What is Slater doing on this team??

[Deus Irae]

Hobbs himself said he was barfing and cramping up and couldn't go. Slater was out there because in camp and in practise he'd shown that he had talent enough to be a backup KR guy. Made a rookie mistake on the job, not that Troy Brown or whomever ever lost a kick. Nah.

Now all those whining "Why doesn't BB give (insert favorite rookie's name here) a chance?" knows that there are potential downsides as well as upsides.

But if it had been Crable!

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Answering the question:

"Not much."

Next question.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

But if it had been Crable!

My man, The Crab!

 

[DaBruinz]

Normally a rookie position player has to make the team through special teams contributions. Slater was a KR in college and if he didnt return kicks its safe to say he wouldnt be drafted(or is it,lol?). I dont know why you would defend the guy, I am unsure you are. But with our thin, thin thin DB offseason/history it sure would make more sense to let Wheatley return kicks(he did in college)and draft another DB....or keep one of the DBs we cut in camp. Maybe it was a bit of a salary cap move, but arent we like the 24th highest payroll this year? Truth is we could have fit A.Samuel under the cap, but I am not arguing for that at all. Wouldnt you be alot happier if the guy who cost you the game had an upside higher than what you have seen so far this year? This guy has NO upside, NONE.

Jeff - your entire assessment and understanding of what Slater was in college has so many holes in it. Slater wasn't just a KR in college. Slater was the BEST special teams player in the country in college. In college, he played on multiple special teams units, like he does for the pats.

And please stop with this "24th in salary BS." SALARY doesn't mean a damn thing. Its total of SALARY CAP USED. And the Patriots used all but 4 million of it and I believe they are going to use the rest either on extensions or move it into next year. You really shouldn't use arguments that you don't fully comprehend as justification as to why a 5th round pick shouldn't be on this team. It makes you look even more foolish than you already do.

 

[DaBruinz]

You make my point again for me....if he has only 9 returns why is he still on the team? He is running behind the same ST that Hobbs is, how many returns does Hobbs have over 40?? If you cant give the main guy a decent blow(if not making him obsolete), and you cant back up another position, and you are an "average" gunner....Cant we find ONE guy that knows how to play DB and can return 9 kicks a year?? Andrews got caught with pot, but he backed up the DBs AND returned a kick for a TD besides being the fastest guy on the team. Not sure Slater is or could ever be any of those things....besides the pot.

Why does Slater only have 9 returns? Because he's the BACK-UP kick returner, maybe and because he plays on other special teams units.

As for how many returns over 40 yards that Hobbs has, what does it matter?

BTW, its funny that you mention Andrews because the kick he returned was one that they kicked away from Hobbs.

You really don't understand the controlled chaos of returns and that just because someone does something well that you can change that person out with another and that person will have the same success.

 

[Urgent]

Prior to this game, Slater had a total of 9 kick returns, with the longest being a 31 yarder. How does that translate into a failure because he has yet to break one for over 40 yards?

That's actually a decent stat to use to measure this guy.

So, is the point that it's sort of foolish to label Slater a failure because he has yet to break a 40-yard return? Wow, that sounds unfair.

Strangely, the important yards-per-return stat is missing from this analysis. Let's look it up. Right now he has 11 returns for 155 yards.

That's 14 yards per return.

Hmm, is that good or bad? Well, they seem to pretty much give you 20 yards if you catch it and bring it out to the wedge, so that doesn't seem very good. Let's compare it to Hobbs, who is returning behind the same blockers, facing the same coverage. Hobbs, of course, is probably winded from playing starting corner all game, and is facing a lot more bruises and tears.

Anyway, Hobbs has 38 returns for 1043 yards. That's 27.4 per return. Just about double Slater.

So, statistically, that says Slater absolutely sucks.
He has five total tackles, so he isn't helping out on defense.
He has a dropped pass, no receptions, so he isn't helping out on offense.

There is lots of advice for moderation here, but I think through 12 games we have seen enough to objectively label Slater a failure. You can look at his total lack of contribution, his critical fumble, and his horrible statistical performance. It's unsurprising, given that he had similar performance in college, with zero tackles as a safety. He may be very fast, but he sucks at football.

 

[DaBruinz]

Kelly Washington?? Is he still on the team?? He didnt dress for several of the games last year but made 1 nice play downing a punt and a punt block...and is back to his typical inactive status.

