Three most important people in Pats franchise history

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Kraft
Belichick
Brady

Not to take anything away from personal favorite lunch-pail players like Hog, Grogan (toughest QB I've seen and the only one I can recall who wore a LB's neck roll), Haynes, Rodney, Bruschi, Sey and Troy, but disturb the improbable and in part accidental congress of the aforementioned trinity, and this franchise is a perennial playoff contender rather than the decade's dynasty.

 

[godef]

No Sullivan no Patriots. Guy was a lame owner but he did start it all.

Somebody had to start the Patriots, so Sullivan was important in that sense, but if it weren't for Kraft-Belichick-Brady bringing three Super Bowls, would anybody even be asking this question?

 

[Danny Boy®]

Wrong Danny Boy - had Kraft taken the large check James Orthwein, ST Louis & A. Busch was waving in front of him - this team would be known as the St Louis Patriots.

Instead, Kraft bought the club for a record (at the time) amount of money paid for an NFL franchise, against all of the advice that his financial people were telling him.

Furthermore, had he not had the foresight to have purchased the stadium a few years earlier, Orthwein would not have had to go through Kraft to get the team moved.....read your history book please.

Without Kraft, there would not be a team known as the New England Patriots - of course he is one of the top three - I actually think he is #1 or at least tied with Billy Sullivan.

So the Pats would not be an NFL team? They were around before Kraft, they'd have been around after Kraft....maybe not NE Patriots, but the Patriots.

 

[QuiGon]

And it wouldve folded had Kraft not come around?

Folded..? No. Moved to St. Louis..? Yes. So I consider the person responsible for keeping the Patriots in New England to be a pretty darn important fella...

Ya know, you never really have explained to anyone why you have such a burr up your arse against Kraft... so tell tell...

 

[QuiGon]

Parcells PUT the pats on the map...Krafty helped keep them in NE.

I don't buy that... you're giving too much credit to Parcells... he didn't do anything with this franchise that hadn't already been done before...

 

[QuiGon]

actually, i dont believe he has won any without Belichick. Belichick was there with the Giants, Pacells made the playoffs with NE in 1994 but lost in the first round, Belichick was there in 1996, was there with the Jets the whole time, and Dallas never won a playoff game under Parcells.

I believe his very first year with the Giants, he won a Wild Card game and that that was before Belichick came aboard.

that being said, had Parcells not brought his staff with him to NE Kraft never would have come to known Belichick, so this era would not have happened.

Why so sure of that...? There's no way to know what would have happened if Parcells never came here but it isn't exactly out of the realm of possibility that Kraft would have given the guy who used to coach in Cleveland and got fired a 2nd chance.

Besides... this team became championship caliber the day Tom Brady took over, not the day Bill Belichick arrived.

 

[Danny Boy®]

I don't buy that... you're giving too much credit to Parcells... he didn't do anything with this franchise that hadn't already been done before...

The stadium was empty the year before Parcells...it was full the following year, and has been full ever since.

 

[Danny Boy®]

Folded..? No. Moved to St. Louis..? Yes. So I consider the person responsible for keeping the Patriots in New England to be a pretty darn important fella...

Again, this isnt a thread on New England...its a thread on the Pats.

 

[PatsSteve1]

I have to go with Tuna for one. He is more responsible for turning this team around than anyone else. The attitude he brought began the rise of this team.

* Chuck Fairbanks brought an attitude and credibilty to the Patriots, too until he disapeared in the night. And I credit that to the Sullivans. But I wouldn't make him one of the 3. I'd go with BB/Kraft/Brady. If we made Billy Sullivan one, then if this question were asked about any MLB, NBA, NHL or NFL team would the 1st owner have to be 1 of the 3?

 

[mb6592]

Again, this isnt a thread on New England...its a thread on the Pats.

You're being silly. Its the Pats in the context of their hx in New England. If the Patriots had moved to California 30 years ago, and a new team came or formed in the Boston/New England area we'd be talking about that new team. Heck, if the Pats had moved to St. Louis and a new team came to this area a couple of years later I would be a fan of that new team as I'm sure many others would (it would be a large majority if the old team was not able to retain the Pats name and the new team adopted it - like the Ravens/Browns deal - my guess is that most old Browns fans are new Browns fans now and not Raven fans).

