact opposite.

    After Mitchell was just put on IR?

    Then stop hyperventilating. Like I said, we won in 2004 with a very similar secondary, except this years' version is deeper.

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