What is the system?

[Brady6]

i think that no one offers Edelman more than that 4.5 mill, and maybe not more than 3/10.



Edelman did a great job this year. He does a great job running after the catch. He played in an offense where, aside from him:

The #1 target was injured for half the season

The #2 target, who relies on quick breaks in and out of cuts was nursing a groin injury all season.

The #3 target was incarcerated.

The #3 target to replace him missed half the season with a broken wrist.

The outside receivers were all injured for numerous games, the best of which was hampered through camp and slow to develop a chemistry with Brady.



The "Edelman-centrc" Patriot offense was the least productive Patriot offense in years. That is not Edelmans fault, it is an indication that his production was out of necessity not design.



Scoring was down a TD a game from 13 and 5-7 points from each of the last 3 seasons. Scoring in games without Gronk was down more than 10 points a game from last year.



Teams don't pay big money to a player who steps in and gets catches while the offense takes a step backward.



As far as the 'system' I'm not sure why the term system player got into this, but the point at hand is that the system the Patriots run puts heavy emphasis on short, quick passes, ad running quick players through traffic to get them open. That philosophy played into edlemans production, and in a different system his skillset would not be as valued.

It isn't really a philosophy it's having a good QB who can throw into congested areas without turning the ball over.

Brady
Manning
Rodgers
Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Ryan
Wilson

They all work well with slot WRs. QBs who are erratic do not.

As far as the money on Edelman, we spent $5M against the cap this season for Lloyd and Johnson who weren't even on the team so if we keep both Edelman and Amendola to fill the most targeted position on our offense I don't really see an issue.

 

[Brady6]

PP, here's another Chris Brown piece. You can probably consider it a blueprint for what they want/need from their slot WR in general.



http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/...s-the-patriots-go/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Let's say it is the system that makes the player for a minute. Even if that is the case how can the Patriots let Brady's top target walk 2 years in a row? Especially when Brady has been taking team friendly deals to allow the team to build a contender around him. Is this team better without Edelman on it? Whether you believe Welker's production was accounted for or not you can't believe the team was better without Welker this year. I would hope that we learn from history and not repeat it.

Like I said in my last post we had $5M+ hit our cap in 2013 for receivers who didn't even play in the NFL last year. I can't really see why all of a sudden we are going to be pinching pennies.

 

[PP2]

I'm not a football expert, but I think what i said was basically true.

I hope you find some technical answers, but avoid know it alls. I'll try to avoid responding to your questions in the future.

As far as Ocho goes, I posted a video of Wiggins showing how, by not cutting back sharply as he was supposed to, Ocho was open, but didn't screen off the defender, so The pass which was already in the air was picked off.

I doubt he suffers from anxiety, as you put it.

I also posted an article about their option system.

I think it's clear that I am not referring to you as one of those know-it-all posters, as you did post a link to an article that brought some great knowledge to this discussion, which is hardly the behavior of such a poster.

My theory of option anxiety as it has to do with Ocho is that while he was in Cincy, the type of routes he ran did not require him to read and react, but use his sheer athleticism and straight up speed to beat his man. In fact, Carson had to adapt to that. This probably represents a failure more on the parts of Pats scouting than with either Ocho or the system, or even BB in some regard.

When Ocho came here, asking him to not only run routes but read and react in addition to interpreting concepts according to his alignment, and not his position was IMO asking too much of him, as far as his ability to process real-time information. That is, he may have just one of those people who couldn't "walk and chew a gum at the same time" as the saying goes.

What this seems to suggest is that processing real-time information is a talent, and may explain why players such as Welker, Edelman fare well here, where others just don't.

 

[RayClay]

I think it's clear that I am not referring to you as one of those know-it-all posters, as you did post a link to an article that brought some great knowledge to this discussion, which is hardly the behavior of such a poster.

My theory of option anxiety as it has to do with Ocho is that while he was in Cincy, the type of routes he ran did not require him to read and react, but use his sheer athleticism and straight up speed to beat his man. In fact, Carson had to adapt to that. This probably represents a failure more on the parts of Pats scouting than with either Ocho or the system, or even BB in some regard.

When Ocho came here, asking him to not only run routes but read and react in addition to interpreting concepts according to his alignment, and not his position was IMO asking too much of him, as far as his ability to process real-time information. That is, he may have just one of those people who couldn't "walk and chew a gum at the same time" as the saying goes.

What this seems to suggest is that processing real-time information is a talent, and may explain why players such as Welker, Edelman fare well here, where others just don't.

