The jump from rookie year to second year

[patsinthesnow]

Calm down on Ramon...he said facts,his wording was just a little too harsh IMO.

1. "Mayo had a worse 2nd year than 1st." Fact, although he was injured and he had a sick rookie year.

2. "Maroney hasn't made that leap". Fact entering year 5 and has been below average the whole time. People will attack you for this and call me an idiot for it, but Bruschi and the ticket holders agree.

3. "four rookies top 64 won't make to superbowl" Fact. If the pats get to the superbowl, it'll be because of improvements of last years rookies, and contributions of this years rookies. You cannot expect four rookies to start from day 1,that is laughable.

Rational discussion FTW

 

[blackglass3]

Mayo actually had a worse year last year than in his second year

You want to know why so many people dislike you here? It's comments like this. Mayo banged his knee up, missed like a month of the season, played through the pain after that, and we have TROLLS like you who say "he played worse last year". Gee, think there was a reason for that? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just said to get people irritated.

You post nonsense, knee jerk opinions that are begging for attention. You post things that you know are not going to start any rational discussion, like that gem about free agency a few days ago. That is the definition of "troll"...someone whom is just looking for attention and knows what they say is going to get a bunch of angry replies. If I was Ian I would have booted your ass months ago.

 

[ramon]

You want to know why so many people dislike you here? It's comments like this. Mayo banged his knee up, missed like a month of the season, played through the pain after that, and we have TROLLS like you who say "he played worse last year". Gee, think there was a reason for that? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just said to get people irritated.

You post nonsense, knee jerk opinions that are begging for attention. You post things that you know are not going to start any rational discussion, like that gem about free agency a few days ago. That is the definition of "troll"...someone whom is just looking for attention and knows what they say is going to get a bunch of angry replies. If I was Ian I would have booted your ass months ago.

Blackglass, i just would like to see this not get so personal all the time and just keep it about talking about football. I really do not care if I do not win any popularity contests.

I am pretty sure Ian has the sense to know that different opinions make this board better not worse...

 

[fgssand]

Blackglass, i just would like to see this not get so personal all the time and just keep it about talking about football. I really do not care if I do not win any popularity contests.

I am pretty sure Ian has the sense to know that different opinions make this board better not worse...

yet - you don't admit to having been off the mark with your mayo comment.........

 

[Deus Irae]

Blackglass, i just would like to see this not get so personal all the time and just keep it about talking about football. I really do not care if I do not win any popularity contests.

I am pretty sure Ian has the sense to know that different opinions make this board better not worse...

You're a Jets fan who's trolling the board while posing as a Patriots fan. That doesn't make the board better. It just makes you a troll.

 

[Patspsycho]

It's one of those non-argument arguments. Players that don't make the first leap, don't get to the next hill, simple.

Not exactly.

A lot more players make the first leap, than the second. Making the first, makes you a player. Making the 2nd leap makes you a game-changer.

 

[BostonPatriot]

You want to know why so many people dislike you here? It's comments like this. Mayo banged his knee up, missed like a month of the season, played through the pain after that, and we have TROLLS like you who say "he played worse last year". Gee, think there was a reason for that? It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, it's just said to get people irritated.

You post nonsense, knee jerk opinions that are begging for attention. You post things that you know are not going to start any rational discussion, like that gem about free agency a few days ago. That is the definition of "troll"...someone whom is just looking for attention and knows what they say is going to get a bunch of angry replies. If I was Ian I would have booted your ass months ago.

How do you know that Mayo was playing through lots of pain last year? None of us know the severity of his injury, or if that was the reason he played so poorly last year.

I like Mayo. One question, why did you like him the first year? Because he had a lot of tackles?

 

[BostonPatriot]

yet - you don't admit to having been off the mark with your mayo comment.........

Why is he off the mark?

 

[blackglass3]

How do you know that Mayo was playing through lots of pain last year? None of us know the severity of his injury, or if that was the reason he played so poorly last year.

I like Mayo. One question, why did you like him the first year? Because he had a lot of tackles?

You post nonsense, knee jerk opinions that are begging for attention. You post things that you know are not going to start any rational discussion, like that gem about free agency a few days ago. That is the definition of "troll"...someone whom is just looking for attention and knows what they say is going to get a bunch of angry replies. If I was Ian I would have booted your ass months ago.

