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The mediots going off on "The Welker Situation" thread.(Merged)


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It's revisionist history that Welker isn't a good blocker. Ditto Branch. WR's don't exist to primarily block. Hell, Bill himself is on record that he doesn't care if they do so much as get open and catch the damn ball. You don't have to flatten an opponent at the second level, just occupy him for a couple of seconds. Especially with a RB who has some burst, which Benny lacked and Ridley possesses. The problem here where the running game is concerned remains the launch point, in the trenches. Can't have 12 runs stuffed. Heard Scar on the sidelines imploring them that we had to be able to make interior runs work. The same could be said about interior pass blocking. The more you have to prop that unit up the fewer legit options Brady is left with. Been that way forever. They can work around/adapt to the occasional issues on the edges. Run and pass blocking up the middle remains the unit's and therefore the teams achilles heel. Which is why retaining Waters should have been a prioroty.

Welker suddenly can't block, isn't a team player, must be screwing up somewhere or not showing effort in practice and isn't the receiver Edelman is outside the slot is just creating tortured logic to explain something that is frankly inexplicable. They entered this season for some reason intent on establishing in light of Hernandez versatility and the Lloyd signing whether or not they had Welker's cheap replacement on the roster. I'd personally prefer once the bell rings they focus on winning. Because you never know when you might fall victim to the kind of **** happens that may limit your ability to.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Tweek it's fine, and Lloyd and some depth at WR and TE and a firmer committment to be able to run the ball when we need to - not to mention some dramatic upgrades to a developing defense should have been enough of a tweek for a team who again came up one catch or one stop short of a Lombardi. Instead they appeared out of the gate to be intent on reinventing the wheel.
 
Have to agree with rob on this one. If Ocho and or Price Worked out as outside threats welker would not have been the one in those 2 wide WR sets so automatically his playing time would have been scaled back.

Doesn't mean he was any less of a WR but he just naturally doesn't have the skill set bigger and faster WR's have as they don[t have his skillset.

I think Reiss's point was valid.

Those guys would have altered Branch's snap count, not Welker's. Branch was overused last season because the alternative didn't pan out.
 
Total unmitigated BS on Reiss's part. Ocho would have taken snaps away from no one but Branch had he panned out. In terms of the offense, Welker was "all in" from the start last year. It's clear that the thinking coming into this season was that his role in the offense needed to be scaled back, for whatever reason.

But I do buy the argument that you don't want to be overly dependent on one guy, as the past injuries to Welker and Gronk glaringly pointed out.

This is really just wrong. Welker never played 90% of the snaps before.
He was forced to play as much as he did, not the other way around. It really is not a good plan to have a player such as Welker playing that many snaps, if you have an alternative.
The idea that the best player should be on the field for every snap is naive.
 
And when Welker goes out and catches 16 this weekend, everything will quiet down.
 
It's revisionist history that Welker isn't a good blocker. Ditto Branch. WR's don't exist to primarily block. Hell, Bill himself is on record that he doesn't care if they do so much as get open and catch the damn ball. You don't have to flatten an opponent at the second level, just occupy him for a couple of seconds. Especially with a RB who has some burst, which Benny lacked and Ridley possesses. The problem here where the running game is concerned remains the launch point, in the trenches. Can't have 12 runs stuffed. Heard Scar on the sidelines imploring them that we had to be able to make interior runs work. The same could be said about interior pass blocking. The more you have to prop that unit up the fewer legit options Brady is left with. Been that way forever. They can work around/adapt to the occasional issues on the edges. Run and pass blocking up the middle remains the unit's and therefore the teams achilles heel. Which is why retaining Waters should have been a prioroty.

Welker suddenly can't block, isn't a team player, must be screwing up somewhere or not showing effort in practice and isn't the receiver Edelman is outside the slot is just creating tortured logic to explain something that is frankly inexplicable. They entered this season for some reason intent on establishing in light of Hernandez versatility and the Lloyd signing whether or not they had Welker's cheap replacement on the roster. I'd personally prefer once the bell rings they focus on winning. Because you never know when you might fall victim to the kind of **** happens that may limit your ability to.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. Tweek it's fine, and Lloyd and some depth at WR and TE and a firmer committment to be able to run the ball when we need to - not to mention some dramatic upgrades to a developing defense should have been enough of a tweek for a team who again came up one catch or one stop short of a Lombardi. Instead they appeared out of the gate to be intent on reinventing the wheel.

Your problem is that you think you have insight into some bizarre plan based on what amounts to 3 snaps.
Welker played 63 snaps in this game, which is what he should.
The only support of conspiracy theory revolves around KNOWING what would happen if Hernandez hadn't been injured AND ignoring playing time in week 1.

