Thoughts on Ras-I Dowling and the secondary?

[The Boomer]

The thing with Dowling is, he already knows the fundamentals of BB's defense, having starred under Al Groh in college. His college D coordinator gushed about how well he knew the system. That, combined with his obvious athleticism, allows him to play with more confidence than the average rookie.

Dowling was the recognized stud in a barely average Cavalier defense while he played at UVA. Chase Minnifield (Frank's son) in his last year there now is the next secondary star originally recruited and trained by the now gone Groh. Ras-I has barely scratched the surface of what he will do as a pro. He was seriously injured for the first time only last season and, as a result, dropped from a likely top 10 to top 15 pick in a strong draft to the top of the second round. In the aftermath of the astute McCourty pick, Belichick might have drafted two potential all pro corners who could lockdown the secondary for the better part of the next decade. You can't predict anything from only one game as a professional but if you were paying attention during Dowling's career at UVA it's not as much of a stretch to project how he will turn out.

 

[satz]

Are you serious? First of all, Ras-I had many matchups against Marshall. Secondly, Bess isn't a good receiver? Ras-I Dowling was the best defender in the game last night. That's not hyperbole. He was PAINTED on his man all night.

I am talking about the other receiver he was working on. You do not acknowledge that the goal line throws in the redzone was to harline and he never turned back. He just covered the wr with his size,even up and down the sideline his size helped. A good qb and wr will exploit him.

 

[The-Hooded-One]

I am talking about the other receiver he was working on. You do not acknowledge that the goal line throws in the redzone was to harline and he never turned back. He just covered the wr with his size,even up and down the sideline his size helped. A good qb and wr will exploit him.

His size is part of what makes him good, and he's not going to lose his size. But size alone doesn't cover anybody. He's also fast and physical. He was right on his man all night, not allowing them any space. Yeah, he was on Hartline on that fade and all over him, but he also lined up against Marshall on the goalline and jammed him good. You're just being picky for the sake of picky.

 

[ropese]

Now 2 (Bodden & Barrett) out of our key contributors in the secondary are wearing hand casts.

 

[EJ Blitz]

I just finished watching the game. Dowling looked good at the goal line, but earlier in the game, when the dolphins were still in it, it looked like he couldn't get off blocks to me, it looks like he was getting trapped out of a lot of plays and they gained good yardage because of it.

 

[extmenace]

Didn't read all the posts but from the first and second pages I think a lot of people were a little blinded by the win. Mccourty didn't have his best game? He had a horrible game. Read this today:

Mccourty stats against the phins:

Thrown at 15 times, 9 receptions allowed, 60% completion allowed, 151 yards allowed, 16.8 avg yards per reception, 61 YAC allowed, 94.0 QB rating against.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Didn't read all the posts but from the first and second pages I think a lot of people were a little blinded by the win. Mccourty didn't have his best game? He had a horrible game. Read this today:

Mccourty stats against the phins:

Thrown at 15 times, 9 receptions allowed, 60% completion allowed, 151 yards allowed, 16.8 avg yards per reception, 61 YAC allowed, 94.0 QB rating against.

So this is what you decide to use your first post for? I find this very strange and really wonder about your motive.

Now, that is a stupid Stat. So many things wrong with it. Not going to bother with this, someone silly guy sitting in their moms basement writes some stats and you take it as gospel truth.

 

[extmenace]

So this is what you decide to use your first post for? I find this very strange and really wonder about your motive.

Now, that is a stupid Stat. So many things wrong with it. Not going to bother with this, someone silly guy sitting in their moms basement writes some stats and you take it as gospel truth.

No motive at all...the source is a little more than a "silly guy sitting in their moms basement."

A closer look at Devin McCourty and the Patriots' secondary, the 3rd-down defense and Albert Haynesworth's solid night against Miami | masslive.com

Topic is about the secondary....didn't see anyone post about how bad Mccourty was.

Someone with a higher post count should post this article as a new thread....

 

[supafly]

So this is what you decide to use your first post for? I find this very strange and really wonder about your motive.

Now, that is a stupid Stat. So many things wrong with it. Not going to bother with this, someone silly guy sitting in their moms basement writes some stats and you take it as gospel truth.

I don't know if it's really a 'silly' stat vuudu, not to sound negative.

I love DMcC as much as anyone, but he did not have anything close to a good game, let's be honest. Yes Marshall is known for being a pretty good WR, but in that cell of the argument, McCourty also allowed Marshall to have a top 5 all time yardage performance against him. Marshall should be doing that to the SF's and Seattle's of the league--not against our pro bowl CB.