WRONG. Kelley Washington didn't dress last year cause he was hurt. Washington played amazingly well on special teams. Washington missed 2 games last year cause of injury. He's missed 4 this year because of injury. NOT because he was inactive. You need to get your facts straight because that is the who problem with your argument. You don't have the proper facts and because you don't, you make this simply idiotic conclusions.

Steve Tasker?? The best ST player ever....tell me you arent comparing Slater to HIM!!

Then in the same breath throw Randy Moss under the bus, like he hasnt ever done anything to WIN a game.....unbelievably moronic.

What is moronic is the hypocrisy with which you judge players. If Randy makes that End zone TD catch, its a whole different game. What is MORONIC is you offering up your opinion on Slater while not considering all the facts.

 

[DaBruinz]

I was a fan of the pick, back when I assumed that he would become a Troy Brown, Steve Tasker, special teams ace. He has not become an ace, and has been a liability. He has given us nothing in returns or as a gunner. I think he will have a tough time making the team next year. The FO made a mistake.

Tell me, Mack. Just what did Troy Brown do in his 1st year that made him a special teams ace? I mean, besides getting cut and having to have BB lobby for Parcells to bring him back?

Troy Brown: Career Stats

Troy Brown was just SO AWESOME. I mean, that 16.2 YPR on kick offs was AMAZING. Really lit it up. And with a long of 26 YARDS. WOW. I mean, that just blows the socks off of Slater. And I mean, the 2 fumbles are REALLY IMPRESSIVE.

You've got to love the revisionist history that some of you people have in regards to some of the better Patriots players.

 

[DaBruinz]

This coming from a LeKevin Smith fan, that makes alot of sense.........Talk about sucking..........

Considering how nonsensical you have been, that's actually a compliment to Keegs.

While I wanted CJack to make this team, he didn't. They ended up cutting him (and CJ JONES) and keeping Aiken because CJack didn't do enough to earn Brady's trush. Its unfortunate. But it happens. Its time to move on.

 

[DaBruinz]

You have been a pats fan long enough to remember that Troy was cut his first year? By your standards, Slater is already ahead of the curve.

I just double checked. Troy wasn't cut his first year. He was put on the IR and waived in TC prior to his second.

As I said in another post, there is revisionist history going on regarding Brown. And I showed it. So you are correct there.

 

[Deus Irae]

That's actually a decent stat to use to measure this guy.

So, is the point that it's sort of foolish to label Slater a failure because he has yet to break a 40-yard return? Wow, that sounds unfair.

Strangely, the important yards-per-return stat is missing from this analysis. Let's look it up. Right now he has 11 returns for 155 yards.

That's 14 yards per return.

Hmm, is that good or bad? Well, they seem to pretty much give you 20 yards if you catch it and bring it out to the wedge, so that doesn't seem very good. Let's compare it to Hobbs, who is returning behind the same blockers, facing the same coverage. Hobbs, of course, is probably winded from playing starting corner all game, and is facing a lot more bruises and tears.

Anyway, Hobbs has 38 returns for 1043 yards. That's 27.4 per return. Just about double Slater.

So, statistically, that says Slater absolutely sucks.
He has five total tackles, so he isn't helping out on defense.
He has a dropped pass, no receptions, so he isn't helping out on offense.

There is lots of advice for moderation here, but I think through 12 games we have seen enough to objectively label Slater a failure. You can look at his total lack of contribution, his critical fumble, and his horrible statistical performance. It's unsurprising, given that he had similar performance in college, with zero tackles as a safety. He may be very fast, but he sucks at football.

I'm not going to delve too deeply into this because I think it's ridiculous to be calling a rookie picked in the 5th round a "bust" when he's made the team, but your analysis fails for a simple reason:

Not all 9 returns were from the deep return position normally held by Hobbs. When short kicks are included in a 9 kick total, the data is useless. Of course, using 9 kicks as your data is pretty much useless to begin with.

 

[DaBruinz]

I hated the Slater pick (and pretty much the rest of the draft) from day one. The mere fact that we traded our 5th and 7th round picks to get this guy just burns me. He has been an absolute bust! He has fumbled more kicks than he has caught. I have yet to see him make a tackle as the gunner, I have seen him run past the returner as he goes upfield.

Ellis is a great KR, however, most of the time, he is tired because he has just been on the field for a long TD drive. He should return the opening KO. I can't believe that this team, does not have someone better than Slater.

