Two writers think Pats hiring McDaniels is unfair

[lamafist]

Looking at the issue, just in general terms, I think it is bad policy for the league to allow coaches to jump ship during playoffs. Sorry. If the acquiring team is still in the playoffs, it shouldn't be allowed. Of course we are talking about a league that turns its back on player tampering...so why enact another charade. But can't you see a scenario where playoff team A approaches a team out of the playoffs and says, "Let me hire your guy for the short term and we can work out compensation." Can O' Worms...I say

I see your point, but the problem is the NFL can't actually disallow it. Absent a collective bargaining agreement with a union entitled to negotiate on behalf of all coordinators and assistant coaches, the NFL can't just go and restrict where Josh McDaniels is allowed to seek employment. The only people with any say were the Rams, with whom McDaniels was still under contract.

When the Broncos fired McDaniels, he could easily have turned around and started working for the Chiefs, given his connection with Cassel, and been guaranteed to play them twice a week, and rather than be a 'scandal' story, it would hyped as a 'grudge match.' Heck, if he'd wanted, he could have worked as a freelance consultant for whomever was playing the Broncos the next week, and there's nothing anyone in the league could have done about it.

 

[PatsFan24]

Two writers - Mike Klis of the Denver Post and Yahoo's Michael Silver - think the Patriots are gaining an unfair competitive advantage by being able to add Josh McDaniels to their coaching staff for the post-season.

The Denver writer in particular wastes no time letting his feelings become known.

Broncos, playoff teams should officially protest Josh McDaniels hire in New England | First-and-Orange

His opening sentence:


And he closes with this:


Perhaps he has a point, but I find it impossible to even consider his opinion when he trots out the tired old 'cheaters' crap.



Here's Silver's article; it's at the very end of the column. He too brings up the cheating angle. Apparently the move would be okay if another coach did it, but it's not okay because it's Belichick. Broncos given no choice but to embrace Tebow - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

I don't give a flying **** what these tools say. They can spit out their bull**** all they want but it will not get me to read it or respect it.

 

[dex13]

complete bull...the only reason they are complain is that its the patriots who did the hiring.

Nobody in uproar when the Pats OC got hired during the playoffs.
Nobody will be in uproar when the Rams hire a new coach during the playoffs.

Its alright for a team to have their staff hired away during the playoffs but if they try and replace that staff member, they are doing something wrong.
Talk about a double standard.

 

[Wolfpack]

I see your point, but the problem is the NFL can't actually disallow it. Absent a collective bargaining agreement with a union entitled to negotiate on behalf of all coordinators and assistant coaches, the NFL can't just go and restrict where Josh McDaniels is allowed to seek employment. The only people with any say were the Rams, with whom McDaniels was still under contract.

The league can (and probably will) include rules restricting movement in the interest of competitive fairness without violating antitrust laws. I would not be surprised to see some sort of decision that a coach has to be a part of a team's staff by such-and-such a date in order to be eligible to be with them during the playoffs.

 

[Deus Irae]

The league can (and probably will) include rules restricting movement in the interest of competitive fairness without violating antitrust laws. I would not be surprised to see some sort of decision that a coach has to be a part of a team's staff by such-and-such a date in order to be eligible to be with them during the playoffs.

The problem with making such a rule is that it screws any playoff team who loses a coach to another program during the playoffs. That'll lead to attempts to prevent interviews and the like, and that'll lead to lawsuits.

It's really a no "win" situation that the league will just have to accept.

 

[Wolfpack]

The problem with making such a rule is that it screws any playoff team who loses a coach to another program during the playoffs. That'll lead to attempts to prevent interviews and the like, and that'll lead to lawsuits.

When has that happened in the NFL? We've seen several instances such where a playoff bound assistant coach or coordinator (such as O'Brien) interviews for, and even gets offered, other positions. But I can't think of an example where the coach just immediately up and left that team until that team's season was over. Like O'Brien, they finish out the year with their current team.

(NOTE: That sort of thing happens all the time to college programs where a coach jumps ship prior to a bowl game, but we're talking about the NFL here)

 

[Deus Irae]

When has that happened in the NFL? We've seen several instances such where a playoff bound assistant coach or coordinator (such as O'Brien) interviews for, and even gets offered, other positions. But I can't think of an example where the coach just immediately up and left that team until that team's season was over. Like O'Brien, they finish out the year with their current team.

(NOTE: That sort of thing happens all the time to college programs where a coach jumps ship prior to a bowl game, but we're talking about the NFL here)

I'm not going to go looking those up. You're welcome to do so.

The reality is that the McDaniels signing is not the first time this has happened. It's not a big deal, and it's not something that should be an issue for the league. It's a by-product of the league allowing ousted teams to get a jump on replacing coaches, not something aimed at improving the staffs of playoff teams.