One good thing is that McCourty seemed to battle for the ball, and he never really seems out of place, like many of our recently departed CB's always were. I expect, like everyone else that he will improve in the nx game, and that he will go right back to looking like himself again.

Didn't read all the posts but from the first and second pages I think a lot of people were a little blinded by the win. Mccourty didn't have his best game? He had a horrible game. Read this today:

Mccourty stats against the phins:

Thrown at 15 times, 9 receptions allowed, 60% completion allowed, 151 yards allowed, 16.8 avg yards per reception, 61 YAC allowed, 94.0 QB rating against.

When you factor in 2 credited drops that Marshall officially had, and take into account the fact that one of Henne's official targets to him was a ball throw about 5 yrds over his head, it makes it look ever worse.

I have no problem with you pointing out the stats, from an objective point of view. The only problem is that your stats are wrong--although the completion rate will likely not be affected much. Your yardage total is wrong. Your targets are wrong. Your average is wrong. However, your completion rate will remain basically unchanged, and your general point is certainly correct. I am not trying to be an @ss, I am just suggesting that you use another site for your stats, as the one you are using is way off on just about everything. Like I said, I do agree with your point, and the 'real' numbers back that up too just the same.

Marshall was targeted 13 times, with 2 official drops. That (for practical purposes) takes the total down to 11, where he had 7 receptions for 139 yards. The big problem is that it came out to be a 20 yd average per catch, and the long was 'only' 31, meaning that the average was pretty much right on with his..well..average catch. Giving up 20 yards per catch and allowing your assignment to achieve 6 first downs on 7 receptions on 11 targets (including his credited 2 drops) is pretty pathetic. As I pointed out, it enabled Marshall, who has a ton of huge games under his belt in this league, to have a top 5 yardage output. It also does not bode well for McCourty in the sense that he made approx. 20% of last yr's tackles in one game, meaning that he was consistantly chasing down his assignment.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MarsBr00.htm

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9705/brandon-marshall

Some of DMcC's positives were that he was constantly around the ball, which is excellent. He also was credited with 2 breakups, and made a very nice play to save a potential TD when the game was still well within reach. I assume that he will be fine, and just had a bad game. Hopefully it does not turn into a trend, as he will have to cover some pretty big bodies again this weekend.

 

[ay-yo]

I think I also saw more pressure from blitzing (hard to quantify) which is really what we want to see because it means the new set of corners, McC, Dowling and Bodden are able to be left on their own more in order to blitz, and more importantly blitz heavily.
Sending 5 is a "we can't cover to well" blitz. Sending the house means confidence in the corners.

This is an important point that is hardly discussed. Having Revis and Cro allows Rex to send a lot of guys. With the improved talent at CB we can open up the defensive playbook a bit.

Related but a bit OT: with Nnamdi, Samuels and DRC Jim Johnson, who loves to blitz, must be drooling. This is what scares me about the Eagles.

 

[borg]

Give this group time. New bodies all over the secondary....no game film to plan vs Dolphins....crazy athletic catches on the sideline by Marshall. The secondary gelled in the back half of the season, leading the league in picks with numerous TD returns....and on paper, this group is better.
Also, consider that most of the damage was done on 1st and second down when the D is concentrating on the run.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Someone with a higher post count should post this article as a new thread....

Then why not use your other account?

 

[extmenace]

I don't know if it's really a 'silly' stat vuudu, not to sound negative.

I love DMcC as much as anyone, but he did not have anything close to a good game, let's be honest. Yes Marshall is known for being a pretty good WR, but in that cell of the argument, McCourty also allowed Marshall to have a top 5 all time yardage performance against him. Marshall should be doing that to the SF's and Seattle's of the league--not against our pro bowl CB.

One good thing is that McCourty seemed to battle for the ball, and he never really seems out of place, like many of our recently departed CB's always were. I expect, like everyone else that he will improve in the nx game, and that he will go right back to looking like himself again.



When you factor in 2 credited drops that Marshall officially had, and take into account the fact that one of Henne's official targets to him was a ball throw about 5 yrds over his head, it makes it look ever worse.

I have no problem with you pointing out the stats, from an objective point of view. The only problem is that your stats are wrong--although the completion rate will likely not be affected much. Your yardage total is wrong. Your targets are wrong. Your average is wrong. However, your completion rate will remain basically unchanged, and your general point is certainly correct. I am not trying to be an @ss, I am just suggesting that you use another site for your stats, as the one you are using is way off on just about everything. Like I said, I do agree with your point, and the 'real' numbers back that up too just the same.

