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Tip of the Cap to Caserio

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by tombonneau, Aug 15, 2009.

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  1. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    Yes, yes, I know it's very, very, very early, but please spare me the We-need-three-years-to-properly-evaluate-a-draft routine. Rather than post that kind of reply, instead please make a post on your evaluation and opinion of the 2006 draft (and enjoy the chirping of crickets ;)).

    I just want to say with everyone questioning how the Pats would fare with Pioli, well, early returns say "Quite well, thank you very much."

    The FO looks like they could be 4/4 in round 2 and might even have two very late round steals in Pryor and Edelman. A success by any measure.

    Again, it's way to early to claim much of anything, just wanted to give some props to Caserio for what looks like a more than solid draft class.
  2. QB12

    QB12 Rookie

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    Agreed. And was that Caserio I saw in coach's gear on the sidelines Thursday night, or one of the other young assistants?

    QB12
  3. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Extra amazing when you consider that there are still 3 mid-round picks on crutches!
  4. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    This was a draft where a lot of thought went into the late round

    selections. The Patriots could have both 6th round selections and

    a 7th round selection make the 53 man roster.
  5. livinginthe past

    livinginthe past Rookie

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    I think we really need 3 years to...... :p

    Yes, its looks like a very good draft class at this stage - the fact that these guys are even holding their own at this early stage bodes well for a future that surely includes alot of upside.

    Belichick has been a good drafter in general - of course, later rounds typically struggle to make the roster of a perennial title challenger - some will see that as a failure to properly utilise those later round picks.

    I don't.
  6. BigMike

    BigMike PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What about Floyd Reese? He has a history of great picks....
  7. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Guys... Something to remember is that Pioli had a big hand in this draft for the Pats...And I can guarantee you that Pioli used a lot of the knowledge that this scouting staff developed for him to make his picks in KC..

    Caserio gets some Kudos, yes, but this was still, primarily, the draft of BB and Pioli..
  8. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Out of BB, Pioli, Caserio and Reese, I'd say that Reese had the least influence on who was drafted.
  9. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    See I dont see it as primarily on Pioli because of the way the scouting process works...I give credit to the Scouts and Casserio for being able to do their jobs despite their Boss moving on.

    What and when would Pioli have helped us with this draft???....he never had a chnce in the offseason to do work on our draft...All he did to help this draft was help or lead in the scouting process through the year. he likely had very little to do with who was chosen out of the large pool of talent that he and the scouts kept their eyes on through last year. I am sure he helped narrow the list and focus it through the year.

    Pioli gets credit for laying the foundation and process but he IMO couldn't have had that much to do with the actual players chosen.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
  10. matt9071

    matt9071 Rookie

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    You Make a good point.
  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Point taken that Pioli's operation laid the groundwork with years of scouting -- but to be fair, Caserio was the head of that operation. And given that Pioli left months before the showcase bowls, combine, pro days, etc. the ultimate board and & strategy had to be mapped out by Caserio & Belichick. So I think it's fair to tip the cap significantly in Caserio's direction
  12. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You probably don't realize how your last sentence contradicts your stance.

    First, Caserio had almost nothing to do with the scouting department prior to last year. That was his first year over-seeing it as he'd just taken over from Dimitroff, who had moved on to Atlanta.

    Second, Pioli was here through the entire information gathering process. And its been well documented that the Patriots have their prospects whittled down prior to even the junior declarations. Its just minor tweaking that they do to their lists.

    Lastly, the Pats use the Combine, Pro-Days, and private workouts to tweak their listing..

    So, while you discount the "foundation and processes" as being minor, the reality is that it is those processes and the information gathered that are a majority of the work that goes into deciding who to take. Downplaying that is just silly.
  13. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    This draft is already looking to be better than Pioli's last 4 drafts.
  14. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Caserio was "head" of the scouting for this one year.. Hardly long enough to put his stamp on it.. Not to mention that, according to all the times Pioli talked about the draft process, he stated that the Showcase Bowls, Combine, ProDays, etc, didn't do much to their draft boards. They only tweaked their vertical and horizontal sorts.. Also, Pioli left on January 13th.. The Senior Bowl was held on the January 24th. The East/West Shrine game was held on January 17th. Yes, the combine was in February and the Pro-Days February, March, and April.

    So, I can't agree that the tip of the cap should go to Caserio. He wasn't the head of the department for that long. Pioli, who was his boss and who set up the Department with Dimitroff, had a lot more to do with it than Caserio did.