You know you've had a bad draft when two undrafted Rookie Free agents outplay and outperform the rest of your draft class (aside from Mayo).

FTW - You are normally one to use facts. In this case you aren't.

FACT: Slater has 2 fumbles on the season.
FACT: Slater has 9 non-fumbled returns.
FTW FALSEHOOD: He has fumbled more kicks than he has caught

FACT: The Patriots drafted 7 players
FACT: 3 of said 7 have suffered season ending injurys
FACT: It takes 3 years to fully evaluate a draft
FACT: The Gary Guyton made the team out of TC and Vince Redd just signed with the team from the PS last week. BJGE was signed off the Practice Squad during week 6.
FACT: Crable, Wheatley, Wilhite, and Slater all made the team out of camp. All of them, except Crable, have game time experience.

FTW SHORT TERM VIEW: You know you've had a bad draft when two undrafted Rookie Free agents outplay and outperform the rest of your draft class

REALITY: BJGE has been such a find that he's been an afterthought the last 3 games. What does that really tell you about him?

Slater has 4 tackles and 1 assisted tackle. Just because you don['t see it doesn't mean its not happening.

 

[DaBruinz]

He has 4 tackles in 11 games, none of which were inside the 20 yard line. He has 11 KO retunrs, of which he has fumbled 2 of them, and has a stellar 14.1 KO average compared to Ellis' 27.4 avg.

He was a bust long before he fumbled yesterday.

No he wasn't. I mean, seriously, are you holding it against him that 3 of the KRs he's had have been when he wasn't the primary returner and got the ball on short kick-offs? When you are starting your return between your 20 and 30 yard line, that is a short kick tended to keep the ball away from the primary returner. Very very few players are going to get a long return on those sorts of plays. And Slater has 3 of those.

BTW, take a look at Troy Brown's rookie stats and then tell me what you think of Slater's.

 

[DaBruinz]

That's actually a decent stat to use to measure this guy.

So, is the point that it's sort of foolish to label Slater a failure because he has yet to break a 40-yard return? Wow, that sounds unfair.

Strangely, the important yards-per-return stat is missing from this analysis. Let's look it up. Right now he has 11 returns for 155 yards.

That's 14 yards per return.

2 of those have been fumbles and 3 of them were short kick-offs meant to keep the ball away from Hobbs.

Hmm, is that good or bad? Well, they seem to pretty much give you 20 yards if you catch it and bring it out to the wedge, so that doesn't seem very good. Let's compare it to Hobbs, who is returning behind the same blockers, facing the same coverage. Hobbs, of course, is probably winded from playing starting corner all game, and is facing a lot more bruises and tears.

Anyway, Hobbs has 38 returns for 1043 yards. That's 27.4 per return. Just about double Slater.

So, statistically, that says Slater absolutely sucks.[/quote[

Its double slaters on 4 times the number or returns. Compare it to Troy Brown's rookie year when Brown averaged 16.2 YPR and had 2 fumbles.

He has five total tackles, so he isn't helping out on defense.

Those 4 tackles and 1 assisted tackle have come on special teams. Slater hasn't been burned on defense, but then, If he's taken more than a half-dozen snaps this season, I'd be surprised.

He has a dropped pass, no receptions, so he isn't helping out on offense.

He's only been out on the offense for 1 play. Again, he's primarily a special teams player. And, for a rookie, he's doing as well as Troy Brown did.

There is lots of advice for moderation here, but I think through 12 games we have seen enough to objectively label Slater a failure. You can look at his total lack of contribution, his critical fumble, and his horrible statistical performance. It's unsurprising, given that he had similar performance in college, with zero tackles as a safety. He may be very fast, but he sucks at football.

If he sucks at football, then you suck at talent evaluation. To say that you can OBJECTIVELY label Slater a failure after 12 games is BS and you know it. Otherwise, you'd have had to same the same thing about Troy Brown. Because Troy had nearly identical stats through 12 games his rookie year.

Yes, a similar performance in college. He was a special teams ace, lining up on multiple units. God forbid that he's a rookie and makes rookie mistakes.

 

[Spiral]

I don't know what Hobbs had that was making him barf before that kickoff, but I think it's contagious. I felt like barfing right after.