Rinse. Repeat.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I really don't understand some of you....we have guys like Ramon who,even if he believes everything he says is still making obvious anti-patriot threads that will no doubt be full of anger and insults towards him but yet his last thread is now up over 200 posts....If you like feeding people like this who some of you call trolls then you are fools yourselves when you look at the broad picture.

The best way to keep people who you consider ridiculous posters and someone who you should ignore is to do exactly that...ignore his wacky thoughts and once they get no attention they move on.

Continuing to respond to Ramon's or anyone who you consider a troll's posts is like telling your husband or wife they need to go on a serious diet and then bringing them home a Big Mac value meal every night of the week.

 

[jsull87]

What should they be doing instead? McDonalds and KFC three times a day? Smoking? Waking up each morning to a shot of Jack?

I mean, hey, i agree there are other things prospects could be doing to help with the realities of the NFL, but getting in excellent shape only helps them, and you are implying it doesn't by stating "it doesn't prepare them for life in the NFL". If you think running wind sprints all winter somehow hurts your chances to recover from a Roy Williams horse collar or helmet to helmet, that would be something.

there is a difference in what you are preparing for at that time. if it is for the combine then you load up your body... then taper towards the combine. this tapering doesn't put you in the best position for the season but gives you your best possible 40 e.t.c Now if you are preparing for a season you just load up and get you fitness up for the 1st trial game and try get you base fitness as high as possible. that is a pretty broad view but that is basically how the 2 are different

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

You post nonsense, knee jerk opinions that are begging for attention. You post things that you know are not going to start any rational discussion, like that gem about free agency a few days ago. That is the definition of "troll"...someone whom is just looking for attention and knows what they say is going to get a bunch of angry replies. If I was Ian I would have booted your ass months ago.

Rinse. Repeat.

I like Mayo. One question, why did you like him the first year? Because he had a lot of tackles?

It's a legitimate question.

 

[RayClay]

Not exactly.

A lot more players make the first leap, than the second. Making the first, makes you a player. Making the 2nd leap makes you a game-changer.

Agreed. No players make the second, without first having made the first, which is why it is a good observation on your part, not an either or argument.

 

[BostonPatriot]

You post nonsense, knee jerk opinions that are begging for attention. You post things that you know are not going to start any rational discussion, like that gem about free agency a few days ago. That is the definition of "troll"...someone whom is just looking for attention and knows what they say is going to get a bunch of angry replies. If I was Ian I would have booted your ass months ago.

Rinse. Repeat.

First, take a step back from the computer and breath, it's all going to be ok,

Second, it sounds like you don't have an answer to a simple question: Why did you like Mayo's rookie year so much? The tackles?

Lastly, why is it so crazy for me to question your claims about Mayo's health last season. You have no clue if the injury was the cause of his poor play. After he came back, there was no proof that he was held back by anything. I like him as a player. I don't know if he's this perenial pro bowler some of you make him out to be. We'll see.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

First, take a step back from the computer and breath, it's all going to be ok,

Second, it sounds like you don't have an answer to a simple question: Why did you like Mayo's rookie year so much? The tackles?

Lastly, why is it so crazy for me to question your claims about Mayo's health last season. You have no clue if the injury was the cause of his poor play. After he came back, there was no proof that he was held back by anything. I like him as a player. I don't know if he's this perenial pro bowler some of you make him out to be. We'll see.

What my wonder is,was Mayo helped out by all of the experienced championship veterans around him in his first year but tailed off a bit after the vets retired/traded and left him practically alone in his second season?

Is he matured enough to take on as a veteran leader now since Harrison,Bruschi and Vrabel are two years removed and Seymour also gone?

Was his injury the biggest issue or was he a little lost without all those savvy guys not there in 2009?

You have to consider those vets really made Mayo's transition to the pros easier than a lot of teams had on thier rosters in dealing with rookie starters....question is will Mayo revert to his rookie year and improve off of that or will we see decline?

 

[BostonPatriot]

What my wonder is,was Mayo helped out by all of the experienced veterans around him in his first year but tailed off a bit after the vets retired/traded and left him practically alone in his second season?

Is he matured enough to take on as a veteran leader now since Harrison,Bruschi and Vrabel are two years removed?

Was his injury the biggest issue or was he a little lost without all those savvy guys not there in 2009?

