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The Sky is Not Falling

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mayoclinic, Dec 11, 2012.

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  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pats are 10-3. They won the AFC East after 12 games. They're on track for a bye, and possibly their third #1 seed in a row. They have scored 97 points more than any other team in the NFL through 13 games. They outscored their opponents by 198 points (over 15 PPG), over 5PPG more than any other team in the NFL. They just annihilated a very good 10-1 Texans team in one of the most complete performances we've seen in years. And yet we've heard the following this season:

    Now I'm a "glass half full" kind of guy (or maybe more). And I understand that there needs to be an allowance for difference styles. But perhaps people overreacted a little bit, particularly given the sustained record of excellence that we've been privileged to witness under the Kraft-Belichick-Brady regime: the greatest example of sustained excellences since the 49ers teams of the 1980s-1990s, which occurred before free agency and the salary cap.

    We may lose to SF next week. We may not win the SB this year. We may flame out in our first playoff game. But whatever happens, this team and this organization deserves more respect than it got from us earlier this year, IMHO. It's given better to us than we gave to it. And I'm not talking about constructive criticism, which is always appropriate.

    We're the best *****ing team in the NFL, and the best organization in the NFL over the past 12 years. The team comes out and gives its all every week, and every week other teams prepare for us as though it is their Super Bowl. As Brady says, it's not easy to win a game, and any win is a win. But this year we have heard posters argue that this team is "garbage", "lethargic", "pathetic", "mediocre", worthy of being booed. So egregious that it makes even the bottom-feeding teams of the Sullivan days pale in comparison. Not to mention the usual posts that BB has lost his mojo and needs Viagra.

    Imagine if we lived in Kansas City.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  2. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you're going to identify one poster you probably should have identified all the quotes. ;)
  3. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My apologies, especially to the poster. That was on oversight. I intended to delete all identies - my intent was not to single out individuals. There were a lot of quotes. It's been fixed for now.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  4. Gumby

    Gumby Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    Don't know about anybody else but my quote was from the first jester game which seems like eons ago now.

    it was a snapshot of a moment in time. And if I went back and watched that game again I would probably say the same thing again (particularly if I had as many drinks as I did when I posted that). They played that game with completely inconsistent effort.

    MAYO,
    not sure if all the other posters comments are from the same or even earlier; or more recent; but taking comments like those out of context and posting immediately following a BIG STATEMENT GAME like yesterday where they played with purpose and authority is a bit contrived on your part.

    Not sure what your point is in doing it.

    Just because we live in an era of excellence on the part of the Pats; does that mean we cant comment or complain about when the performance falls BELOW THE SEASON AVERAGE (let alone well below the 'ERA average')
  5. PatsWickedPissah

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    You just want credit for your quotes Mo
  6. pwes

    pwes Rookie

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    How long ago did these people make these statements and were they after losses? I dont really think you can judge the kneejerk reactions of these people if that is the case. Also at the beginning of the season the Pats DID have a hard time closing out games
  7. BSR

    BSR Rookie

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    This fan base is largely regarded as one of the whiniest in the league largely because of kneejerk reactions like those quoted above. Sometimes pointing this out to people gets them to think before doing it the next time.
  8. BlueThunder

    BlueThunder Rookie

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    This team has evolved and is growing together as a unit. Those comments were probably true at that moment in time. The young kids (Wilson,Jones,Hightower,Dennard) are growing up and being molded into the Patriot model. Talib is still learning the defense.

    Can you imagine how good this team could be with a few weaknesses shored up next year ? :eek:
  9. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My point is the following:

    1. We are privileged to be fans of the one of the greatest NFL franchises in history. We're witnessing an almost unparalleled run of sustained excellence under conditions that were unknown to previous regimes that had similar traditions (yearly roster turnover due to free agency and salary cap). We're the envy of just about every other team in the NFL.

    2. In spite of that, there has been a tremendous amount of whining and bashing this season, beyond constructive criticism. I understand that people get frustrated when the team doesn't play well, and a certain amount of gnashing of teeth is reasonable. I understand that wanting the team to do better is reasonable. I understand that it's a message board, and expressing an opinion is reasonable. But there's been a lot of loading up on this team at times. Given their track record of sustained success, that didn't seem warranted.

    I think that the next time we see the team struggle, we might want to temper our despair or frustration just a little bit. It's fine to say "I'm glad we won, but this wasn't our finest hour". It's another thing to say "this win feels worse than a loss", or to boo the team when they are winning.

    I'm not saying that we should all hold hands and go kumbaya all the time. That would be boring, and not very useful. And I'm not saying the team is above criticism, or even reproach at times. But some of the knee-jerk reactions seem to me to have crossed a line at times. If you want "garbage", "pathetic" and the likes, go to Jacksonville or Kansas City. Or New York.