Well, I don't know muchnor did I intend my simple explanation to be comprehensive, but It requires studying defenses and running the routes precisely as they should be run. I think it requires work and discipline, but some catch on quick like Branch, i guess.

By the way, I agree Ocho was a mistake in scouting, they knew plenty about him.

This is basically how i understand it, so I'll just repost.

Inside the playbook: On most plays, New England Patriots receivers have options | masslive.com

 

[PP2]

Well, I don't know muchnor did I intend my simple explanation to be comprehensive, but It requires studying defenses and running the routes precisely as they should be run. I think it requires work and discipline, but some catch on quick like Branch, i guess.

By the way, I agree Ocho was a mistake in scouting, they knew plenty about him.

This is basically how i understand it, so I'll just repost.

Inside the playbook: On most plays, New England Patriots receivers have options | masslive.com

That is a great article you posted.

A very telling statement made by Thompkins:

"It's different seeing things from a quarterback's eyes than a wide receiver's eyes,"

FYI: Ocho was said to have worked hard while he was here. I did have the chance to see him in TC and in every session I attended, he stayed afterwards to work out with Brady. It's a shame it just didn't translate onto the field.

 

[supafly]

As far as the money on Edelman, we spent $5M against the cap this season for Lloyd and Johnson who weren't even on the team so if we keep both Edelman and Amendola to fill the most targeted position on our offense I don't really see an issue.

Like I said in my last post we had $5M+ hit our cap in 2013 for receivers who didn't even play in the NFL last year. I can't really see why all of a sudden we are going to be pinching pennies.

Not meaning to bust balls, but basically you're advocating the use of repeating the same mistake twice.

Just because Belichick made some poor personnel decisions and was forced to pay dead cap money after the fact that both Ochocinco and Llyod were gone shouldn't mean that we're suddenly "okay" with accepting that kind of mindset.

Had it not been for the prisoner and his dead cap hit for 2014, we'd be practically clear this year in that regard, and that could help to build other important areas of the team and/or even carry it over in a worst case scenario.

It would be very difficult to pay Julian Edelman 5m+ while they're paying Amendola AND being forced to pay Hernandez's hit as well.

 

[supafly]

Amendola’s performance against the Bills was one game, if you have no concern over losing Edelman because of that one game I think that you are setting yourself up for a tremendous disappointment. Amendola had a good game just as he did against the Dolphins in week 15 and against the Redskins and 49ers last season. He is inconsistent, so if you want to put all your eggs in that basket I have a feeling you will be regretting it with the exception of 2-4 games a year.

It's not that I don't have concern over losing Edelman as much as I don't expect the NE Patriots to overpay. If he's willing to take some type of reasonable deal to stay here, then all the better. I'd be very happy with keeping Julian Edelman.

As far as whether or not Amendola could produce with the same number of targets as Julian Edelman saw this year (174), I think that's silly to think otherwise. As many have said, the key there is injury--just the same as it continues to be with Edelman as well. Now that he had a full season of health, he's suddenly Ronnie Lott playing the position of wide receiver to some people. The truth is that we can't depend on either one of them, which is why it was nice to have them both last year.

That said I have no issue with retaining Amendola, I just disagree with your assertion that we would be fine without Edelman, you must be forgetting that Edelman was the player with 2 touchdowns in the week 1 game against the Bills that has you feeling so strongly about Amendola.

We all saw that Amendola was definitely on the same page with Brady in the pre-season before his groin injury, and in week 1 when he gutted through it due to no other option. That was obviously a very different Danny Amendola than the one that continued to play the rest of the season.

I'm guessing that if they'd choose to give Amendola (or whomever) 174 targets next season, we should see much of the same in the position.

I'm not sure what you saw that proves that Amendola couldn't put up more than 54 catches in 12 games in his second year with better options around him. That production alone would equate to 72 catches alone had he not missed 4 games, and that's in what everyone deems as a "horrible" season.

 

[Brady6]

Not meaning to bust balls, but basically you're advocating the use of repeating the same mistake twice.

Just because Belichick made some poor personnel decisions and was forced to pay dead cap money after the fact that both Ochocinco and Llyod were gone shouldn't mean that we're suddenly "okay" with accepting that kind of mindset.

Had it not been for the prisoner and his dead cap hit for 2014, we'd be practically clear this year in that regard, and that could help to build other important areas of the team and/or even carry it over in a worst case scenario.