You have to consider those vets really made Mayo's transition to the pros easier than a lot of teams had....question is will Mayo revert to his rookie year and improve off of that?

I think you hit the nail on the head, here. I think Mayo did benefit from having guys like Bru and Vrabel around.

He has all the tools. He is not a pro bowl caliber player, YET (as some fans want to believe).

 

[Seneschal2]

You have to consider those vets really made Mayo's transition to the pros easier than a lot of teams had on their rosters in dealing with rookie starters....

Lack of veterans on the field and in the locker room, was a huge factor in the Pats inconsistency on defense. This was stated several times throughout the season in this forum. And by veterans, we're not speaking of older players, we're talking about Pats veterans -- big difference.

Mayo is still relatively new to the Pats D, so it remains to be seen whether or not he'll become a veteran leader (on and off the field), although all signs seem to say yes he will in time.

And team chemistry is not overblown as if it doesn't matter -- it's just often mentioned -- for a reason. It's one of the key ingredients needed to win (at least under Belichick). He's the one creating the roster with players who fit their criteria. And he'll hit and miss from time to time, which is no different than the rest of the league.

Wilfork however, is part of the veteran foundation that still exists. His off-season quotes represent a MAJOR step toward improved chemistry:

"You have to weed out the bad seeds."

"If you can't give me what I'm giving you on the field, I don't need you on the field with me. That's how you win. You've got to build trust. Show me that I can count on you."

"If a guy's not giving me 100 percent, I have no problem telling that guy that I don't need him on the field, and I have no problem going to tell Bill that I don't want him on the field. That's how it's going to have to work."

---

We'll have to allow the season to unfold to see who the new leaders will be. Perhaps a returning roster player will step up and make a difference. As far as new additions are concerned, it's unfair to expect a rookie draftee to provide immediate leadership abilities. But it's not unfair to draft those with potential to become one. I'd start with intense, high-effort, non-stop motor players. From these strong intangible-type players -- leaders can be born.

 

[mgteich]

I thought I would take us back to the original post.

We had 9 rookies make the team last year, with 2 more on IR, and 2 more on the Practice Squad. Add the possiblity of contributions (albeit remote) from the injured of the year before: Wheatley and Crable.

That give us a pool of 15 players with a bit of experience.

We should expect solid improvement and increases in quality reps from at least several of these players.

Add contributions from 3-5 of our 2010 rookies, and we have a vastly improved 2010 team, compared to 2009.

Health is not a one-way street. Yes, we have lost Welker. HOWEVER, both Brady and Mayo should be much more productive over the course of the 2010 season than they wee last year.
======================

So why do we seem to think that the glass is almost empty?

A lot is made of the jump from rookie to second year, and this is arguably where the biggest improvement is in most players' careers.

There are a number or reasons, one of which is the rookie wall, the jump from 10-12 games a year to 20-23. Another is getting into football shape. Rookies spend their off-season, not getting into football shape, but fine tuning their bodies specifically to do well in the 40, shuttle, etc. This is smart. Combine numbers afect their draft position and therefore earns for the first 4-5 years of their career, but it doesn't prepare them for life in the NFL.

The third thing is mental, having learned the plays and been on the field in game action. Guys on IR like Crable can learn the plays and get into shape, but until they play, they are going to have a rookie thought process in games. That's why I think BB will cut Crable a lot more slack than we will. (Unless Crable has an attitude problem, in which case he is gone.)

Hidden away in Reiss's piece on Myron Prior is this gem:

You want to get to the point where it’s like tying your shoes as a little kid – you know what you’re doing, you have no questions. I feel like last year, I was being held back because you’re always thinking, and you don’t want to mess up because it’s your first year and you want to make the best impression. This year, I just want to go in knowing it’s written in my head. I felt like that hurt me on a lot of plays I could have made.”

Myron Pryor eyes improvement in '10 - Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

This makes sense, and it makes me hopeful about guys like Prior, Brace, and Chung, even Vollmer and Butler, who I thought did exceptionally well.

 

[fgssand]

NEPATS fans forum definition of troll

"one who has ideas that are not in 100% in agreement with posters on the board who think they own the board"



As usual time to fall back into name calling when a reasoned calm discussion is no longer possible...quite predictable

Recognize anybody???

Troll:

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument