the BEST patriot player in our history ?

[PromisedLand]

By your logic Greg Robinson Randall could be considered for the greatest Patriot ever, but Hannah could not. OK?

Or would it be limited to Brady Bledsoe and Huard?

Huh? How did you get that from what I wrote?

 

[Bostonian1962]

If Bledsoe were still behind Center Hannah would win hands down.

And as great as our HC and ownership are, if Bledsoe were still behind Center Belichick could just as easily be coaching or coordinating elsewhere. And in the wake of the new CBA and given our inabliity to win a championship while paying massive debt service for a new state of the art stadium, the Krafts could easily be shopping the franchise in the $700M range even as we speak.

It's Brady hands down.

My thoughts exactly!!!!!

 

[Dragda]

1) Brady
2) Seymour
3) Hannah
4) Law
5) Tippett
6) Fryer
7) Harrison
8) Dillon
9) C. Martin
10) Morgan

 

[mgteich]

Welcome.

Dillon! Martin, Nance,Cunningham, Tatupu, James, all running backs before Dillon in my eyes.

And I like Dillon alot.

1) Brady
2) Seymour
3) Hannah
4) Law
5) Tippett
6) Fryer
7) Harrison
8) Dillon
9) C. Martin
10) Morgan

 

[mgteich]

We make lists like this every year. I bet if we go back to last year, we'd find Vinitieri on most top ten lists; also Bledsoe and Coates.

 

[RayClay]

Huh? How did you get that from what I wrote?

"Furthermore, none of Hannah's teams won a Super Bowl, and ultimately the success of a player can only be measured by team success in a team game. (Please don't Ernie Banks/Ted Williams me.)"

There's your quote. Randall started on our first super Bowl team.

I said he could be considered. You're saying no player that wasn't on one of the SB teams could even be considered

Personally, I don't think players can control factors such as personnel, coaching, management and ownership so they should be judged on their own merits in arguments like these.

And yes, I do think Ted Williams is the greatest Red Sox player.

 

[RayClay]

Welcome.

Dillon! Martin, Nance,Cunningham, Tatupu, James, all running backs before Dillon in my eyes.

And I like Dillon alot.

Tatupu? I love Mosi but.........

 

[italian pat patriot]

Actually, I got the VHS tapes from my uncle of that game, and the divisional round of the playoffs against the Raiders. I recently transfered them to DVD.

i would love to see that games...

 

[italian pat patriot]

Actually, the Patriots have had some great players in every area.

Their awful seasons were more the product of owner management meltdowns than a slow erosion of talent.

Their original 60's team was very competitive with a great defensive line, solid QB and top RB until he got too fat.

Their mid 70's team might have been their most talented, (hard to compare over eras) but a tough call and a defecting coach did them in.

Their 85 team had an unbelievable run in the playoffs but ran into a buzzsaw in the SB.

Between and after, they had some of the worst teams and most pitiful coaching situations imaginable, coupled with horrible drafts because Sullivan didn't have money to pay top picks.

nice post for sure and petty that we never been able to win a Super Bowl BEFORE 2001...
I respect a lot the Sullivans as they created the Patriots but if they managed
better the team and if they had more money probably now we could have 5 Super Bowls or 6...

anyway, again, i respect Billy Sullivan a lot.

no Pats without him...

 

[italian pat patriot]

what the 'tirade' has to do with hannah's stature as a patriot, i don't know. but it was certainly a real thing. and it should be discussed in the proper context.

very interesting

 

[italian pat patriot]

We make lists like this every year. I bet if we go back to last year, we'd find Vinitieri on most top ten lists; also Bledsoe and Coates.

we will find in the next years lists AV name for sure in one of the 10-15 best players i think

now it is 'too fresh' his departure to Indy...

but i am sure Vinatieri name will be in the future lists

probably also Willie Mc Ginest

just my opinion

 

[PromisedLand]

"Furthermore, none of Hannah's teams won a Super Bowl, and ultimately the success of a player can only be measured by team success in a team game. (Please don't Ernie Banks/Ted Williams me.)"

There's your quote. Randall started on our first super Bowl team.

I said he could be considered. You're saying no player that wasn't on one of the SB teams could even be considered

Personally, I don't think players can control factors such as personnel, coaching, management and ownership so they should be judged on their own merits in arguments like these.

And yes, I do think Ted Williams is the greatest Red Sox player.

But you took one excerpt out of context from what I wrote and twisted it to make your argument, because I also said,

The quarterback position in football is possibly the most important position in all of team sports, with the exception of the goalie in ice hockey or soccer. Tom Brady not only led his team to three Super Bowls victories and was the MVP of two of them, but he raised the level of his play when his team most needed him: the last quarter and the overtime in the 2001 "Snow Bowl", the final drive in Super Bowls 36 and 38 (in which he set records for the most completions), etc. That to me is the true measure of greatness.

