Torn between FA WRs Mike Wallace and Brandon Lloyd...

[Deus Irae]

not as simple as you may think. are we the colts or the patriots. i like winning with defense. we need players that help our defense get off the field.

It's resource delegation. It's not rocket science.

 

[bucky]

Chad just doesn't have it physically and especially mentally anymore. It's much less about getting the system, I suspect.

Did Chad ever have it mentally? I think not. And I would absolutely put Stevie Johnson in that category. W/regard to Wallace, he may be able to pick up the offense, but there's just no way BB will give up a 1st round pick AND give him a market contract - which would be in the Santonio Holmes range.

 

[borg]

There is NO WAY BB is going to give a big contract to an outsider new to the system...NO WAY. Brady gets $18 mill, Welker franchised at $9 mill and likely to get 3/$24 mill, Gronk will be a must sign/break the bank TE....he has to stay....Way to much big money thrown at the passing game to expect BB to add another high priced chip long term. I expect a Reggie Wayne type signing for 2 year/$12 mill and a WR in the draft. The Pats are already very top heavy in contracts/short on depth...which flies in the face of the SB years where depth was a plus.
When the dust clears, BB will use one #1 on a D pick, trade the 2nd #1 for the usual #2 or #3 plus a future pick....and BB will grab a WR in the 2nd or 3rd and keep the gravy train of future picks alive. Personally, I'd like him to use an extra #2 as trade bait for a proven NFL stud....binky alert....Jonathan Stewart (my target for the last 2 years and still waiting)

Draft......Could this be the year for the DE pass rusher or the Big WR. Remember when BB didn't use #1s on RBs....or....Offensive linemen....or LBs. Myths get busted....why not now

 

[Elijah T.]

I'm not really torn at all. Lloyd makes more sense to me. Wallace is definitely younger, and has better straight line speed, but Lloyd knows the system and plays fast as well-- great seperation at the top of his route.

It would be exciting to get a player like Wallace, and I wouldn't be surprised to see BB go after him...They gameplanned and respected his speed so much that it left the underneath almost completely wide open.

We could probably get Lloyd for 12-15 million over three years, substantially less than Wallace, and if we're paying Welker 7 or 8 mill per (I'd like it to be 6), it wouldn't make sense to invest 14-17 million a year on two wideouts with our tight ends.

This is a very good year for young wideouts in the draft to develop slowly...even in the late rounds and UDFA's...Picking up a player like Lloyd, or Wayne would make more sense. Though I'd love a Wallace, Colston, or Vincent Jackson, if we can land Lloyd or Wayne we'll be ok with a couple rookie wideouts and Branch.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Is anyone considering the possibility that it may not be in Brady's best interest to throw deep passes. Perhaps the offense has shortened up for medical reasons ... just saying. If I was to spend money I would prefer a decent WR or two and spend the money on a terrific 3 down RB. I would go after Arian Foster and let Houston take our end of the round #1 pick.

 

[JoeSixPat]

It's no contest in my book - Wallace is the true deep receiving threat catching 5 receptions thrown 40 yards or longer last year.

Lloyd is a great threat - but not a great deep threat, and that's what the team needs, assuming Welker is back and doesn't hold out.

Given the WR franchise tag I suppose that could mean that if Welker goes elsewhere Lloyd and Wallace both could technically fit here - assuming that the rumblings that the Steelers might not even have the cap space to tag him

Talk heats up in Pittsburgh that Mike Wallace could leave | ProFootballTalk

I actually don't believe they'd let him loose for a second and I expect they'll be able to restructure enough contracts to tag him - but I'd still give up a 1st rounder for Wallace if the team feels he can understand the offense.

I mean it's not like it's a top 10 1st rounder - might as well be a 2nd round pick this year.

The main issue is whether our coaches have seen enough tape to know why Wallace had a drop off in the 2nd half of the season and obviously I'd respect the coaching staff's assessment on that.

 

[Elijah T.]

Personally, I'd like him to use an extra #2 as trade bait for a proven NFL stud....binky alert....Jonathan Stewart (my target for the last 2 years and still waiting)Draft......Could this be the year for the DE pass rusher or the Big WR. Remember when BB didn't use #1s on RBs....or....Offensive linemen....or LBs. Myths get busted....why not now

Don't mean to off track the thread, but I do like the idea of Jonathan Stewart...That guy is a hidden beast; every bit as good as Ray Rice and Maurice Jones Drew from a pure skill standoint. Sleeping Giant.

