Tip of the Cap to Caserio

[Box_O_Rocks]

I think there's enough credit to be shared by both Pioli and Caserio.

This! The NEP fans have been blessed since Pirate Bob the Krafty rowed his long boats across Long Island Sound and began systematic plundering and pillaging in Queens. Pity he was forced to pay reparations, but ever since Pirate Bob freed the slave who had been giving the NYC Media the fickle finger of Parcells and made him War Commander, things have gone pretty well for the genteal and pacific peoples of the Nor'east.

Sea Bass, perhaps?

Ah, this brain child apparently doesn't get joint custody, Pioli is only the Godparent as Vollmer wasn't really discovered before the Shrine Game, a week after Pioli was in KC. The Scouts covering this meat market saw this fine specimen and put him on a Scarnecchia shopping list - the rest is yet to be written in history, but Coach Scar is looking smug over by the Bar-B-Q pit.

 

[maverick4]

I think that they still used material compiled by Pioli in this draft

This is irrelevant. Given the exact same Patriots scouting information and picking for the Patriots, it's likely that Caserio/Reese wouldn't make the same decisions/picks as Pioli.

The info itself is important but isn't necessarily the main factor for draft success. The decision maker's values and reasoning are far more important. Look at how quickly Dimitroff or Parcells turned teams around, they didn't need a pre-existing, extensively built scouting system in those teams in order to turn their franchises around quickly.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The discussion here! So utterly pointless...arguing over things like who deserves credit. Credit is intangible; something to argue over. I think we can all agree that Pioli and Belichick set a great foundation; that Caserio came up through that and has what appears a bright future; and that Patriots fans have cause to be as excited about this draft class as any in recent memory (I would argue more than maybe any in the Belichick era, due to the amount of possible impact players).

Perhaps it's a good thing that the argument being had is not whether the Patriots botched the draft, but who is to receive the praise, however worthless at the end of the day, for the haul of quality talent that we can only hope will manifest itself into contributing factors for a championship team this season.

 

[Triumph]

You just ignored that he was director of player personel for more than year because it served your point that Pioli was more important.

You like to play semantics with words and terms to make your point but you ignore facts.

Youre wasting your time and you will never win.

He knows everything. Just ask him.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Guys... Something to remember is that Pioli had a big hand in this draft for the Pats...And I can guarantee you that Pioli used a lot of the knowledge that this scouting staff developed for him to make his picks in KC..

Caserio gets some Kudos, yes, but this was still, primarily, the draft of BB and Pioli..

yup, i heard BB was interested in Tyson Jackson, whom Pioli drafted, and Robert Ayers, who McDaniels drafted.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

yup, i heard BB was interested in Tyson Jackson, whom Pioli drafted, and Robert Ayers, who McDaniels drafted.

While I tend to doubt that Pioli or McDaniels played a key role in this draft class, because by the time they left, most of the field reports would have been barely completed and not a lot of detailed film work nor background checks completed, I do think that drafting players we preliminarily targeted was the key impact those two had on our draft.

The two examples above are excellent points indeed.

If I look at KC's draft, after the Jackson selection, it falls apart fairly quickly and looks putrid. Magee (limited athlete)? Washignton (character issues)?

But if you look at the Denver draft, I see a ton of Pats type players. CB Smith, S MCBath, TE Quinn, S Burton and OG Olsen.

 

[BelichickFan]

If I look at KC's draft, after the Jackson selection, it falls apart fairly quickly and looks putrid. Magee (limited athlete)? Washignton (character issues)?

It will also be interesting to see how Jackson does - while I like him and thought KC would take him, #3 is 4 spots higher than we took Seymour and about 10 spots higher than Warren. Jackson is going to have to be REALLY good to warrant that pick. Not that KC had great trade down options but we all know the financial situation with top five picks.

I've said it before, meaning nothing against Pioli, as time will tell, there was no noticeable difference with him gone. We were moving around the draft board, acquired future picks, took a seemingly safe top pick and some high ceiling shots later and had all players signed before camp. If I didn't know Pioli were gone I would never have had a clue Belichick's right hand man was gone. KC, on the other hand, reached (for a good player) with #1, didn't move around at all and didn't get their #1 pick signed on time. Pioli may do great in KC but from my observations, the Patriots' organization seems to be Belichick with a massive drop to the next guy - with or without Pioli being that next guy.

 

[BionicPatriot]

It will also be interesting to see how Jackson does - while I like him and thought KC would take him, #3 is 4 spots higher than we took Seymour and about 10 spots higher than Warren. Jackson is going to have to be REALLY good to warrant that pick. Not that KC had great trade down options but we all know the financial situation with top five picks.

I've said it before, meaning nothing against Pioli, as time will tell, there was no noticeable difference with him gone. We were moving around the draft board, acquired future picks, took a seemingly safe top pick and some high ceiling shots later and had all players signed before camp. If I didn't know Pioli were gone I would never have had a clue Belichick's right hand man was gone. KC, on the other hand, reached (for a good player) with #1, didn't move around at all and didn't get their #1 pick signed on time. Pioli may do great in KC but from my observations, the Patriots' organization seems to be Belichick with a massive drop to the next guy - with or without Pioli being that next guy.

Maybe he's stick to the Patriot way? While I do agree it's crazy to reach for a guy when you're picking top 5, he probably just stuck to what he know's best. The Pats have never been shy to reach ever, but I don't think any team should picking that high up.

 

[mayoclinic]

Regardless of how exactly the credit is distributed, the FO seems to have done an incredible job with this offseason and draft. Major holes potentially filled in FA/trade at backup QB (Walter), RB (Taylor), WR (Galloway and Lewis), TE (Baker and Smith), DL (resigning Wright), DE/LB (Burgess, Banta-Cain), LB (Lenon, Ninkovich), S (resigning Sanders, McGowan) CB (Bodden and Springs) and ST (Hodel, Ciurciu). Plus a 12 man draft leaving us with 4 1st day picks in 2010 and all 12 (plus UDFA QB ) possibly making the final 53, the PS, or IR:

2A Patrick Chung, S - lock to make the final 53, likely significant playing time
2B Ron Brace, DT/DE - lock to make the final 53, likely key reserve and possible significant playing time
2C Darius Butler, CB - lock to make the final 53, likely key reserve and future starter
2D Sebastian Vollmer, OT - lock to make the final 53, probable #3 OT and future starter
3A Brandon Tate, WR - IR, potential for big role in 2010
3B Tyrone McKenzie, ILB - IR, potential for big role in 2010
4 Rich Ohrnberger, OG - likely to make the final 53, possible replacement for Stephen Neal in 2010
5 Gary Bussey, OT/G - probable cut, possible PS
6A Jake Ingram, LS - potential to make the final 53 as LS
6B Myron Pryor, DT - likely to make the final 53
7A Julius Edelman, QB/WR - likely to make the final 53
7B Darryl Richard, DT - probable cut, possible PS
UDFA Brian Hoyer, QB - probable cut, possible PS

For 2 6th round picks and a 7th to make the final 53 on this team would be unbelievable. It's still very early and there are a lot of "if's" (Pryor and Edelman could stumble, Hodel could beat out Ingram, the cuts could get picked up by other teams, etc.) but right now this looks like the deepest and richest draft in a long time, to go with an amazing pre- and post-draft offseason.