It would be very difficult to pay Julian Edelman 5m+ while they're paying Amendola AND being forced to pay Hernandez's hit as well.

I do not think it is a mistake. You can use both Edelman and Amendola on the same offense and given the injury histories of both of them coupled with the significance of that position in our offense I see no issue with having to capable players.

As I have said, how do you let Brady’s #1 target walk in UFA 2 seasons in a row? That indicates to me that we do not value the players that Brady trusts and that is a problem.

 

[Brady6]

It's not that I don't have concern over losing Edelman as much as I don't expect the NE Patriots to overpay. If he's willing to take some type of reasonable deal to stay here, then all the better. I'd be very happy with keeping Julian Edelman.

As far as whether or not Amendola could produce with the same number of targets as Julian Edelman saw this year (174), I think that's silly to think otherwise. As many have said, the key there is injury--just the same as it continues to be with Edelman as well. Now that he had a full season of health, he's suddenly Ronnie Lott playing the position of wide receiver to some people. The truth is that we can't depend on either one of them, which is why it was nice to have them both last year.

Edelman saw 151 targets during the regular season. Welker saw 174 last season.

We all saw that Amendola was definitely on the same page with Brady in the pre-season before his groin injury, and in week 1 when he gutted through it due to no other option. That was obviously a very different Danny Amendola than the one that continued to play the rest of the season.

I'm guessing that if they'd choose to give Amendola (or whomever) 174 targets next season, we should see much of the same in the position.

I'm not sure what you saw that proves that Amendola couldn't put up more than 54 catches in 12 games in his second year with better options around him. That production alone would equate to 72 catches alone had he not missed 4 games, and that's in what everyone deems as a "horrible" season.

I think that in the preseason we saw that Amendola is inconsistent but capable of exploiting a matchup advantage as well as any player in the NFL. He had 1 catch for 6 yards in week 1 and then had a good showing against Tampa, Zach Sudfield looked like a Rob Gronkowski in that game too.

I never said Amendola couldn’t put up more than 54 catches and 633 yards. I just don’t think it is much more, I do not believe his 7th NFL season is going to be his most productive season by far, the average NFL career is 6.86 years.

 

[Ring 6]

You are dead wrong on that.

One reason the Pats excel so well in the hurry up, is because the philosophy of the EP offense uses football concepts rather than the specific routes called for by the West Coast offense or the tree philosophy of the Coryell. When West Coast offense goes into hurry up, they more often than not, go to a very simplified playbook.

This allows Brady to use just one or two words (think "alabama") to alert his receivers as to what his intentions are, and why he gets the snap off so fast when he is in hurry up, because while "who does what" changes, the underlying tactics do not, and so Brady doesn't have to change his reads even though the looks and formations are different.

So while BB has taken the EP offense and turned it into a system, the underlying philosophy is still very much intact.

As I said, HAS ROOTS. The way the Patriot offense is run is nothing like those offenses.

 

[supafly]

Edelman saw 151 targets during the regular season. Welker saw 174 last season.

I think I was including the 2 postseason games for Edelman, but it's also possible that I was thinking of Welker's 174 from last year as well. I honestly don't know. Either way, thanks for the correction, and from now on I will just use the regular season totals for the future.

Either way, you keep feeling that I (and others who point it out) are meaning to devalue Edelman. That isn't true. I believe he's well worth 3--3.5--4 million dollars a year. The kicker is that many feel that he'll be demanding more on the open market, which means that you need to step back and look the fact that our offense wasn't as good, while Brady was practically forced to throw him those targets this year.

Therefore, it's hard to compare any kind of totals with Welker in my opinion. Welker wasn't having the ball jammed down his throat due to a lack of other options, at least not nearly as much as Edelman was this year anyway. It seems that you're having difficulties with anyone who attempts to put Edelman's production into a proper context.

I would be extremely happy to see Edelman stay here, and I hope they can get it done, but there have been many times where we've been discussing the prospect of him leaving for bigger money, and you can't blame Belichick for that if he chooses not to overpay.

I never said Amendola couldn’t put up more than 54 catches and 633 yards. I just don’t think it is much more, I do not believe his 7th NFL season is going to be his most productive season by far, the average NFL career is 6.86 years.

So.....Amendola is going to fail because he's going into his 7th year and the average NFL career is only 6.86 years?

But Edelman (who's going into his 6th year) is still good, because he falls under the bar of "6.86" years?

Boy, that one year difference really makes a hell of a difference.

