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Tubby Ratfink helping Cutler become a Green Bean?

Discussion in 'NFL Football Forum' started by Tunescribe, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    From NFL.com:

    Eric Mangini was fired as the New York Jets’ coach after a disappointing conclusion to the 2008 season, but he could become a key factor in what would be the team’s biggest acquisition since, well, Brett Favre.

    Close to one year after he welcomed Favre’s short stay in the Big Apple, Mangini could help facilitate a deal that would put disgruntled Denver Broncos QB Jay Cutler in green and white, Rich Cimini writes in Thursday’s New York Daily News.

    Cimini suggests that the Jets have two of the three pieces required to make a move for Cutler — the salary-cap room and the draft picks. But the third element, a tradeable quarterback, is something that might require the help of a third team. Enter Mangini and his new team, the Cleveland Browns, who Cimini notes has two starting quarterbacks.

    “The former Jets coach has two viable quarterbacks, Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson, neither of whom has received an endorsement from Mangini. Quinn might be appealing to Broncos coach Josh McDaniels because he played at Notre Dame under Charlie Weis, who used to work with McDaniels in New England. Quinn is well-versed in the Weis/Patriots offensive system, which McDaniels will use in Denver.

    “That means the Browns could emerge as the third team in a potential three-way trade. The main components of a three-way deal would be the Jets getting Cutler, the Broncos getting Quinn and the Browns getting a premium draft pick (or picks) to help their rebuilding process. Without Mangini, the Jets would be hard-pressed to swing the deal.”
     
  2. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think it's likely that Mangini would directly cooperate in a 3-way with NY and Denver. He's not a particularly cooperative guy. But I do think that Cleveland could play a role. If Denver is going to trade Cutler they will need a long-term QB option, and I don't think it will be Chris Simms. Cleveland has 2 QBs, so I could see them trading either Anderson or Quinn to Denver as a precursor to Denver trading Cutler. Something like Denver trading #48 to Cleveland for Quinn and then trading Cutler to Detroit for #20 (or possibly 33), #65 and a 2010 1st round pick might do the trick. It would be poetic justice to trade Cutler to Detroit after all of his whining, though he probably wouldn't care about winning as long as he gets a big fat new contract. Detroit could then use #1 on Jason Smith or Eugene Monroe.
     
  3. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I saw this article and it makes no sense. First, McDaniels would want Brady Quinn and the Browns no matter what they say want to deal Anderson, not Quinn. After the way Anderson played last year, I can't see Mangini going into the season with him as the annoited starter especially with the real posibility of Stallworth missing part or all of the season.

    Second, Cutler is worth more than Quinn or Anderson (or even both combined). That means the Jets would have to send enough to satisfy the Browns for giving up Brady Quinn AND enough to satisfy the Broncos for giving up Cutler for only Brady Quinn. That is a lot to give up. It isn't the same as the three way with Cassel, Cutler, and another team since Quinn is the likely starter in Cleveland and the Browns would be left without a clear #1 QB.

    Third, why would Mangini want to help out the team that set him up as the fall guy and why would McDaniels want to help out Mangini or the Jets assuming he still has some loyalty to Belichick? I guess if the Jets give up a ton to satisfy both the Broncos and the Browns, it may be too good to pass up. McDaniels may see stripping the Browns of Quinn and giving the Jets Cutler where he doesn't have a receiving corp in New York to work with and not a lot of high picks to build that corp (assuming they would have to give up at least two high picks to get Cutler) as actually weakening both teams.

    I don't see it happening and I think it is pure speculation on Cimmini's part. I think the Jets have convinced themselves that Kellen Clemens is the real deal (or real enough to win like the Ravens did with Dilfer) and he just wasn't given a shot two years ago because of their o-line problems. I don't see them in the Culter sweepstakes really.

    I am personally not all that high on Cutler. I think he is overrated. I think he lacks the mental aspects of the game and is unwilling to do the prep work like a Brady or Manning to be one step of the opposing defense at all times. He is wildly inconsistent and doesn't seem to step up in big games. I think it may be a good for the Pats for the Jets to get him especially where he lacks a deep threat.
     
  4. Bertil

    Bertil Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Please God, I pray that this petulant cry-baby goes to the Evil Green....
     
  5. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I know the circumstances are completely different, but how much injustice would it be if we got a 2nd rounder for Cassel, and Mangini got a 1st for someone like Brady Quinn :p
     
  6. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    OK Mayo, test this one. Thoughts? The Vikings need a QB as they have two third stringers vying for the starting job. Ridiculous! This could be the block buster trade of the year. Cutler for Adrian Peterson straight up. The "face" of each franchise.
    Why would this work? The value is close. Both All Pros. The money should be close. Their original draft status was about the same. Now with the #12 pick in round one, Josh can go after a Stafford or Sanchez at QB and @#22 in round one and the Vikings can get RB Moreno or Brown. Two assaches for each team resolved. One has to move a crybaby QB and the other is one piece away of a legitimate SB contender.

    A RB is probably easier to replace than a QB so the Vikings are good. They will get a top RB in the draft. Josh gets one of these kids in Stafford or Sanchez and can mold them ala Cassel to what he wants, a team oriented, not "me first" like Cutler, QB. Simms can just manage the game if you have Peterson at RB, until the kids are ready. He has won some in the NFL. The Broncos can win games this way as long as Nolan ramps up a better "D". Everyone saves face and should be happy. Simms is certainly better than either of the Vikings "starters" at QB.

    Maybe Sanchez or Stafford will turn out better than Cutler, but Cutler made no difference last year for the Broncos in all reality. He was good but not "play off" good.

    Chester Taylor is decent RB and the Vikings can bring along a Moreno or a Wells or a Brown with less pressure.

