What position on Defense do we need that STUD?

[Ochmed Jones]

ESPN - "Mount Cody" sits at the summit of Bama's defense - College Football

Cody is a great story and probably a great player in the making, but what do you do with Big Vince?

I would say that passrusher would be the Pats #1 draft need, followed closely by a SS and OG.

There is no doubt in my mind that our #1 priority is a pass rushing demon OLB off the edge. But I have scoured the college landscape and I do not see anybody that even remotely fits the bill. There just is not one this year. And I do not see BB biting on any veteram FA pass rushers.

I also do not see anybody at the college level that can start next year in our secondary and be the playmaker we need. Asomugha of Oakland is the perfect fit and BB has the cash to get him, provided a deal can be worked with Oakland.

Bottom line in my mind is secure Asomugha and then draft Cody, if he is still on the board.

So in my mind, why not try to secure Asomugha and then draft Cody to sit for a year and learn while spending much needed time in Woicik's S&C Program. We let Vince walk at the end of his rookie contract.
Unless he gets injured. Cody is going to be a much better NT than Vince (and that is saying a lot because Vince is a pro bowler) and Cody will never "play on skates" as Vince tends to do.

 

[everlong]

I would sleep better at night if BB would cut Wilhite.

Other than the Colts game where he got burnt a couple of times, picked on one, your opinion is that low on Wilhite?

He seems to do well on special teams and has been decent in the nickle from what I've seen. I don't think he'll ever be a starting CB but I think he could evolve into a guy who can match up well on the slot receiver.

 

[BradyManny]

I'm going to do a complete 180 from my stance last year and say the cornerback is the area of most necessary upgrade - and that the pass rush will be improved by the DBs, not the DBs improved by the pass rush. Last year, I was arguing for Groves saying that a 3rd down edge beast would mitigate the loss of Asante. It's possible that the pass rushing personnel might not be the issue, its hard to imagine any youngster supplanting Vrabel or AD.

Either way, given Ochmed Jones' assertion about the OLB candidates - and I can't speak for anyone, but my opinions on draft prospects are probably more influenced by opinions on this board then the professional scouting reports, commentators, write-ups etc. - then it seems we won't have a chance at a pass rushing demon. Thus, we need to find a stud CB.

Unfortunately, I have very little optimism that the Raiders will let Asomugha hit the open market. Upon my cursory glance at CB prospects and my own limited knowledge of NCAA football right now, I am not enamored with what we can get in the draft in that regard. Hopefully I'm just living in a cave and there are some CB prospects that could come in and contribute immediately.

In short, it seems we're a little bit battling the nature of this draft and its strengths and weaknesses. Really upgrading the positions of need might need to wait a season - or bank on two 2nd year guys coming off IR, having a good offseason, and making contributions (Wheatley and Crable, with a larger emphasis on Wheatley).

 

[tanked_as_usual]

not cornerback so much as a pro-bowl caliber SS.........you can get away with knuckleheads at CB in the pats zone scheme as long as you have the hardware inside .......

 

[Seneschal2]

There is no doubt in my mind that our #1 priority is a pass rushing demon OLB off the edge. But I have scoured the college landscape and I do not see anybody that even remotely fits the bill.

IF there is one prospect, he (and we'll) be in the same boat again next season -- the developmental process.

I also do not see anybody at the college level that can start next year in our secondary and be the playmaker we need. Asomugha of Oakland is the perfect fit and BB has the cash to get him, provided a deal can be worked with Oakland.

Short of that top tier signing, the draft remains the obvious way. There are a few CB prospects who fit very well. But the only way a worthy prospect will be able to compete for that LCB spot will be to arrive in TC on time, and stay healthy throughout pre-season and the regular season while competing with Wheatley. I have high hopes for Tyrone, but like BB, prefer not to put all my eggs in one basket (Wheatley). Comp is the way to go between two solid prospects. We both like Burnett as one who seems to fit. But if there's an opportunity to select a CB somewhat higher than Burnett (think early R2) -- I'd be open.

Bottom line in my mind is secure Asomugha and then draft Cody, if he is still on the board.

How far Cody slides is the key. And for those who think we don't need a NT, Cody would be a value pick. Call him an unapparent need.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

not cornerback so much as a pro-bowl caliber SS.........you can get away with knuckleheads at CB in the pats zone scheme as long as you have the hardware inside .......

I think BB's schemes work best when he has 1 decent CB that can cover without help. This allows him to be able to provide help to the other CB as well as disguise lots of other coverages.
That is why Asomugha would be such a huge addition to the team.

I see two SS that are worthy of being picked in the 3rd round at the earliest (provided they both run decent 40's). Chancellor of Va. Tech, a very big kid and Harris of Oklahoma. Neither looks like legitimate "hardware" for the inside of a BB defense. I'd rather resign Sanders, even though he does not make many big plays.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Other than the Colts game where he got burnt a couple of times, picked on one, your opinion is that low on Wilhite?