    Caserio will have much more to do with the 2010 and future drafts.. Then he can get a tip of the cap should they be successful. But all the hard work was done prior to Pioli leaving.
  15. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Why is it not enough time? Dimitroff had an immediate impact in Atlanta. GM's and coaches can make huge impacts in a year. Parcells has done it multiple times.
  16. Jimke

    Jimke Rookie

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    Caserio, Belichick, and others made the decisions when it was time

    to pick. I don't think they picked up the phone to get Pioli's input.
  17. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By coincidence, Tom Dimitroff left on January 13th 2008...and he was named Executive of the Year by his peers, in large part for his handling of the 2008 draft with his new team. Or to put it another way, should we give BB & co. no credit for drafting Tom Brady in 2000?

    I'm not questioning the essential role Pioli played in building the personnel organization that scouted and prepared for the draft. I just suspect that Caserio deserves a bigger slice of the credit (or blame) than you're giving him.
  18. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Exactly. Even with the same draft list or information in front of them, the decisions aren't necessarily the same.

    However, rather than try to give disproportionate credit to Pioli, I'd say that Floyd Reese also had influence/input on this year's crop.
  19. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    I put the last sentance in because Pioli does deserve some credit I am not arguing that.

    I just think he is one man who was overseeing many and the many deserve credit more than him especially when he left before final decisions.

    Notice I put the Scouts ahead of Caserio in my giving credit.
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dimitroff had an "immediate impact" because he was the one buying the groceries and the one providing the information to Pioli/Belichick prior to his leaving. If anything his example supports my stance. It doesn't detract from it. Not to mention that Dimitroff was in that position for how long prior to getting the job in Atlanta?

    Caserio had his position in the personnel department for a year. Prior to that he was helping as a positional coach.

    Comparing Caserio becoming the Director or Player Personnel here to Parcells going into a new organization is butchering it as the GM are two totally different scenarios.

    But I know why you brought it up.. Because its your typical move to try and be contrarian to myself. Per usual though, you fail.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
  21. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No one said otherwise. However, what is being talked about is the IMPORTANCE of the information used to make the decision. Pioli would have had a lot more to do with it than Caserio for this year. Yes, Caserio had some input, but it was Pioli who laid the ground work, the processes, and developed the scouting department into what it is today.
  22. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Dimitroff goes and immediately has success in Atlanta, and people attribute it to him and he wins Executive of the Year for assembling a Falcons defense and offense that has different personnel requirements than that of the Patriots'. Now, you won't give Caserio as much credit for what is shaping up to be a good Patriot draft class? Why aren't you praising Dimitroff's predecessor then, for "laying the groundwork" for Dimitroff's first year with the Falcons? Your words contradict your stance.

    I disagree with you not out of personal spite (like you may possibly act/think?), but because I think you're wrong more than you care to admit. You're arguing against what, 5 people now? True to form, you will probably call everyone here morons for disagreeing with you, and continue digging a deeper hole for yourself.
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2009
  23. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    ...and just 34 years old. :eek:

    I wonder which way Caserio's long-term ambitions lie. With his unusual mix of experience --and the way he keeps popping up on the practice field and along the sidelines -- it's not hard to picture him wanting to ultimately be a head coach who buys the groceries.
  24. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    If you listen to Caserio's press conferences and don't look at the video, he sounds like a carbon copy of Bill Belichick, right down to not just terminology and words, but pitch, tone, and speed. It's pretty funny.
  25. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, he was on the sidelines with a headset on.
  26. farn

    farn Rookie

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    It could be quite the haul if things continue to progress as they have since OTAs. When mentionning the guys on crutches - who knows ? B. Tate could end up being the player people remember when looking back at this draft (I suppose he COULD also be a suped-up C. Jackson, but let's hope not).
  27. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you for the info. As the Director of Pro Personnel he was the one coordinating the scouting/tracking of other teams and of potential free agents amongst other things.. Which would be a good stepping stone to directing the scouting of college players..

    So.. I still don't see how he'd have more influence on this past draft than Pioli..
  28. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

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    If they hit on Tate this could very well be the best class of the bb regime.

    Re: nick vs Scott, obv pioli had some influence, but it want him stockpiling seconds and wasn't him pulling the trigger on the selections. It's just as much (if not more) about the execution than the preparation. After all, what good is scouting and knowing who the best players are if you don't put yourself into position to draft them.
  29. farn

    farn Rookie

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    Could. If all four 2nd rounders live up to their potential - and you consider the value vs salary - it seems like good things could be coming for the next few years.
  30. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    SBB- What crap? Or do you not understand that there is a difference between what the Director of Pro Personnel does what the Director of Player Personnel does?

    The Director of Pro Personnel focuses on scouting other teams, potential free agents, street free agents and the moves that other teams make.

    The Director of Player Personnel focuses scouting college players for the next draft and on doing the contracts for players.

    BTW, I never said that Caserio had NO influence on the draft. I said I don't believe he had as much influence as Pioli did.

    Instead of throwing a tantrum like you did, how about you work on your comprehension of what is being said.
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