Jonathan Stewart Highlights HD - YouTube

He's on the last year of his contract which only pays him about 2 mill, so the draft pick value could be tricky but the cap cost is nothing for a talent like him.

Would love to see Jonathan Stewart with Vereen and Ridley.

 

[BPF]

Chad didn't see many balls because he couldn't execute what THIS O demands.

The issues weren't physical.

They're inter-related but when Chad Johnson came into the league he didn't have tremendous speed (4.57 40) and he wasn't that quick (7.51 3-cone) but he made plays because he had speed off the line. He doesn't seem as athletic and seems to have zero initial burst now, this was once a great asset (1.56 10 split). So he can no longer separate. He was more fluid and ran better routes then what we saw last season. He used to make acrobatic catches quite frequently and had good hands, this past season he couldn't even make the simple plays (see @ Buffalo and vs NYG reg season) and he never was great after the catch so that eliminates certain routes. So there is a physical drop off as well.

 

[robbomango]

Eddie Royal is a good candidate for worst WR in football. No thanks.

This is statement couldn't be any further from the truth, look past "The University of Denver Broncos" 2011 season and you'll see another situational problem. Lloyd avoided it like the plague.

He's 5'10 runs a 4.38 40time. shown great hands in his previous 3 seasons and worked under McDaniels system as well. His 2011 season will most likely cheapen his price.

We don't need another 5'10 slot guy that's for sure but if we did he's a great candidate imo.

Ugly blanketed statements don't offer much but If you have better knowledge I'm glad to hear it.

 

[stcjones]

I'm torn between who I want most... Lloyd alot cheaper (presumably) and JMD's buddy but older. Then Wallace, would need a 1st rounder plus his high salary but hes 26 years old and has immense speed and great hands... Who do we all prefer?

Is there any real chance we could keep Welker and get both Wallace and Lloyd? And in the process drop Ocho and maybe even Branch...?

Not that I think we'll have a shot at getting Wallace or that pats would pay what's required to get him...
but given the OP question ....Wallace by a long shot.

 

[tricktak]

Wallace will probably demand a bigger contract, and he'll cost a first rounder on top of that. I like the move from a 'youth' perspective, but there's certainly room for a debate here.

This is such a dumb argument, of course you give up a first round pick, are you kidding me? The patriots NEVER use the two first round picks they get and have on more than one occasion traded out of the first round completely. The patriots do not think highly of 1st round picks or even the draft for that matter. Name one receiver better in this draft that can come in and make a difference right away than Mike Wallace. He's only 26 years old so he is well worth the money you pay him and is also the outside the numbers explosive receiver the patriots need. The patriots gave wes welker when he was a restricted free agent a 6 year contract and he was a nobody then so how is mike wallace not worth the money. He'll probably get paid more than welker did but wallace is more established than welker was. Mike Wallace is the perefect fit for the patriots.

 

[tricktak]

People are overrating Brandon Lloyd on this board. The guy has two good seasons after being a turd for six previous seasons and everybody is willing to go all in on him. As I said before make the play for a 26 year old receiver like mil Wallace instead of the 31 year old Brandon Lloyd. The pats need young receivers and have not shown the ability to draft any good ones. The old receiver road is getting old between joey Galloway, toddy holt and Ochoa condo. No more receivers past their prime just because they come cheap. I would rather have Pierre Garcon, who is also 26, to Brandon lloyd.

 

[Lurks_All_Day]

Because Wallace is a RFA and the Pats will have to give up a high draft pick or two to get him while Lloyd is an UFA. Wallace is likely to be tendered so high that he is off the table though. I don't see the Pats giving up a first and a third or a first for Walace. If the Steelers are dumb enough to give Wallace a second round tender, then the Pats should jump on him.

There is always a cost-benefit analysis, regardless of the player.
And, yeah! let's throw in the current team's needs, and cost-benefit against our own!
Love this game, this is what makes the off-season such a blast!

 

[Deus Irae]

This is such a dumb argument, of course you give up a first round pick, are you kidding me? The patriots NEVER use the two first round picks they get and have on more than one occasion traded out of the first round completely. The patriots do not think highly of 1st round picks or even the draft for that matter. Name one receiver better in this draft that can come in and make a difference right away than Mike Wallace. He's only 26 years old so he is well worth the money you pay him and is also the outside the numbers explosive receiver the patriots need. The patriots gave wes welker when he was a restricted free agent a 6 year contract and he was a nobody then so how is mike wallace not worth the money. He'll probably get paid more than welker did but wallace is more established than welker was. Mike Wallace is the perefect fit for the patriots.

