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Three most important people in Pats franchise history


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I can't believe how many people are overrating Bill Parcells. That guy hasn't accomplished crap in his career without Bill Belichick at his side. I don't believe he's won two playoff games without BB.

Parcells PUT the pats on the map...Krafty helped keep them in NE.
 
LeKevin Smith
LeKevin Smith
LeKevin Smith

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Sullivan - he started it
Kraft - the best sports owner of all time
Mo Lewis - if it was not for him, Bledsoe would still be QB
 
Even without Sullivan, by this time there'd be a team in the Boston area by now anyway.
 
Billy Sullivan

Bill Belichick

Robert Kraft.
Ditto. Take away either of those guys, you have no chance. If not for Kraft and Sullivan, there's no team. Without BB, we're the Detroit Lions.
 
I guess that explains why Belichick had to fairly clean house to change the culture of entitlement here on arrival, not to mention dig out of a cap mess :rolleyes....

The only things of lasting significance Parcells did for this franchise were take BB back as his DC after he got dumped by Cleveland and teach Kraft what he didn't want to work with in a HC/GM. Tuna didn't shop for the groceries, yet he gets mediot and fan credit for those Greer picks that worked out while the ones that didn't represented his ticket out of town, he didn't respect the role of ownership, he took a HOF RB with him when he left this team in potential shambles after engineering a sleazy backdoor exit out of town in the midst of a trip to the Superbowl, and for good measure he tried to trap Belichick in the Meadowlands to stick it to NE.

Kraft floundered a bit in the aftermath of that ugly exit, but he somehow had the sense recognize that and follow his nagging gut instinct that said this Belichick fellow he used to sit and talk football with when Tuna wouldn't was not only potentially the real deal, he was passionate without being egotistical and he had the courage of his convictions and a vision of a system encompassing what a winning football team and organization should be and he was a perfect fit for their organizational model. Kraft took a lot of heat for what transpired between the time Tuna left and the night we won Superbowl XXXVI, including being lambasted for trading for a failed former HC to be his 3rd HC in 4 seasons.

Then Belichick floundered a bit in the aftermath of his own hire as he struggled to clean up Tuna's mess that had eventually floundered after 3 years under an interim a feel good HC. But he somehow had the incredible good sense just months after arriving to follow a hunch backed up by his QB coach and draft the QB from Michigan to groom behind a face of the franchise QB he had all too easily exposed in the interim. Fate landed that kid on the field probably a season before Belichick could or would have ever been able to (and survived the media storm both that benching and continued suckitude would have ignited), and the kid fortunately not only didn't flounder - he flourished, and made them all look like geniuses in hindsight in just his first year as a starter and Belichick's second year as HC and Kraft's 8th season as an NFL owner .

Having good individual teams or stretches and being a poorly run and at times embarassing franchise are not mutually exclusive. Sullivan did the best he could with limited resources or vision. Kiam did nothing but use the team to sell razors - but at least he sold to Orthwein. Orthwein played the bad cop but in the end he sold to a prince - after kickstarting a marketing transition designed primarily to make his asset more marketable by hiring THE biggest name in coaching at the time.

Kraft is the one who pulled it all together, what each of them had contributed along the way retaining the past as history, succeeding in the present in less than a decade and creating a model franchise that should be competitive for the forseeable future. He gets the owner nod. Belichick is the best HC in the NFL let alone the greatest to ever coach here, and Brady is going to the freakin' HOF with them. Any and everyone else can stand in line for honorable mention.


I agree 100%. Parcells most important contribution was introducing Belichick to Kraft.
 
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The Pats would still be the Pats, good or bad, in another city.

The Pats were around before Kraft, and they'd have been around without Kraft.

Yes - Danny Boy makes a good point - it's wrong to assume that Patriot fans actually WANT to have their team play in New England and have a chance to see them in person or as the featured game on TV.

I guess I'm just a fair weather fan because I'd probably NOT be as big a Patriot fan if they were in St. Louis or some other. So for me, Kraft is an important person - for Danny Boy it doesn't matter if the Patriots move to Los Angeles next year - therefore Kraft is just another owner.

Truth be told, I'm not the biggest Boston Braves fan since they moved to Atlanta either, but I guess I'm the exception, not the rule.
 