    DW Toys
     
  7. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Personally, I wouldn't do this if I were Minnesota. Your arguments about RB longevity and ability to plug the position with lesser players is a good one. But Peterson is one of the rare special guys, and Minny's run game is the best in the NFL. Right now, as far as I'm concerned there's Peterson and then there's the other running backs in the NFL. Right now the Vikings have a running game and a great run defense, two o the most important pieces to a contending team. They greatly improved their pass rush last year with Jared Allen. All they need is a fairly decent QB to be a contender in the NFC. I think they can find a way to do that more cheaply than to trade away the franchise for a whinny QB who's never had a winning record. But some of your arguments are reasonable.

    If I were Denver, I'd do it in a shot. I would trade for one of the Cleveland QBs - preferably Quinn, as McDaniels probably prefers less of a gunslinger mentality than Anderson and Cutler offer, and would like to mold his own young QB anyway - and focus on rebuilding the defense. If I were Denver, the way things have detiorated with Cutler, trading him would probably be "addition by subtraction", though they'll never admit that as it would decrease what they could get for him.
     
  8. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    The only QB in the league with a weaker arm than Pennington is Brady Quinn. I could not believe my eyes when I watched Quinn start last year. I guess tossing a ball in altitude gives you an extra 10%......he needs alot more altitude than what Mile High has to offer
     
  9. BradyBranch39

    BradyBranch39 In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't.

    /..//
     
  10. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think it makes more sense for Mangini to let the two QB's battle for the starters job in TC.

    The Jets got what they deserve when they traded for a 38 year old QB and cut Pennington, let them suffer the consequences.
     
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That might work although generally speaking where QB competitions are concerned if you think you may have one or more starters on the roster it probably means you don't have any. I think Quinn could be a good starter in this league. If he lays off the power drinks...Charlie seemed to think so and he knows a lot more than any of us about what goes into that evaluation. Thing is Josh could use a guy familiar with this system and Quinn ran it for two years albeit at the college level. Mangini meanwhile will end up alienating and undercutting both Anderson and Quinn to the extent he's looking for Favre (probably in the form of Garcia) again by the end of camp... That's basically what he did to Pennington and Clemens last season and Eric doesn't seem to be inclined to learn from his mistakes. Nor is he ever humbled. Just a couple of the real differences between him and his real genius mentor. Eric just assumes he is.
     
  12. Lord_Reginald_III

    Lord_Reginald_III Practice Squad Player

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    these 'eric is a scumbag' posts never get old to me. i got nothing to add except, what a fat bastard. and i hope cutler doesn't come to ny, there's no way that doesn't make the jets better ChokeyMcCrybaby or not.
     
  13. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :agree: and may he continue to give us so much good material for a long time to come:D
     
  14. TealSox

    TealSox Guest

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    Detroit needs to make a move here. They didn't make a move for Cassel, which blew my mind. They really haven't made a move toward any free agent QB like the Vikes did with Sage Rosenfels (which I doubt answers anything there). And now they have this opportunity drop in their laps and I haven't heard a decent rumor about them making a move?!??!?!

    Lets assume that the Pats/KC set the market for a starting QB at a SECOND ROUND pick. If that were the case, Detroit should give up its second round pick (which as many would say, is essentially a low first rounder) for Jay Cutler. And since he is signed to a longer contract than Cassel was and they aren't being forced to take on more salary like KC did with Vrabel, maybe they toss in a fifth or sixth round pick.

    Obviously this leaves the Broncos with no QB and I don't know if I would really want to do this deal before draft day. The reason being, the option on the table might be to take Stafford, Sanchez or Freeman in the draft. Stafford would be the only viable option for that offense and with DET off the table for a QB, that might allow him to drop. Then you have teams trying to trade up, so it gets complicated.

    Browns would face a storm if they traded Quinn and kept Anderson for another year. Anderson should go to the Jets with his former Raven coach. I guess Tampa is simply sleeping through the drama too.
     
  15. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #75 Jersey

    Sure let him throw INTs while wearing green it doesn't make any difference.
     
  16. supafly

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't (either)

    Right now the Jets have basically no one, at best they may choose a rookie QB to try and mold. Sending Cutler to our division, (specifically the Jets, who have vastly improved in many areas and are looking for the last piece to the puzzle) only makes it tougher on us. This is almost like some people being 'glad' (?) that Terrell Owens is in Buffalo, regardless of whatever off the field drama these players bring--their a tougher option for us to face on the field now. And we have to see them 2 times a year also.
     
  17. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cutler will cost the Jets draft picks. The JESTS might get lucky and draft capable starters. Better that they have Cutler, a guy who has demonstrated zero clutch winning ability, is easily offended when things go wrong, will wilt under NY media glare, has a physical condition that could knock him out of football.
     
  18. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I understand the thinking, and respect your points and views. I would personally feel better though, with their lack of options right now. I'd rather them attempt to mold some rookie, who I feel we'd eat alive, and would hurt their offense this yr and next. I just don't feel the odds of finding another Matt Ryan, or Joe Flacco favors them too much. The jury is still out on Cutler as far as whether or not he's a good NFL QB, but he's not a bad one. I still feel overall he'd improve their team this yr. But I do say that respectively, as some would see it one way, and some would see it another. I just don't like to see added talent in the division, regardless of his contract issues or new coach issues, or whatever. He can throw the ball, and has better of a chance at prospering than a rookie would.

    But like I said, just an opinion, don't like disagreeing with a respected poster like yourself
     
  19. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You make a good case. Feel free to debate as you wish.

    Respected poster??? ROTFL! I know a bit about the Pats from following them for years and I do study BB's management style, but I know nothing about the draft.

    Me, I come here to see DIFFERENT well expressed opinions and to pick up the latest Pats facts just like you and many others.
     
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