Torn between FA WRs Mike Wallace and Brandon Lloyd...

[cmasspatsfan]

I just dont see any way BB gives up a draft pick and signs a WR to a big contract, not gonna happen, Im about 90% sure they resign Welker so the next guy has to be a value signing, Wallace is not, even if they dont sign Welker, Wallace isnt a value signing so I dont see it happening. Maybe they can pull off Welker and Lloyd.

 

[celticboy04]

Greetings,

Cheaper
Wouldn't cost a first round pick

Cannot argue with that.

Given the number of WR who were unable to play in our system, what make you sure Wallace can?

Because IF you were going to give up a #1 pick plus ~$9M you will habe to be sure he will excel in THIS system........

It would be a stretch to sign Welker and Lloyd, but IF you sign Wallace bye bye Welker....

The only reason why I said that is because Wallace is the best deep threat in the game, much better than Lloyd. Also they don't need a guy who gets in the 100 catch range, have that already in Welker. With that being said I would be happy with either one of those guys. I like Lloyd a lot and he would be a huge upgrade over the current second receiver(Branch).


I also think too many people think it is a forgone conclusion that he is coming to New England, especially being that he has not shopped around yet.

Celticboy04

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

LaCanfora predicted earlier today that the main teams to have interest in Wallace will be the Ravens and Patriots.

The Steelers cannot afford to Franchise Wallace and have serious fears they are losing him.

Unless Wallace takes a pay cut which is likely not going to happen considering he is pretty young,he is going elsewhere.

 

[robbomango]

Did BB think Josh would work miracles with the current roster, quickly developing the lower wr depth in time for a competitive 2012 season? Not sure, sounds like a tall order imo.

Josh brought Gaffney and lloyd on board in Denver then brought lloyd to St Luis, If BB trusts Josh why wouldn't he trust his proven prospects?

I can't imagine BB turns his head on a player that publicly raved,on more than 1 occasion, about the great experience had under Josh's system, he's at least going to give it a look.

Also, this is an offensive driven team and under McD I'd expect the horizontal/vertical spread used effectively with true threat's not stone handed decoys.

Current WR's
Welker................122rec..12.9ypc
Branch................51rec....13.8ypc
Ocho..................15rec.....18.4ypc
Edelman..............4rec......8.0ypc
Underwood..........3rec......10ypc
Slater.................1rec......46ypc


I get the money issue and if a Wallace or Lloyd don't come here something will get worked out. I have faith in McD's Wide Receiver Whisperer skills to find someone else.

 

[supafly]

Greetings,


Cannot argue with that.


The only reason why I said that is because Wallace is the best deep threat in the game, much better than Lloyd. Also they don't need a guy who gets in the 100 catch range, have that already in Welker. With that being said I would be happy with either one of those guys. I like Lloyd a lot and he would be a huge upgrade over the current second receiver(Branch).


I also think too many people think it is a forgone conclusion that he is coming to New England, especially being that he has not shopped around yet.

Celticboy04

Wallace may be the best 'speed' threat in the game, but I think the term 'best deep threat' is arguable at best.

Wallace plays a lot of backyard football with Roethlisberger's scrambling abilities, and finds a way to get open in that regard. Once Roethlisberger had to remain a statue due to injury, Wallace's production dropped like you wouldn't even believe. Check the last 7-8 games of the season, it's crazy.

Mike Wallace has not earned the right to be called a top-tier WR in the NFL, at least not through the 2011 season anyway.

Any comparisons to Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald etc are absolutely crazy. Those are the guys who are worth 9-10 million per/ a year....not Mike Wallace.

I would put Wallace's salary worth at somewhere around 7-8 million per/ a year, based on his speed, youth, and potential alone but he is far from a 'sure thing' in the NFL. He certainly still needs to prove himself.

Mike Wallace basically had the same year as Pierre Garcon in 2011. Both had about 70 catches. Garcon had 6 TD's, while Wallace had 8.