 

[InRodWeRust]

Too many good links . . . must read later.

 

[Ring 6]

I think I was including the 2 postseason games for Edelman, but it's also possible that I was thinking of Welker's 174 from last year as well. I honestly don't know. Either way, thanks for the correction, and from now on I will just use the regular season totals for the future.

Either way, you keep feeling that I (and others who point it out) are meaning to devalue Edelman. That isn't true. I believe he's well worth 3--3.5--4 million dollars a year. The kicker is that many feel that he'll be demanding more on the open market, which means that you need to step back and look the fact that our offense wasn't as good, while Brady was practically forced to throw him those targets this year.

Therefore, it's hard to compare any kind of totals with Welker in my opinion. Welker wasn't having the ball jammed down his throat due to a lack of other options, at least not nearly as much as Edelman was this year anyway. It seems that you're having difficulties with anyone who attempts to put Edelman's production into a proper context.

I would be extremely happy to see Edelman stay here, and I hope they can get it done, but there have been many times where we've been discussing the prospect of him leaving for bigger money, and you can't blame Belichick for that if he chooses not to overpay.




So.....Amendola is going to fail because he's going into his 7th year and the average NFL career is only 6.86 years?

But Edelman (who's going into his 6th year) is still good, because he falls under the bar of "6.86" years?

Boy, that one year difference really makes a hell of a difference.

Bingo says hi.

 

[Brady6]

I think I was including the 2 postseason games for Edelman, but it's also possible that I was thinking of Welker's 174 from last year as well. I honestly don't know. Either way, thanks for the correction, and from now on I will just use the regular season totals for the future.

He was targeted 175 times resulting in 121 catches, 1229 yards, 63 first downs, and 7 touchdowns when you combine regular and post seasons.

Either way, you keep feeling that I (and others who point it out) are meaning to devalue Edelman. That isn't true. I believe he's well worth 3--3.5--4 million dollars a year. The kicker is that many feel that he'll be demanding more on the open market, which means that you need to step back and look the fact that our offense wasn't as good, while Brady was practically forced to throw him those targets this year.

I agree with you evaluation of Edelman’s worth personally but the reality is that Amendola, Welker, Harvin and Cruz were all paid significantly more last offseason and Edelman was more productive than any of them this season and if you want to match up his season compared to their 2012-13 season than he was more productive than all except Welker in the season leading into free agency.

1. Based on discussions we have had you do not seem to have an issue with the contract given to Danny Amendola which would average out at $5.7M annually. Why do you feel Edelman worth so much less? Bradford and others did not have many weapons. That just does not make sense to me, if you want to set a value on the slot position itself I can understand your evaluation but if you feel that one is worth that amount I cannot understand why the other is not.
2. Why do you believe that Brady was forced to throw Edelman the football, we have targeted the slot WR that percent of the time every year since 2007 started. This season was the second most attempts Brady had in a season in his career yet Edelman was targeted a lower percent of them than Welker ever was in his tenure here. In addition, Edelman had 4 games with 100+ yards this season 2 of them occurred in games that Gronkowski, Vereen, and Amendola played in.

Therefore, it's hard to compare any kind of totals with Welker in my opinion. Welker wasn't having the ball jammed down his throat due to a lack of other options, at least not nearly as much as Edelman was this year anyway. It seems that you're having difficulties with anyone who attempts to put Edelman's production into a proper context.

I did not see Brady jamming the ball down his throat, Brady had a 60.2% completion percentage on the season which broke down as 57.65% completion percentage to players other than Edelman and 69.5% when targeting Edelman.

These are the targets to attempts of other tandems that played the majority of their snaps together this season, Brady was not jamming the ball down Edelman’s throat, he was receiving a #1 receiver percent of Brady’s attempts just like our slot WR has every year since 2007.

• Karpernick/Boldin-31.25%
• Dalton/Green-30.72%
• Romo/Bryant-29.91%
• Roethlisberger/Brown-28.25%
• Stafford/Johnson-24.61%
• Luck/Hilton-24.21%
• Trannehill/Wallace-24.15%
• Brady/Edelman-24.04%
• Palmer/Fitzgerald-23.78%
• Flacco/Smith-22.64%
• Manning/Cruz-22.32%
• Brees/Graham-22.15%

I would be extremely happy to see Edelman stay here, and I hope they can get it done, but there have been many times where we've been discussing the prospect of him leaving for bigger money, and you can't blame Belichick for that if he chooses not to overpay.