Marshall was targeted 13 times, with 2 official drops. That (for practical purposes) takes the total down to 11, where he had 7 receptions for 139 yards. The big problem is that it came out to be a 20 yd average per catch, and the long was 'only' 31, meaning that the average was pretty much right on with his..well..average catch. Giving up 20 yards per catch and allowing your assignment to achieve 6 first downs on 7 receptions on 11 targets (including his credited 2 drops) is pretty pathetic. As I pointed out, it enabled Marshall, who has a ton of huge games under his belt in this league, to have a top 5 yardage output. It also does not bode well for McCourty in the sense that he made approx. 20% of last yr's tackles in one game, meaning that he was consistantly chasing down his assignment.

Brandon Marshall NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

Brandon Marshall Stats - Miami Dolphins - ESPN

Some of DMcC's positives were that he was constantly around the ball, which is excellent. He also was credited with 2 breakups, and made a very nice play to save a potential TD when the game was still well within reach. I assume that he will be fine, and just had a bad game. Hopefully it does not turn into a trend, as he will have to cover some pretty big bodies again this weekend.

Nice post, But I believe those stats were correct. From what I just read, you are only counting the targets brandon marshall received. Marshall had catches against other CBs too. McCourty was not responsible for all of marshalls catches. Pretty sure I saw bess get a catch against mccourty, and marshall got at least 2 catches against some of the other CBs but the fact of the matter doesn't change. He didn't have a good game. Mccourty had a good rookie season, but for his sake, I would hope he isn't another cromartie type of guy. Big rookie season, expectations of being an elite player, ultimately turns into an ok #2 corner. Cromartie is pretty good, but a lot of people thought he'd be a lot better at this point in his carer.

 

[The Scrizz]

So are those stats based on what Marshall did and then being applied to McCourty? Because Dowling covered Marshall multiple times and that first (non)catch of the game was not on McCourty's side so you can't count everything that Marshall did against McCourty.

 

[extmenace]

Then why not use your other account?

This is my only account. Dont shoot the messenger. It was only one bad game against the dolphins...I doubt he'll be responsible for close to 38% - 40% percent of a teams total passing yards in a game again...

 

[extmenace]

So are those stats based on what Marshall did and then being applied to McCourty? Because Dowling covered Marshall multiple times and that first (non)catch of the game was not on McCourty's side so you can't count everything that Marshall did against McCourty.

Those stats were counted on the catches he let up total, to all the dolphin WRers. Brandon Marshalls total yards have nothing to do with the amount of receptions and yards Mccourty allowed in the game. Of course Marshall had catches against other players, and of course other dolphin WRers had catches against mccourty. I was only pointing out that DOLPHIN WRers had 151 yards against him on monday night.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Give this group time. New bodies all over the secondary....no game film to plan vs Dolphins....crazy athletic catches on the sideline by Marshall. The secondary gelled in the back half of the season, leading the league in picks with numerous TD returns....and on paper, this group is better.
Also, consider that most of the damage was done on 1st and second down when the D is concentrating on the run.

I agree. Plus they were very vanilla in the coverage with little disguises. Last year with the same type coverages, Fitspatrick lit us up like a pinball machine as well.

The second half of the season is where we start to get more exotic in the coverages.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Outside of that first drive, I thought they did okay......... particularly considering the lack of pressure we had up front. Gave up lots of yards, but all and all, not terrible. Ras-I did real well as a rook. McCourt looked a little rusty.

People need to go back and watch this game. The pressure might not have been consistant, but we got to Hanne a fair amount. I actualy thought the pressure was pretty darn good and that Hanne just handled it very well. We had 4 sacks and close to 20 pressures.

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

This is an important point that is hardly discussed. Having Revis and Cro allows Rex to send a lot of guys. With the improved talent at CB we can open up the defensive playbook a bit.

Related but a bit OT: with Nnamdi, Samuels and DRC Jim Johnson, who loves to blitz, must be drooling. This is what scares me about the Eagles.

You make a valid point about the freedom to blitz man to man, press corners give a defense. The Eagles will definitely continue to blitz the house as they have in the past, however Jim Johnson has been dead for over a year now, and Sean McDermott is the DC for Philly--just clarifying. It would be great to see McCourty and Dowling develop into that kind of duo, giving the Pats the ability to leave them in coverage a little more often. The selection of Dowling had me legitimately excited, and he's off to a good start!

 

[The Scrizz]

I agree. Plus they were very vanilla in the coverage with little disguises. Last year with the same type coverages, Fitspatrick lit us up like a pinball machine as well.

The second half of the season is where we start to get more exotic in the coverages.

There was a lot of talk when the lockout ended about teams having to dumb down the playbook because they wouldn't have time to install everything they like to do.

Passing yards were way up all over the league. Factor?