Deion Branch is at the opposite end of the salary spectrum, with many posters talking of him being forced into the vet minimum if he wants to stay. Even Branch's output was 51 catches, 700 yds, and 5 TD's--and he is considered 'washed up' in the minds of many posters (not necessarily mine). The difference is production between Branch and Wallace should not call for one taking the vet minimum and one making top-tier WR money at 10 million+. You can argue about Wallace's "potential" but you can't give up a first round pick and a huge long-term contract based on potential alone. In many ways, Wallace is still somewhat of an unknown.

I don't see the NEP taking any kind of risk that will involve Mike Wallace, as high as his ceiling may be. The problem is that we have no idea if he'll ever reach that ceiling. Worse off, we have no idea if he can actually play in this system here in N.England.

 

[ATippett56]

2012 New England Patriots wide receivers:

Wes Welker
Brandon Lloyd
Deion Branch
Julian Edelman
2012 Fourth Round Draft Pick
Matt Slater (primarily special teams)

Aside from possibly drafting a center, depends on whether offensive guard Brian Water retires and center Dan Koppen does not re-sign, the rest of the 2012 NFL Draft picks need to be allocated towards defense.

 

[robbomango]

I posted this in an older thread, it's a side-by-side look at the receiving production compared to GB and NO at the seasons end.

looking at the top 8 teams in the passing game we were very isolated in the top 4(gronk, wes, branch, AH) in comparison to other teams getting the ball from 6-8 players with 25+ receptions.

Below is the NO, NE, GB charts for a look see

 

[supafly]

Did BB think Josh would work miracles with the current roster, quickly developing the lower wr depth in time for a competitive 2012 season? Not sure, sounds like a tall order imo.

Josh brought Gaffney and lloyd on board in Denver then brought lloyd to St Luis, If BB trusts Josh why wouldn't he trust his proven prospects?

I can't imagine BB turns his head on a player that publicly raved,on more than 1 occasion, about the great experience had under Josh's system, he's at least going to give it a look.

Also, this is an offensive driven team and under McD I'd expect the horizontal/vertical spread used effectively with true threat's not stone handed decoys.

Current WR's
Welker................122rec..12.9ypc
Branch................51rec....13.8ypc
Ocho..................15rec.....18.4ypc
Edelman..............4rec......8.0ypc
Underwood..........3rec......10ypc
Slater.................1rec......46ypc


I get the money issue and if a Wallace or Lloyd don't come here something will get worked out. I have faith in McD's Wide Receiver Whisperer skills to find someone else.

I definitely think that an upgrade at the weapons of WR here is almost a given, when you consider JMcD's propensity to sling the ball and his offensive mindset.

I certainly agree with you that BB did not bring him here to work with the current crop, but I tend to think that some of these fantasy guys people are throwing around are a bit far-fetched too.

There are over 600 FA's. There will be opportunities to make improvements in the passing game via some mid-level FA's and cuts too, let's not forget that.

We still have the draft, lower level moves, cuts, etc.

The bottom line is that I certainly agree that the current slate of WR's in not going to get it done. I think if we can get a longer term deal with Wes accomplished, that will change the mindset of potential spending and cost. Let's hope that is what happens.

I think Lloyd is a target for sure. It will remain to be seen how his agent factor plays out though. I think some of the mid-range cost guys like R.Wayne are a distinct possibility too. As of now, we first have to address Welker and be prepared for the likelihood that he costs 9 1/2 million this yr under the cap if no long term deal is reached. With 3/13 coming up quickly, they will need to make some headway or the NEP will probably not make as much noise at the WR position as we have hoped (when you consider that the defensive issues need addressed too like safety, which is a position that will most likely need addressing in FA since the current draft is mud at that position)

 

[ATippett56]

looking at the top 8 teams in the passing game we were very isolated in the top 4(gronk, wes, branch, AH) in comparison to other teams getting the ball from 6-8 players with 25+ receptions.

To this day, I don't seriously believe Chad Ochostinko knows were to properly line up in the New England Patriots offense, let alone the correct routes to run.

 

[Sciz]

When did Hernandez lose two inches?