The league used to have a policy against allowing teams to interview coaches on teams in the playoffs. They changed that. I doubt this will lead to any kind of pullback. Even Goodell's not that stupid.

 

[Wolfpack]

I'm not going to go looking those up. You're welcome to do so.

Translation: It's never happened and your supporting point is 100% bankrupt and I totally called you out on it but since you're too stubborn and arrogant to admit you were (gasp! ) wrong, you're going to tell me to research the point that you are trying to make.

Essentially your bankrupt argument is: "I'm right and you're wrong and if you don't believe me, just go look it up!"

The reality is that the McDaniels signing is not the first time this has happened.

Really? When has this sort of thing ever happened before? In otherwords, when has a team in the playoffs hired a coach who worked for another team that very same season until that team's season ended?

(Here comes another "I'm not going to go looking those up. You're welcome to do so." response...)

 

[Deus Irae]

Translation: It's never happened and your supporting point is 100% bankrupt and I totally called you out on it but since you're too stubborn and arrogant to admit you were (gasp! ) wrong, you're going to tell me to research the point that you are trying to make.

No...

Translation: I'm not going to waste time verifying this. You're welcome to do so.

Essentially your bankrupt argument is: "I'm right and you're wrong and if you don't believe me, just go look it up!"

I didn't make an argument about it. You did. I simply noted that I wasn't going to look it up and that you could do so if you chose.

Really? When has this sort of thing ever happened before? In otherwords, when has a team in the playoffs hired a coach who worked for another team that very same season until that team's season ended?

(Here comes another "I'm not going to go looking those up. You're welcome to do so." response...)

Denver Post columnist says Pats 'cheat system'

Someone else mentioned another instance, involving the Steelers, I believe, but I'm not sure about the team. You can look that one up if you choose. I'm in a couple of discussions already, and I don't need to add your trolling to the list, so have fun.

 

[strngplyr]

Translation: It's never happened and your supporting point is 100% bankrupt and I totally called you out on it but since you're too stubborn and arrogant to admit you were (gasp! ) wrong, you're going to tell me to research the point that you are trying to make.

Essentially your bankrupt argument is: "I'm right and you're wrong and if you don't believe me, just go look it up!"
Really? When has this sort of thing ever happened before? In otherwords, when has a team in the playoffs hired a coach who worked for another team that very same season until that team's season ended?

(Here comes another "I'm not going to go looking those up. You're welcome to do so." response...)

2009.

]Cowboys had similar hire in '09 playoffs - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

There is nothing different. An assistant/coordinator gets a job in a college program and his replacement joins the team during the playoffs. The replacement also played for another team during the 09 season and was fired at the end of it.

It happens, it isn't common, but this isn't the first time. The only reason there is a big deal being made out of it is because the Patriots are an easy target for the media and McDaniels coached the Bronco's 2 seasons ago.

 

[Wolfpack]

Someone else mentioned another instance, involving the Steelers, I believe, but I'm not sure about the team. You can look that one up if you choose. I'm in a couple of discussions already, and I don't need to add your trolling to the list, so have fun.

I know you're the most argumentative person in this forum (because you've never ever been wrong about anything in your entire life) but here's a clue: If you make a statement, it falls upon you to back it up. It does not fall upon other people to research a statement you made.

Maybe someday you'll grow up and understand that you don't have to be right all the time.

 

[Deus Irae]

I know you're the most argumentative person in this forum (because you've never ever been wrong about anything in your entire life) but here's a clue: If you make a statement, it falls upon you to back it up. It does not fall upon other people to research a statement you made.

Maybe someday you'll grow up and understand that you don't have to be right all the time.

Umm.... I WAS right. I hadn't argued, you had, yet I still posted a link after your whine, and someone else posted a link as well. If one of us needed to 'grow up' with this exchange, it was you. A "My bad" would have been appropriate. Instead, you chose to troll once again.

 

[Wolfpack]

2009.

]Cowboys had similar hire in '09 playoffs - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

There is nothing different. An assistant/coordinator gets a job in a college program and his replacement joins the team during the playoffs. The replacement also played for another team during the 09 season and was fired at the end of it.

It happens, it isn't common, but this isn't the first time. The only reason there is a big deal being made out of it is because the Patriots are an easy target for the media and McDaniels coached the Bronco's 2 seasons ago.

That's a good example of something similar, but not exactly like what the Pats did. The outrage is coming from the fact that the Patriots picked up a guy who has a pretty intimate knowledge of the Broncos' system. It isn't because it was the Patriots who did it (despite the persecution complex of most of the fans in here). I doubt many would care if the Patriots went out and grabbed Todd Haley.