I would blame him if he let Edelman walk, I understood letting Welker walk because of age but to let Brady’s #1 target walk 2 years in a row is a terrible decision, Edelman is 27 years old and personally, I have no reason to believe that 2013 was not the start of a very good NFL career for Edelman. He was a QB in college this is his 5th season player WR, which equates to a college player + a rookie season in terms of positional experience.

So.....Amendola is going to fail because he's going into his 7th year and the average NFL career is only 6.86 years?

But Edelman (who's going into his 6th year) is still good, because he falls under the bar of "6.86" years?

Boy, that one year difference really makes a hell of a difference.

I never said he was going to fail, but it is ambitious to expect Amendola to make the leap from a player who has 689 yards, 666 yards, and 633 yards in his last 3 seasons (removed 2011 due to injury) to a 100+ catch, 1000+ yards receiver in his seventh NFL season. Edelman is a 100+ catch, 1000 yards receiver already so he is not a comparable.

Bingo says hi.

 

[Kontradiction]

The system is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth that you are a slave, Brady6. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

 

[supafly]

Bingo says hi.

Along with Brown, we've seen Welker, Boldin, and probably at least 100+ other WRs in the history of the NFL who have shown great talent after playing over the 6.86 year bar.

Obviously, I was being sarcastic, which I'm sure you realize, but others may not.

 

[supafly]

He was targeted 175 times resulting in 121 catches, 1229 yards, 63 first downs, and 7 touchdowns when you combine regular and post seasons.

Okay, thanks. So I was ONE target off with my 174, while the reality is that it was 175.

I agree with you evaluation of Edelman’s worth personally but the reality is that Amendola, Welker, Harvin and Cruz were all paid significantly more last offseason

All of Welker, Amendola, Harvin, and Cruz were severely overpaid last season. It may make GMs a bit more leery before handing out those big pacts this year. We'll have to see.

Based on discussions we have had you do not seem to have an issue with the contract given to Danny Amendola which would average out at $5.7M annually. Why do you feel Edelman worth so much less?

I trust the professional and proven talent evaluation of coach Belichick, and Amendola was the consensus around the NFL for "next best thing" after Wes Welker. That's why I don't have much of a problem with it.

Under the circumstances in Amendola's so-called "horrible" year, he still averaged 4.5 catches per game and caught 2/3 of his targets. I'm not going to make an evaluation based on only one year, and even if it doesn't work out, Belichick can move on from Amendola after cap hits of 3.5m and 4.6m, which isn't nearly as bad as you like to make it out to be.

I did not see Brady jamming the ball down his throat, Brady had a 60.2% completion percentage on the season which broke down as 57.65% completion percentage to players other than Edelman and 69.5% when targeting Edelman.

I actually think that this only proves my point even more that we had an obvious lack of talent, and that Brady and Belichick continue to utilize the shorter pass attack more often than not.

Brady had a 69% completion rate when targeting Edelman, and a 65% completion rate when targeting Amendola. It's not like this was a night and day comparison. Julian Edelman was the one who saw the majority of the targets, so he benefitted from more catches and the ability to stay healthy.

I never said he was going to fail, but it is ambitious to expect Amendola to make the leap from a player who has 689 yards, 666 yards, and 633 yards in his last 3 seasons (removed 2011 due to injury) to a 100+ catch, 1000+ yards receiver in his seventh NFL season. Edelman is a 100+ catch, 1000 yards receiver already so he is not a comparable.

When did Amendola see 175 targets? That's the entire premise of anyone's stance who isn't nearly as worried as you are. We've seen obvious chemistry with Amendola/Brady, so the only real issue is the ability for Amendola to stay healthy and actually see as many targets as Edelman did this year.

Of course you also seem to overlook the fact that Edelman hasn't been able to stay healthy either, and has really only had one year under very odd circumstances.

We can go back and forth for the next 6 weeks on this, but Belichick's opinion is the only one that will matter. If Edelman is willing to take less money to stay here, then all the better. I hope that he does. I also think we both know that there's no way in hell that Belichick is going to choose to pay Edelman 6-7 million dollars, and that's been my main point the entire time.

 

[Brady6]

I do not think that people would agree with that, the fact is Welker helped get the Broncos into the SB and Harvin was one of the key players that helped the Seahawks win the SB. Cruz was by far the most productive player on his team in offensively. The only player that would be perceived as overpaid is Amendola, ¾ is not that bad.