 

[PatsSteve1]

my guess is that most old Browns fans are new Browns fans now and not Raven fans).[/QUOTE]

* Every 'old' Browns fan I know hates the Ravens. And if you want to get on thier nerves tell them thier team is in Baltimore - Had the "Patriots" moved to another city the new team would have been the New England Revolution-

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Billy Sullivan, without whom there is no team.

Bob Kraft, without whom they'd be in St Louis.

Bill Belichik, without whom they'd be just another team.

 

[fgssand]

So the Pats would not be an NFL team? They were around before Kraft, they'd have been around after Kraft....maybe not NE Patriots, but the Patriots.

So, you think it would have been the St Louis Patriots...no way, the name would have stayed here and the team formally known as the New England Patriots would be now playing in St Louis. St Louis had plans in the works to change the name, remember, they thought they had this team, Orthwein was within hours of coming through.

Without Kraft, there would not be a team playing in New England and had Kraft sold, the Patriot name would have changed.

Do you really think another NFL franchise would have come here?? Who the hell would have laid out the cash to bring a new team here??

Do you really think Boston would figure out how to build a stadium? Hah...never, ever, never.

Can't you just imagine this area coming up with the cash to attract an NFL franchise and give the kind of sweetheart deal to the NFL and the new owner?

LA cannot get it done, and there isn't a chance Boston would.

Sorry - without Robert Kraft, there would not be a team known as the Patriots - unless you are talking about the Somerset Patriots, they are coached by Sparky Lyle and the are located in NJ and they play baseball.\\

 

[TommyD4207]

Sullivan
Kraft
Parcells


Sullivan, begat the Pats
Kraft, kept them in Foxboro and hired...
Parcells, who begat Belichick.

 

[RayClay]

Sullivan
Kraft
Parcells


Sullivan, begat the Pats
Kraft, kept them in Foxboro and hired...
Parcells, who begat Belichick.

Orthwein, I believe.

 

[Wotan_the_Wanderer]

Sullivan, begat the Pats
Kraft, kept them in Foxboro and hired...
Parcells, who begat Belichick.

And He completeth by the seventh day His work which He hath made, saweth that His creation was good, ceaseth by the seventh day from all His work which He hath made, layeth and knew the she creature who in forty days begat the man-child Brady.

 

[PromisedLand]

James Orthwein would be on my list. He easily could have moved the struggling franchise with a joke for a stadium to his home town St. Louis before they got the Rams. Instead he brought in Tuna and eventually sold the team to a business man with local interests. The rest is history.

Are you serious? Orthwein fully intended to move the team to Saint Lou. The only reason he didn't is that Bob Kraft owned Foxboro Stadium and refused to let the team out of its lease agreement, even turning down a $75M buyout offer from Orthwein.

(Kraft has said when he made the decision to refuse the buyout, he turned to wife Myra and said "for the first time in my life I just made a business decision with my heart instead of my head.")

 

[PromisedLand]

Gotta say I don't see the logic in that statement...

Without Sullivan, there is no Brady, Belichick or Kraft (at least, not here in New England)... as much as I love Brady, who is #3 on my list, the franchise would still exist if he never came around.

By that logic, the most important person in Patriots history would be Lamar Hunt, without whom there would have been no American Football League and no franchise for Billy Sullivan to buy.

 

[PromisedLand]

Let's look at the significant contributors to the franchise...

1. Billy Sullivan - bought the team; without Billy there's no NE Patriots
2. James Orthwein - contributed by NOT moving the team to St Louis AND by hiring the Tuner, making the team marketable to a new owner.
3. Bill Parcells - The Tuna did turn around a perennial doormat and got the NE Patriots featured in the national media... the traitorous bastid.
4. Bob Kraft - learning on the job, he established a meritorious culture of excellence, professionalism, made Patriots games family friendly, and kept the Pats in MA away from that faux NE state CT, all while making the better part of a billion dollars doing it.
5. Bill B - Established a professional, winning culture and along the way won three (3) SuperBowls
6. Tom Brady - took over from dilletant Drew Bledsoe and took a previously 5-13 team whose HC was about to come under intense fire from Boston mediots to the SuperBowl, won it against all odds and repeated the achievement twice more.

As someone who suffered through all the long decades of losing, I appreciate the Kraft/BB/Brady triumverite the most.

You too need to study your Patriots history. See my previous post (2 or 3 back) on why Orthwein does NOT belong on this list.

 

[Wretch]

I may have missed it but can't a good arguement be made for Mo Lewis?