He seems to do well on special teams and has been decent in the nickle from what I've seen. I don't think he'll ever be a starting CB but I think he could evolve into a guy who can match up well on the slot receiver.

I think he is terrible on ST. It seems like every time they show a replay of the other team's return, Wilhite is either on the ground or diving and missing the KR.

I know BB's schemes are extremely mental, but Wilhite looks confused, horrible and soft out there. Maybe the light will come on in the off season and he will develop some toughness after an offseason working with Woicik. But right now, I'd rather see him on the PS where he has no chance to sniff the field during a game.

 

[carolinatony]

Why do ppl keep saying that?


This is one of Seymours best years of his entire career.

I have brothers who are all Pats fans back in NE and they all agree Seymore is NOT that Stud player. He may be good but imo we can do better. In the games I have seen; he not dominating the flow of the game.
Sorry

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Why do ppl keep saying that?


This is one of Seymours best years of his entire career.

I have brothers who are all Pats fans back in NE and they all agree Seymore is NOT that Stud player. He may be good but imo we can do better. In the games I have seen; he not dominating the flow of the game.
Sorry

ppl, and sometimes even people, say a lot of things, my DVR says something else again and Seymour whether observed at normal speed or in slow motion is DOMINATING - but heh, it just could be because my DVR is biased for NE.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you are going to play the 3-4, then you absolutely MUST have a NT. Regardless of what variations you play the 3-4 from, the monster NT that can control the LOS, comman double teams and is a rock in the running game. It is paramount regardless of which 3-4 defense you run.

In the BB version of the 3-4 the next most important position are the OLB's. They have to be able to generate a pass rush and play the run and have the speed to cover.
I think that in years past, because Seymour was so dominant at one DE position and Warren or Green could generate a pass rush at the other DE position, the Pats could get away with having second tier OLB's that were more jack of all trades and master of none type players.

The third most important defensive position in the BB 3-4 defense is the field general at SS, that can command respect and communicate. BB prefers veterans in this spot.

I want to throw a name out there of someone, who as a late round draft pick, might be worth a shot depernding on what Saban says about him, Bobby Greenwood, DE alabama. A day two draft pick kind of guy that no one is talking about, but has 2 years experience in the 3-4 and has made a ton of plays this year, mostly because of the presence of Mount Cody on the inside.

Ochmed - From what I can find, Greenwood comes in at 6'5 and 278 lbs. That's small for a Pats 3-4 DE, though its only 10lbs lighter than Jarvis Green. Do you think Greenwood is more like Green? Or is he more like a McGinest/AD Type OLB?

 

[Real World]

The two most glaring needs are a CB, and a pass rusher. Since we've invested picks in the secondary of late, and have an excellent DL, I think a pass rushing OLB is #1 on the needs list. A pass rush can make a lot of average DB's better. The Patriots don't really have a pass rusher of any merrit. Vrabel is 33, and it's showing.

Todd McShay has these as his top 5 pass rushers.

1. Everette Brown*, DE/OLB, Florida State

2. Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB, Texas

3. George Selvie*, DE/OLB, South Florida

4. Jerry Hughes*, DE/OLB, TCU

5. Greg Hardy*, DE, Ole Miss

10 others worth mentioning• Clint Sintim, OLB, Virginia
• Michael Johnson, DE/OLB, Georgia Tech
• Jermaine Cunningham*, DE, Florida
• Auston English*, DE/OLB, Oklahoma
• Brandon Graham, OLB, Michigan
• Brandon Williams*, DE, Texas Tech
• Sergio Kindle*, OLB, Texas
• Antonio Coleman*, DE/OLB, Auburn
• Cody Brown, DE/OLB, Connecticut
• Connor Barwin, DE/OLB, Cincinnati

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&id=3700830

 

[jmt57]

From what I've read Orakpu is considered a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick. If the Pats can pick him up in the 2nd, then they can go for eithe Selvie or one of several CB: UConn's Darius Butler, Kevin Barnes (Maryland), Mike Mickens (Cincinnati), or Lydell Sargeant (Penn State). With the Chargers' pick in between, they could go for an OT like Tulane's Troy Kropog or UConn's Will Beatty. At some point Matt Light needs to move to RT and it's still vitally important to protect Brady's blindside.

 

[Kontradiction]

We need to take care of the pass rush first and foremost seeing as our complete lack of one made Seneca Wallace look like Joe Montana. Bring in a pass rush specialist who is also good at coverage and can make the big hit for the LB corps (not sure if Crable will be that guy yet) and then see what we have with the new secondary we drafted this year. We can also use a head hunter at the safety position alongside Meriweather.