    Since you referenced your own post, you claim to have been a Pats fan for 40 years, and said in that October post that the team that played against the Jets was "not a Pats team you recognize". Really? The team that beat the Jets 29-26 in OT was worse than anything the Pats sent out on the field in the Sullivan or Kiam years, when they were the worst team in the NFL several years? When we were the laughing stock of the league? We were that bad? Or have you just become so spoiled by our success that you were pouting over a game in which the team was struggling through it's early season problems to find it's rhythm, something that has happened routinely the past few years before the team went on a second half tear to end up with the #1 seed in the AFC?

    The season is an evolution. It's all about "climbing the mountain", as BB calls it. They won't all be 42-14 shellackings of 10-1 teams. There will be losses and ugly wins. It's a growth process. BB is the best in the business at pacing the team and using the schedule to grow the team. The fan base cries bloody murder every time the team falls short of perfection. And sometimes it has gotten ugly this season. What we have isn't ugly. It's beautiful.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  10. Rob0729

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    I know I always get slammed for being a major homer for this, but I never get upset about early season struggles. I have complete faith in Belichick fixing the problems or at least minimizing them.

    I know this is a bit off topic, but when did "In Bill We Trust" become blind homerism. In fact, when did Belichick ever completely blow a season. Since 2001, his worst years have been years that he lost the AFC East by the third or fourth tiebreaker (and one was with Cassel at QB).

    Sorry to go off topic there. But until Belichick proves the "In Bill We Trust" motto is a proven wrong, people should relax and not go overboard with the Chicken Little stuff early in the season.
  11. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    The thing that gets me is how there's still a faction of the fanbase that is so quick to jump on Belichick or Brady for any possible negative - on the field, off the field, whatever. Brady wears this, Belichick says that. Brady can't throw the deep ball, Belichick lost his magic. Whatever.

    At this point, what the two of these guys have accomplished together, the resume they piled up, the entertainment they have provided us with, and the sports-happiness they have delivered is bordering on absurd. It's an embarrassment of riches, and to not have some general gratitude towards them makes me question those fans.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Also, just to clarify. To anyone I quoted: my intention was not to single out you, or to create a divide between the "half full" and "half empty" crowd. It's human to get frustrated at time, and I certainly do. It's healthy to criticize the team when it doesn't do well. Many of the criticisms voiced were justified - in some cases, it may be more the manner in which they were voiced than the content of the criticism.

    My point is that we should be pretty confident in the talent base of our team, and in the judgment of our coaching staff and organization. They won't win every game, and there's no guarantee they will win the Super Bowl. But I think we can generally trust them to fix problems over the course of a season. They know what they're doing. And the 2009 team was the only team I've seen in the BB era that could be criticized for a lack of effort, and BB took that team to the woodshed as soon as the season was over. Whether it plays badly or well, this team will give a good effort. It's not easy to go out there week after week and bring your A game - no one else does as good a job of it as we do.
  13. PatsWickedPissah

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    I didn't say it here, but I was at the Jets game in Gillette and my private thoughts when McCourty fumbled the KO in the last minute leading to the tie were that the 2012 Patriots sucked. Sucked. Defense couldn't stop anyone (Sanchez fer crikey!) and the vaunted offense was MIA when just one 1st down was needed to run out the clock. How wrong I was. But I have learned to keep my negative thoughts of the moment private for furthur reconsideration.
  14. ay-yo

    ay-yo Rookie

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    The funny part is all these cynics consider themselves realists.

    The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. ;)
  15. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's easy to do.

    For the record, I went ballistic in a PM to OTG in 2011 when the Pats cut Albert Haynesworth, of all people, coming off of back to back losses to the Steelers and Giants. I was so pissed at BB. I can't remember what I said exactly, but it was not complimentary. I had great hopes for what the Pats could do with 2 talented Grizzlies like Wilfork and Haynesworth together, and it was very disappointing to me when that didn't work out, and I let it get to me. But of course, BB was 100% correct, Haynesworth was turd, and by cutting him BB sent a message to the rest of the team, who pulled together as a team, gave a full effort, and didn't lose another game until the SB. In retrospect it was ludicrous. So I'm not claiming to be any "better" than anyone else.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  16. Deus Irae

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    The team started off at 3-3 and was looking very suspect on defense, to put it mildly. Yes, people went over the top, but it's no different than what the homers do when the team is on a roll. Look at the posts today. You'd think this team was 13-0 and had never won a game by fewer than 50 points.

    Homers only see rainbows. Chicken Littles only see storm clouds. Most people see both. It is what it is.
  17. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jesus Christ.

    Can't you people just enjoy an awesome win?

    By 'calling out' the negative people you're just keeping the cycle going and distracting us all from what is important. (Hint: It's not words on an internet forum by a random poster.)