A reasonable approach would be to recognize that we do not have enough information to draw any conclusion at this point, so arguing about the logic of the plan that you created in your mind and deemed real is foolish.

A somewhat less reasonable approach, is to recognize that limiting Welkers snaps seems sensible, and that out of every formation we run the 12 package would be the one it makes the most sense to rest him in. The discussion of blocking skills being a factor also is supported by the fact that on the 15 plays Welker was not in, 10 were running plays.

An unreasonable approach is "I know he wouldn't have played if Hernandez didn't get hurt, so therefore I am going to conclude that BB has gone off his rocker and benched Welker, just because he wants to teach him a lesson for not taking whatever contract was put in front of him and offering to mow BBs lawn as a thank you"
 
Those guys would have altered Branch's snap count, not Welker's. Branch was overused last season because the alternative didn't pan out.

They were both overused, Welker more than Branch because of that.
Or do you want to show me all of the other seasons Welker played 90% of the snaps, even when we were a 3 WR base?
 
Those guys would have altered Branch's snap count, not Welker's. Branch was overused last season because the alternative didn't pan out.

Welker 2010 70.9% of snaps
Welker 2012 71.1% of snaps

The 89.3% in 2011 is the abnormal one.
 
Welker 2010 70.9% of snaps
Welker 2012 71.1% of snaps

The 89.3% in 2011 is the abnormal one.

Last time I checked, the offense was better in 2011 than the previous two years, by leaps and bounds, even with the now-JAG Branch as WR1 and no running game to speak of. Maybe BOB kept going to the well because, well...it was working?

Curious that was Edelman was barely an afterthought last year if Welker [and Branch for that matter] was so overused. I'm sure the explanation lies in the fact that Edelman's receiving skills improved about 100% over the course of one off-season, and has absolutely nothing to do with Josh McDaniels, or any agenda regarding Welker. :rolleyes:
 
Last time I checked, the offense was better in 2011 than the previous two years, by leaps and bounds, even with the now-JAG Branch as WR1 and no running game to speak of. Maybe BOB kept going to the well because, well...it was working?

Curious that was Edelman was barely an afterthought last year if Welker [and Branch for that matter] was so overused. I'm sure the explanation lies in the fact that Edelman's receiving skills improved about 100% over the course of one off-season, and has absolutely nothing to do with Josh McDaniels, or any agenda regarding Welker. :rolleyes:

It didnt help in the superbowl when our offense was held to a measily 17points..

the only reason Welker was soo overused last year was because we really had no one else..brady had 4 reliable receivers and the rest were JAG's

is it sustainable to have 2 guys playing 90% of the snaps and being responsible for 90% of the offense?

theres a reason Belichick brought in soo many receivers and receiving tight ends in this off-season in camp...he doesnt want to be in the same situation this season

so, you add the extra receivers and the team more committed to the run with Ridley and you see where welker has decreased snaps
 
ya, I would say our offense was better in 2010 than 2011....brady had 5 guys over 500yards in passing and spread the ball around alot more...plus you had BJGE rushing for over 1000yards..
According to Football Outsiders, the New England Patriots offense was more efficient during the 2010 NFL Season than the 2011 NFL Season:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2011 OFFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS
 

The Pats were more balanced in 2010 than 2011. The Pats had a mediocre running game until the end of the season when Ridley started to take carries away from BJGE.
 
The Pats were more balanced in 2010 than 2011. The Pats had a mediocre running game until the end of the season when Ridley started to take carries away from BJGE.
It seems based upon the first two games of the 2012 NFL Season (at least the first half of the Arizona Cardinals game), the New England Patriots coaching staff wishes to revert back more to the 2010 offensive philosophy than the 2011 offensive philosophy.
 
The 2010 overall team did.

But on offensive scoring the 2011 team was better. 426-402

The 2010 was much more efficient.

402 points on 986 plays in 2010
426 points on 1082 plays in 2011
One could argue the 2010 New England Patriots played a tougher schedule.
 
alot of you guys are forgetting how many times last year Brady forced passes to welker/gronk in double coverage and how many tipped passes for interceptions he had due to defenses knowing where/who he was going to go to...

welker/gronk really ended being the main targets because brady had no where else to go....Branch took a step back, BJGE wasnt running well, Ahern was injured and wasnt exactly himself when he came back

Fans can say "dont fix something that works" but in a way, has relying on 2 guys for 90% of the offense really worked?

we didnt win the whole thing last year and a big reason was that issue..

this offense will be much harder to defend when teams dont know who brady is going to go to, and have to fear the Run/long ball...
 
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