 

[Jimke]

I posted during draft time, not understanding this pick...a guy who basically had NO position in college besides a KR. Guys that are drafted as KRs usually have to do something special in camp to make the team. He didnt. I was comparing him to Quentin Demps, rookie with the Eagles who returned a kick for a TD in preseason and MADE the team. I was more than a little shocked that Slater made the team because he cant back up a position and his kick returns simply arent "special". With the rash of injuries at DB we certainly could have used depth there....
So today he boots the kickoff and basically gives Pitt a TD and the momentum that they used to win the game. If we are down by 3 their LBs dont have their ears pinned back and dont strip sack MC twice costing the game. Everyone that has defended him in the past please chime in to defend him, he has been active for every game but hasnt made a single big play(that was til tonite)~~~I would rather have another CB that cant tackle than a STer that blows games.

Putting Slater into a key game under adverse weather conditions
was a big mistake by the coaching staff especially when Faulk was
available to spell Hobbs.

I still scratch my head over why the Pats traded up to draft Slater.
The player they were looking to draft in the 5th round was Zack
Bowman.

 

[Pats726]

I know KW is the new CJ for this board, but lets not put him in the hall of fame just yet. He hasnt done much again this year, how many games has he actually dressed? But even I can defend his spot on the team because he both plays ST AND backs up the WR position(albeit desperately). I am a biologist, and I am methodical....this guy should have been on the PS all year, so we could have learned what he can do in practice BEFORE he had a chance to lose a game. He may well be YOUR Troy Brown, but even he got CUT multiple times. MY Troy Brown had a POSITION he played(several of them in fact!), this guy is a coach's toy, nothing more. If he were any good he would have supplanted Hobbs on this we can agree. And the FO doesnt know more than EVERYONE, they make mistakes. The question is how quickly they aknowledge those mistakes.....

It's funny how you ran away from what you said and MY charge about you knowing about the football team..typical...instead of answering what I aid, you go on some off teh topic rant that has NOTHING to do with what I said....

Kelly Washington?? Is he still on the team?? He didnt dress for several of the games last year but made 1 nice play downing a punt and a punt block...and is back to his typical inactive status. .....

That was what you said..and you clearly can NOT defend that..which is why you went into some other topic. you made a statement about how he missed several games last year...then made some dumb remark about how he is back to his typical inactive status... Firstly...he did not miss "several" games last year..was only inactive in two games..and that was for a hamstrong. His typical staus on the team is on special teams and a backup WR..but mostly ST. He has missed five games this year..4, Games 3-6 with an ankle injury and yesterday's game because of a thigh injury. So if you KNEW about the team, his role and how he has been injured, you wouldn't be making statements like that. you would KNOW about it..But instead, just throw out words..."typical inactive status"..which is basically WRONG!! So please get a handle on knowing your team before showing how you do not.
Now to your rant...who is putting him in the Hall of Fame?? No...the coaches thought he could do multiple things and that was one of the reasons he was on the 53..THAT is for sure..and I am sure they KNOW what he can do..If you think they put him out there before KNOWING that..well..then that is a pretty poor undesrtanding about coaching... As to now claiming somehow he's "MY Troy Brown".. No I do not agree..there's more to ST than returning kicks...there's a lot of coverage and blocking as well on STs..And of course FOs make mistakes...everyone's does..but I think you want instant answers and THAT does not happen..maybe to a biologist it would...where there is black/white an dno gray...but in evaluating players and player's development..that is more an art than any science..but this is as much one of the draft or of evaluating ANY players..hardly a science.....
But Please..you are contaminating samples here...MINE had nothing at all to do with anything u just said...you ran away from that sample..but I have looked at it..and have dealt with the new one as well...

 

[JoeSixPat]

I can't help but wonder if there's criticism of Slater today if he hadn't mishandled a wet ball in cold conditions yesterday.

It DOES happen people - ESPECIALLY in those conditions. Let's not over-react here.

 

[DaBruinz]

I can't help but wonder if there's criticism of Slater today if he hadn't mishandled a wet ball in cold conditions yesterday.

It DOES happen people - ESPECIALLY in those conditions. Let's not over-react here.

No, there wouldn't be.

What else is funny is that as soon Troy's stats from his rookie year were brought up, people starting piping down..

 

[Kontradiction]

BB only drafted and plays him because he comes from a "football family" just like BB does and he thinks that's cool

Pretty stupid way to evaluate talent

This coming from the guy with this in his sig:

I'm basically the best madden player in franchise mode in the US

I'm pretty sure I know how to build a successful franchise

You do know there is a HUGE dropoff from Madden to the real thing right?