    And to be fair, I prefer negativity to 'I told you so!'
  18. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan Rookie

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    I think Mayos point is BB, Brady and most of the team should get more respect even when they're struggling, they certainly should get the benefit of the doubt that they know what the problems are and they're working on fixing them. I know football is an emotional sport for players and fans but some of the fans go over the top when things are'nt all rosy.
    I remember some fans leaving the stadium early and some turning the tv off towards the end of the 4th qtr of the Jets game, yes it was frustrating and it was'nt a pretty win but winning in the league isnt easy week to week.
    If you cant support this team, in this era, with BB and Brady all the time 100% you got a problem.
  19. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't buy your premise. The Patriots aren't the Jets. In NJJland, it's about winning seasons and making the playoffs. In NE, it's about Super Bowls. That's what happens with elite teams.

    And, let's be honest. Y'all are acting like what happened was nothing more than the team getting off to a slow start. The team knew it had a problem. It went out and signed a guy who allegedly was shooting at people, because they were desperate for help at cornerback. If the Talib deal isn't made, we could very well be looking at 2011 redux, where it's all offense and prayers.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  21. Joker

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    And to be fair, I prefer negativity to 'I told you so!'

    you must be a real hoot at the tailgate party....
  22. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    If anything, starting out the season perfect leaves you only one place to go. We're hopefully heading towards playing our best ball when it matters right now, though it's not totally realistic to expect improvement from last night overall.
  23. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think that's the point, Deus. Everyone, including the homers, could see that the team at 3-3 had problems, on both sides of the ball. Huge problems on defense with the pass coverage, and not enough pressure. Problems on offense leaving points on the board and not being able to close out games. Brady not quite in sync with his receivers at times. And those problems would have been evident even if the Pats had won those 3 games and been 6-0. No one believed that the Pats were the best team in the NFL week 6. If we had played the Texans at that point, I firmly believe they would have killed us, even in Foxboro. And there's no way that the week 6 team at it's level of play was capable of a Super Bowl run.

    It's more a question of faith in the organization and the team being able to address the problems and "climb the mountain". They're not perfect, and they're fallible. There were holes in the talent that needed to be addressed - I called for the Talib trade in particular earlier than anyone else because I saw getting a press-man CB as the biggest single talent hole on the team - but most of the other issues had to do with youth, inexperience, injuries, and the team needing time to gel. I think it was perfectly fair to criticize the team, or to question whether they would be able to go far if they didn't adddress certain issues. But some of the comments were pretty hostile towards an organization that has shown that they are pretty capable of addressing issues over the course of a season. Not perfect - 2009 is a good example of where the issues couldn't be fixed within the course of the season, and had to be addressed afterwards - but pretty darn good. It's not like we notice things that they're oblivious to, for crissake.

    As for going over the top after games like yesterday's, I personally expect that the Pats will come down to earth, even if they win out. I think this game was the Pats' "dress rehearsal" for the playoffs. It had that kind of intensity. And they passed with flying colors. But it took a huge amount of energy. They may conserve some energy the rest of the way, especially given the injuries. The SF game will be on a short week. Depending on the status of Talib and Dennard we might see more zone coverage against San Francisco, which doesn't have as potent a passing attack. And I wouldn't be surprised to see the Pats go into the Jacksonville and Miami games at 90% effort - enough to get bye, but saving a little energy for the playoffs. I don't expect any more blowouts. And maybe people will start wondering whether the team peaked week 14. BB won't want them to use up all their energy during the regular season, or be too beat up.
  24. fnordcircle

    fnordcircle tfw not enough helmets PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Prefer here doesn't imply like.

    For example I prefer your posts to having my nuts crushed with rocks by shrieking women. It's not that I like your posts, it just beats the alternative in this scenario.
  25. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't get me started about 2011.

    That was embarrassing to go 13-3 and within a Gronkle of a 4th Lombardi.

    Yeah, that year SUCKED.

    :D
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  26. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't knock 'til you try it.
  27. Deus Irae

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    You could end the post right here, and it would be a great and fair post. This is the real stuff, and it's the stuff that matters. The rest is just homers v. realists v. Chicken Littles, and it was just last week that this Patriots team underperformed and looked "exposed" against a lesser team.

    The Patriots are a great second half regular season team, but they certainly don't always get things fixed, as 2009-2011 show pretty clearly. And, again, it's not about making the playoffs for the Patriots or Patriots fans. The Patriots are held to a higher standard, and they should be. They've earned that.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  28. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ahhh.... gotta love the Shmessy man. Nobody else on this board deliberately misses the point quite like you do. [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2012
  29. Dutchmaster617

    Dutchmaster617 Rookie

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    Good mention, the fans who take one win, regular season win and act like the team is perfect...idk what to say but good luck with that.

    We could very well choke to a 9 win team first round, just like 2010 when we got hot and everyone wanted to give them the trophy. Bill has it correct, he doesn't get excited over one win or cry over a loss, either extreme is silly when you watch years of football play out.
  30. PatsFanInVa

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    Houston game was a major turning point for me (although I wasn't among those quoted above.)

    That was a statement for this year's defense. I still don't put them at an "elite defense" level, but they're a good defense with the ability to play lights out in any given game. Keep doing that kind of stuff in the playoffs, and I'll stand corrected once again.

    This looks like a more balanced team than it's looked for a long time.
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