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Again...does the question ask for "Three most important people in New England franchise history" or is it "Three most important people in Pats franchise history"?

If we change it to NE history, then I'll change my answer to Bill Parcells, Bill Parcells and Bill Parcells....he made football big in this area....if he wasnt hired, they'b be gone.
 
Nonsense! We weren't the Detriot Lions in 1963, in 1976, in 1985, or in 1996. Belichick wasn't the head coach for any of those teams. He was an assistant for one, and determined the personnel for none. Those were all great teams.

And if Charlie were the head coach instead of bb, we'd still be a great team today.

Ditto. Take away either of those guys, you have no chance. If not for Kraft and Sullivan, there's no team. Without BB, we're the Detroit Lions.
 
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mgteich said:
Nonsense! We weren't the Detriot Lions in 1963, in 1976, in 1985, or in 1996. Belichick wasn't the head coach for any of those teams. He was an assistant for one, and determined the personnel for none. Those were all great teams.


There were many years when even the Detroit Lions weren't the Detroit Lions, apparently. They dominated in the 50's including 3 championships, went to the playoffs twice and won a division in the 80's, and made 6 trips to the playoffs in the 90's.

They had their share of HOF'ers and dominant players and record setters - heck they had the best offense in the league in 1995. Again, having a smattering of great teams succeed over decades of existence doesn't mutually exclude the franchise remaining by and large poorly run one. Just like the Pat's did (win occasionally) yet were (still a laughingstock) prior to the new millineum. You people don't think they weren't still laughing at us when Tuna ran screaming from here babbling about groceries and butinski novice owners on his way out of the Superdome? LOL Or when just three seasons later that same owner who cost us the Tuna traded a first to hire some failed HC he's just a coordinator lunatic who had just resigned his second HC gig on a ****tail napkin? Or when we replaced the guu who had just re-signed to be the highest paid QB in the league with the 199th draft pick from the preceding years draft? They all stopped laughing in February 2002, and they actually started speaking of us in reverent tones after 2003, didn't they?

mgteich said:
And if Charlie were the head coach instead of bb, we'd still be a great team today.

Bunk.

Someone said it earlier in this thread - we've become a spoiled and unappreciative fan base no longer in touch with our roots or NFL reality, who takes what Kraft and Belichick and Brady have delivered to us for granted as some show of misguided bravado. We were great before 'em and we'll be great after 'em. Dream on. If we are able to maintain consistent competitiveness in their wake it will only be as a result of the foundation they laid, not the one laid by their predecessors. That took 40 years to overcome.
 
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I can't believe how many people are overrating Bill Parcells. That guy hasn't accomplished crap in his career without Bill Belichick at his side. I don't believe he's won two playoff games without BB.

actually, i dont believe he has won any without Belichick. Belichick was there with the Giants, Pacells made the playoffs with NE in 1994 but lost in the first round, Belichick was there in 1996, was there with the Jets the whole time, and Dallas never won a playoff game under Parcells.

that being said, had Parcells not brought his staff with him to NE Kraft never would have come to known Belichick, so this era would not have happened. Parcells did bring a credibility to the franhise that it never had before.
 
LeKevin Smith
LeKevin Smith
LeKevin Smith

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Your first two picks are brilliant. But your third pick? You're LeNuts.
 
Important doesn't mean the best or the most positive. That is why Victor Kiam has to be mentioned.

If he hadn't been the worst owner in NFL history we wouldn't be where we are today.
 
Important doesn't mean the best or the most positive. That is why Victor Kiam has to be mentioned.

If he hadn't been the worst owner in NFL history we wouldn't be where we are today.

oh no. Not the "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" argument.
 
The Pats were around before Kraft, and they'd have been around without Kraft.

Wrong Danny Boy - had Kraft taken the large check James Orthwein, ST Louis & A. Busch was waving in front of him - this team would be known as the St Louis Patriots.

Instead, Kraft bought the club for a record (at the time) amount of money paid for an NFL franchise, against all of the advice that his financial people were telling him.

Furthermore, had he not had the foresight to have purchased the stadium a few years earlier, Orthwein would not have had to go through Kraft to get the team moved.....read your history book please.

Without Kraft, there would not be a team known as the New England Patriots - of course he is one of the top three - I actually think he is #1 or at least tied with Billy Sullivan.
 
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