 

[ATippett56]

When did Hernandez lose two inches?

New England Patriots: Aaron Hernandez

 

[robbomango]

When did Hernandez lose two inches?

2 inches? I thought he's listed 6-2

oh well, I had already converted it to jpg before noticing so he's 6'1 for now:confused2:

EDIT: 6-1 on the pats site and 6-2 on a few others

 

[Sciz]

New England Patriots: Aaron Hernandez

Hmm, they fail. He's officially 6023, and I think common practice is to round up from that 3/8. Definitely shouldn't be listed at 6'1" though!

 

[supafly]

The more I think about it, there's the possibility too that N.England would actually be doing the Steelers a favor by throwing an offer at Mike Wallace.

The numbers used by Jeff Howe in NESN's mailbag were a potential 4 year/ 25 million dollar deal. I tend to think that they may offer him something closer to a 4 year/ 30 million dollar deal, which averages out at 7.5 million per yr. I cannot see the NEP offering anything more, especially at this still unproven time in Wallace's career. There are still unknowns about him, and you cannot begin to think about paying that much money (and a 1st rd pick) based on 'potential ceiling' alone.

If the Steelers come back with the same or similar deal, they may now be able to lock up a potential long term worry for next yr at a very reasonable price..instead of having to deal with Wallace's camp and their probable 9-10 million dollar a year demands over a 5 year deal. The reality is that Wallace will likely want something close to top tier money next yr, or he will no longer be in Pittsburgh. Only time will tell whether or not the Steelers give him that kind of money, especially with Antonio Brown due to hit FA the yr after.

An offer from the NEP could actually do the Steelers a favor in the long run in this instance.

Something to think about.

 

[robbomango]

How much would Eddie Royal go for? He was a productive slot receiver until the John Fox option game arrived.

If branch and or Welker go he'd be a nice addition coupled with a deep threat, probably cheap as well.

Both had success with Josh: Lloyd, Royal

 

[Sciz]

Another thing to keep in mind, the Pats could trade their 1st and 4th for Wallace, similar to what they did with Welker a few years ago. That way, the Steelers get an extra pick and keep Wallace away the Ravens and Bengals, while the Pats can deal with Wallace directly rather than getting into a bidding war against other teams.

 

[Seels]

How much would Eddie Royal go for? He was a productive slot receiver until the John Fox option game arrived.

If branch and or Welker go he'd be a nice addition coupled with a deep threat, probably cheap as well.

Both had success with Josh: Lloyd, Royal

Eddie Royal is a good candidate for worst WR in football. No thanks.

 

[ivanvamp]

Another thing to keep in mind, the Pats could trade their 1st and 4th for Wallace, similar to what they did with Welker a few years ago. That way, the Steelers get an extra pick and keep Wallace away the Ravens and Bengals, while the Pats can deal with Wallace directly rather than getting into a bidding war against other teams.

Wallace is probably worth that.

My big concern is that this offense may be difficult to master; a lot of guys haven't been able to figure it out. We are pretty sure Lloyd gets it, since he has already been successful in it. Doesn't guarantee success, but it does greatly increase the chances.

So Lloyd has terrific skills, is explosive, has a higher likelihood of understanding this offense, and would cost less to acquire.

Wallace may be *better* (and younger...another big point in Wallace's favor), but that's a lot of things in Lloyd's favor.

Given that Brady is no spring chicken anymore, I'd prefer a WR that can jump right in and contribute.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Garcon is on the market...I'd rather have him. This offense doesn't need a 100 catches a year type guy. We just need someone who keeps the defense honest on the deep ball. He's got speed comparable to Wallace; speed is the only thing that draws people to Wallace, and Garcon is a respectable route runner while Wallace is not known for that.

I think people's fear of another Ochocinco is misguided. Chad just doesn't have it physically and especially mentally anymore. It's much less about getting the system, I suspect.

 

[billdog3484]

Yes. Let us know if there's anything else we can help you with....

not as simple as you may think. are we the colts or the patriots. i like winning with defense. we need players that help our defense get off the field.