1.) I was one of, if not the, first on this site to float the signing of Wallace as a good, if 'dream', scenario, so you're making the mistake of attacking the wrong guy.

2.) It's not just giving up the pick. It's also paying the money. Generally with a pick at the bottom of the first round, you're paying much less than you will for a top end WR, after all. It's certainly a valid point being made by those who've brought it up.

3.) Welker took a much smaller contract than Wallace will demand, so your comparison is a poor one.

4.) I'm not going to get into draft v. FA comparisons, because that's just a waste of time, since the draft offers different risk/reward computations. Wallace was a 3rd round player, so he's a perfect example of the hit/miss nature of the draft. However, since you asked the point about the future, let's look at the immediate past.......

AJ Green's numbers were comparable to Wallace's, albeit slightly lower, and Julio Jones put up excellent rookie numbers, as well.

 

[Lurks_All_Day]

This is such a dumb argument, of course you give up a first round pick, are you kidding me? The patriots NEVER use the two first round picks they get and have on more than one occasion traded out of the first round completely. The patriots do not think highly of 1st round picks or even the draft for that matter. Name one receiver better in this draft that can come in and make a difference right away than Mike Wallace. He's only 26 years old so he is well worth the money you pay him and is also the outside the numbers explosive receiver the patriots need. The patriots gave wes welker when he was a restricted free agent a 6 year contract and he was a nobody then so how is mike wallace not worth the money. He'll probably get paid more than welker did but wallace is more established than welker was. Mike Wallace is the perefect fit for the patriots.

Well said, despite the ever-increasing salaries. Our first order of business? #1 wideout.
No doubt, Welker is our hero, but we need another hero that can stretch the field, and get those tough grabs outside the digits and on long balls.
Moreover, we need a youth movement on the outside and deep, and there are enough proven FA's out there that the front office can make a move. We have 2 firsts. That should provide enough grease if needed.

Is BB ready to make the scary move?

 

[Snake Eyes]

People are overrating Brandon Lloyd on this board. The guy has two good seasons after being a turd for six previous seasons and everybody is willing to go all in on him. As I said before make the play for a 26 year old receiver like mil Wallace instead of the 31 year old Brandon Lloyd. The pats need young receivers and have not shown the ability to draft any good ones. The old receiver road is getting old between joey Galloway, toddy holt and Ochoa condo. No more receivers past their prime just because they come cheap. I would rather have Pierre Garcon, who is also 26, to Brandon lloyd.

Why do I care about how a player had performed as opposed to how he's peforming now? Lloyd is older than Wallace and will be a lot less expensive. Sure, many older receivers havent worked but the young ones they drafted havent worked out either, so why is drafting better than free agency?

Lloyd is very good RIGHT NOW, and he knows the Pats system, how do we know Garcon 1) won't be locked up by the Colts and 2) will understand the Pats system?

 

[Boomer B]

It really comes down to what Belichick is thinking. If Welker wants a lot more then what the Pats are willing to pay, then it wouldn't be a stretch to bring in a high priced WR like Wallace. If Belichick is gonna keep Welker, then I think Lloyd may be the better option 'cause of cost. There is also the possibility of drafting a WR or going for a cheap option like Braylon Edwards.

I still think we need to bring in a FA or 2 on Defence, and if Bill feels the same he will need to have the money to do so.

 

[BradyToAmendola]

I'd rather not sign Mike Wallace and use the pick on a defensive player..and use the cap space to go after an elite defensive player..

 

[BPF]

People are overrating Brandon Lloyd on this board. The guy has two good seasons after being a turd for six previous seasons and everybody is willing to go all in on him. As I said before make the play for a 26 year old receiver like mil Wallace instead of the 31 year old Brandon Lloyd. The pats need young receivers and have not shown the ability to draft any good ones. The old receiver road is getting old between joey Galloway, toddy holt and Ochoa condo. No more receivers past their prime just because they come cheap. I would rather have Pierre Garcon, who is also 26, to Brandon lloyd.

Sure doesn't look like a turd:
'Next Level' stat on big plays - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Most 25-yard pass plays in last 2 seasons (by pass-catchers)
Mike Wallace (Steelers) -- 29
DeSean Jackson (Eagles) -- 26
Brandon Lloyd (Broncos/Rams) -- 26
Larry Fitzgerald (Cardinals) -- 24

Wes Welker, it was noted on the chart, is the Patriots' leader over the last two seasons in that category (with 14).

 

[patsinthesnow]

Brandon Lloyd and Stephen Hill + saving $>Wallace.