We've seen this exact sort of thing many times before, albeit with players who have been cut by a certain team being picked up by that team's upcoming opponent. Of course, in those instances, there are procedures and waivers that must be followed.

Fact is that this is a non-issue, but the Denver coumnists are getting people to talk about it anyway - which is exactly what they hoped to accomplish.

 

[Patspsycho]

The outrage is coming from the fact that the Patriots picked up a guy who has a pretty intimate knowledge of the Broncos' system.

I think it's more the intimate knowledge of their OC's tendencies and the players, but the option was installed after he left.

I just get a big kick out of this- those are the same people who couldn't wait to run McDaniels out of town because he was "incompetent," now they're acting like he's an unfair advantage, that he's all of a sudden quite "competent"?

 

[strngplyr]

That's a good example of something similar, but not exactly like what the Pats did. The outrage is coming from the fact that the Patriots picked up a guy who has a pretty intimate knowledge of the Broncos' system. It isn't because it was the Patriots who did it (despite the persecution complex of most of the fans in here). I doubt many would care if the Patriots went out and grabbed Todd Haley.

We've seen this exact sort of thing many times before, albeit with players who have been cut by a certain team being picked up by that team's upcoming opponent. Of course, in those instances, there are procedures and waivers that must be followed.

Fact is that this is a non-issue, but the Denver coumnists are getting people to talk about it anyway - which is exactly what they hoped to accomplish.

How is it any different? Their offense wasn't installed until nearly midway through this season.

McDaniels is over a full NFL season removed from that franchise, and if people are worried that he might tell us the terminology they used, he brought it from New England in the first place.

The fact is, its identical to Dallas hiring Miami's ex-DC during the playoffs to assist, apart from two things, Dallas wasn't facing Miami, and McDaniels wasn't fired, the Rams just chose not to retain him if he wanted to leave.

We gain just about as much usable knowledge as Dallas did, we are facing a different team from what McDaniels coached in 2009 and 2010.

A lot more can be learned about Tebow from watching tape after McDaniels left than when he was still in Denver.

McDaniels was brought in during the playoffs to assist O'Brien who is currently pulling double duties as he is the acting head coach of Penn State and the acting offensive coordinator of the New England Patriots.

I agree it is a non-story, but arguing it is any different than what Dallas did and that we are being scrutinized for any reason other than being an easy target (due to spygate, success, love/hatred of BB/TB, recent lack of playoff success, inside knowledge, etc. whatever you want to call it) is just silly.

 

[Wolfpack]

I agree it is a non-story, but arguing it is any different than what Dallas did and that we are being scrutinized for any reason other than being an easy target (due to spygate, success, love/hatred of BB/TB, recent lack of playoff success, inside knowledge, etc. whatever you want to call it) is just silly.

The Patriots are the most successful franchise in the NFL over the past decade so yes, anything they do is going to be scrutinized far more than would be if we were talking, for example, about the Browns or the Bills.

The league let them do what they did and that's good enough for me. Anything else is just whining by Denver Post columnists and Broncos fans. I can easily see you league deciding that going forward this is something they don't want allow. And I can easily see them deciding that this simply is not a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

[tuckeverlasting]

to me it's this simple. if denver didn't want us to ever rehire mcdaniels, they should'nt of fired him.

on a side note, i love the bitterness from espn. (see: jet fan) the fact that it is even being discussed on that hack network tells me it bothers them and that thrills me to no end. i love when bb tweaks bspn. what a bunch of whiney school girls.

 

[Steve102]

IMO this is a non-story. Broncos fired JM, Rams clearly didn't want him back. He's the natural pick to succeed O'brien, given JM's tenuous employment situation in St. Louis and his relationship wth Brady, BB, and the rest of the folks in Foxboro.

Think of how twisted everyone will get when in three years, BB retires and names JM successor. They'll drag all this up agin.

 

[Ron Sellers]

A short but very solid point on the subject that I had not yet seen or heard anybody mention:

Why Rams let McDaniels go | CSNNE.com

Josh McDaniels is in New England because the Rams probably felt he wouldn't be a fit with "Jeff Fisher or any other candidates for the head-coaching position," left vacant when Steve Spagnuolo was fired at the end of the season.

ESPN's Mike Sando pointed out that if the Rams fired McDaniels,they would be responsible for part of his salary. But since the Patriots hired him from the Rams, the Patriots will pick up the check.


So, even though some people may think the deal reeks of injustice, it appears the two teams directly involved were acting in their own best interest.

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

Oh no, it goes much, much beyond salary... (ominous foreshadowing of future post that will soon be posted that was deleted yesterday...)