I trust the professional and proven talent evaluation of coach Belichick, and Amendola was the consensus around the NFL for "next best thing" after Wes Welker. That's why I don't have much of a problem with it.

Under the circumstances in Amendola's so-called "horrible" year, he still averaged 4.5 catches per game and caught 2/3 of his targets. I'm not going to make an evaluation based on only one year, and even if it doesn't work out, Belichick can move on from Amendola after cap hits of 3.5m and 4.6m, which isn't nearly as bad as you like to make it out to be.

The problem with Amendola is that he is inconsistent; he had 24 receptions and 357 yards in 3 games against the Bills, Steelers and Dolphins. In the other 11 games he played, he had 33 catches for 353 yards. As I have said to you multiple times if you look at his game logs over the years that has been his M/O. He can exploit certain match ups but he is not a reliable threat week in and week out.

As for Belichick talent evaluations, while I think he is the greatest coach of all time he is not flawless in personnel decisions and we all know that.

• Lloyd
• Johnson
• Price
• Tate
• Jenkins
• Jones
• Hawkins
• Gaffney
• Salas
• Fells
• Gonzalez
• Shiancoe
• Stallworth
• Winslow Jr.

Those are the free agent and early draft picks that we have seen from the WR and TE position over the past few years other than Gronkowski, Hernandez, Dobson, and Boyce; the latter 2 are TBD. I do not know if I would hang my hat on trusting everything Belichick does especially when it pertains to receivers and defensive backs.

I actually think that this only proves my point even more that we had an obvious lack of talent, and that Brady and Belichick continue to utilize the shorter pass attack more often than not.

Brady had a 69% completion rate when targeting Edelman, and a 65% completion rate when targeting Amendola. It's not like this was a night and day comparison. Julian Edelman was the one who saw the majority of the targets, so he benefitted from more catches and the ability to stay healthy.

No offense Sup but your conjecture is that Edelman was gift wrapped a 100+ catch, 1000+ yards season because he was the only player on offense. If there are less players to defend the defense actually focuses more on that player so achieving that would be more difficult.

When did Amendola see 175 targets? That's the entire premise of anyone's stance who isn't nearly as worried as you are. We've seen obvious chemistry with Amendola/Brady, so the only real issue is the ability for Amendola to stay healthy and actually see as many targets as Edelman did this year.

Amendola was targeted 101 times last season in 11 games, 123 times in 2010 in 16 games. Amendola never made the playoffs prior to this season so we cannot compare Edelman’s 18 games worth of targets to his. As far as talking about the lack of opportunity that Amendola had in his career in context to Edelman that is laughable brother, not trying to sound like a **** but Edelman was targeted, Amendola was targeted more times in the first 4 games of 2012 than Edelman was targeted in 2011 and 2012 combined.

We can go back and forth for the next 6 weeks on this, but Belichick's opinion is the only one that will matter. If Edelman is willing to take less money to stay here, then all the better. I hope that he does. I also think we both know that there's no way in hell that Belichick is going to choose to pay Edelman 6-7 million dollars, and that's been my main point the entire time.

I do not know that it is true to say he will not pay Edelman, I think Belichick like players that come up through the system and develop into very good football players. He paid Arrington $4M per last season and I do not think anybody thought that was a likelihood.

 

[supafly]

I do not think that people would agree with that, the fact is Welker helped get the Broncos into the SB and Harvin was one of the key players that helped the Seahawks win the SB. Cruz was by far the most productive player on his team in offensively. The only player that would be perceived as overpaid is Amendola, ¾ is not that bad.

Huh?

The fact is that all of those players were overpaid when you look at what they got on their extension. None of them could really be argued as being worth it, aside from maybe Welker, and even he is a threat to be cut on a 6m AAV salary.

You totally lost me with the Percy Harvin comment, who didn't play more than a quarter or so prior to the last SB game. If you see that as "one of the key players" during the Seahawks run, I don't know what to tell you. One would assume that paying someone 11+ million wouldn't be worth ONE NFL game in 2013.

His TD return in that one game occurred when the score was 22-0 and the game was well in hand. I can't see you could seriously argue that he wasn't severely overpaid for that production? Hell, one could argue that he'd have been overpaid at anything more than the veteran minimum.

 

[manxman2601]

The system is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work... when you go to church... when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth that you are a slave, Brady6. Like everyone else you were born into bondage. Into a prison that you cannot taste or see or touch. A prison for your mind.

Apple 1984 Super Bowl Commercial Introducing Macintosh Computer (HD) - YouTube