Obviously Greg Randall does not meet that standard. If you go back and study my WHOLE statement you will hopefully understand that being on a Super Bowl winning team is NOT the sole criterion for "greatest player". It is being the LEADER of such a team who PULLED the team through the toughest trials from the MOST IMPORTANT POSITION on the team. My argument against Hannah is, despite his greatness, twofold:

1. He didn't lead the team to a Super Bowl and

2. He didn't play a key leadership position

 

[rabthepat]

Steve Grogan hands down...

He is the easy pick. Think to yourself...Dude played with a neck brace. Would not happen today.

 

[italian pat patriot]

He is the easy pick. Think to yourself...Dude played with a neck brace. Would not happen today.

he is in my top 5 but not number 1 for me

anyway i loved Grogan too - i am with you it would not happen today - no doubt

 

[Amnorix]

Yeah, it's either Brady or Hannah, and it's very hard to say which. Hannah was quite possibly THE very best guard ever to play the game, and one of the absolute best offensive linemen. Hell, he was so good his left tackle, Holloway, made it to several pro bowls and then left to go to another team (Raiders) and it was only then that everyone realized Hannah was making him look good...

But Brady is on track to end his career as one of the top QBs of all time.

Let's say, hypothetically, that in 2015 when he retires everyone agrees he's a top 5 QB NFL all-time. Would you take a top 5 QB over the #1 Guard? I think you'd have to...

 

[Amnorix]

we will find in the next years lists AV name for sure in one of the 10-15 best players i think

now it is 'too fresh' his departure to Indy...

but i am sure Vinatieri name will be in the future lists

probably also Willie Mc Ginest

just my opinion

A **kicker** as one of the best players of all time for the Pats when all positions are considered. err.....Maybe he's in the top 25, but you can't really be serious.

You and a buddy are building a team and you're selecting only from Patriots players. Back and forth you go, and you're telling me you'd take a kicker over a stud position player? That seems silly to me.

You can have Vinatieri. I'll take John Smith or whoever and be fine with it.

 

[italian pat patriot]

A **kicker** as one of the best players of all time for the Pats when all positions are considered. err.....Maybe he's in the top 25, but you can't really be serious.

You and a buddy are building a team and you're selecting only from Patriots players. Back and forth you go, and you're telling me you'd take a kicker over a stud position player? That seems silly to me.

You can have Vinatieri. I'll take John Smith or whoever and be fine with it.

probably we will put AV in the top 20 instead to 15 or, as you said, in the top 25; i do not care about this difference but in the future years we will surely have a different consideration about his kicks then today...
and we will consider him in the top 20 of the BEST Patriots

not surely today not tomorrow...

 

[Joe from Oklahoma]

the BEST patriot player in our history?

For me, it's easy.

I'd definitely go with a tie between Brady and Seymour (I think 3-4 defensive end/nose tackle/4-3 defensive tackle is so important that it's tied with QB for most important position on a team).

If he stays healthy, Seymour may turn out to be the greatest defensive lineman in NFL history.

 

[italian pat patriot]

For me, it's easy.

I'd definitely go with a tie between Brady and Seymour (I think 3-4 defensive end/nose tackle/4-3 defensive tackle is so important that it's tied with QB for most important position on a team).

If he stays healthy, Seymour may turn out to be the greatest defensive lineman in NFL history.

i think too Seymour will be one of the top player ever for the NE Patriots too.
i was very very happy he re-signed. as i said many times he is a force.

 

[Joe_n99]

the best PATRIOT

Has got to be Bruce Armstrong...

From wikipedia:
"Bruce Armstrong (born September 7, 1965) was an offensive tackle for the New England Patriots in the National Football League from 1987 to 2000, playing all fourteen seasons with the Patriots. He was drafted in the first round (23rd overall) in the 1987 draft out of University of Louisville, where was a four-year varisity athlete and was named the "Most Outstanding Lineman" following his senior season. 1 He was elected to play in six Pro Bowls, in 1990, 1991, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, and the only offensive linemen to play in more Pro Bowls as a Patriot is Hall-of-Famer John Hannah. Armstrong is one of only 11 Patriots to have been inducted into the Patriots Hall of Fame and one of only seven players to have his number retired. Of 220 possible non-strike games, Armstrong started in 212 (including the last 118 of his career consecutively), making him the single player with the most starts of any Patriot. The only games he missed were in the second half of the 1992, after tearing the medial collateral ligament and both his anterior and posterior cruciate ligaments in his right knee against the Buffalo Bills in November of that year. Though it was feared that the injury would be a career-ending one, Armstrong rebounded and was back the next season."

Day in and day out for 14 years, on mostly crap teams, he was NEVER anything less than a complete, class act, professional! Unheralded, no hype, no fuss, leader on and off the field, and gave 100%(the original full tilt full time)! This IS what Belichek gets credit for, but Armstrong defined as a PATRIOT type player.

Maybe not most valuable, maybe not greatest at his postion, but without a DOUBT the BEST PATRIOT PLAYER ever!

my two cents... You should be ashamed that in 140+ posts none of you even gave him honorable mention!
BRUCE YOU ROCK!:rocker: