The 2013 Prospect Thread

[mayoclinic]

After watching the Texas OSU game last night I was dissapointed in Vaccaro.

He flies around and plays with good energy but didnt maintain gap control in the run game, had an awful personal foul where he slapped an OSU player with the right and finished with the left, he was pretty good in the slot in man coverage, had good instincts but I did not notice him playing the deep part of the field at all. I dont think he's really what the team needs.

Wheaton didnt really get a chance to showcase his skill set because the quarterback play was terrible but he sure does look good with the ball in his hands. Hes a playmaker but wish we could have seen him run some more routes rather than speed sweeps.

Okafor will see his stock rise after last night. The Texas front 4 dominated the OL in one vs one battles. Credit must be given where its due but I think lots of blame needs to be put on the OSU line.

What did you guys think?

I've never been as high on Vaccaro as some. Not on my list. Okafor doesn't do much for me. I'm glad Wheaton didn't get a chance to showcase his skill set - I've seen enough to convince me he's a great fit, and don't want his stock to go any higher.

 

[patsfaninpa]

Safety play is so hard to evaluate off of tv coverage. You really need the all 22. Okafor had a great game. IDK, he appears to have those long arms and build it takes to be a good pass rusher. Strictly a 4-3 defensive end. I think their defensive system was the prob with their run defense. Both de's take off upfield. No dominant tackles to hold the fort. Inexperienced lb's couldn't read a play. Pretty pathetic. Oregon State might have won if someone like me had played qb.....Just kidding. Vaz was ridiculously bad. I'm glad McDonough kept pointing it out. You don't hear college announcers criticize players often.

 

[mackenzie45220]

He did a decent job of run support in the Maaco Bowl. He actually got some props for it from the commentators.

I remember what the announcers said. But they gave him a lot of credit for one play. He struggled with tackling on just about every other play. But, in coverage, he flashes Sam Shields like abilities.

 

[mackenzie45220]

I've never been as high on Vaccaro as some. Not on my list. Okafor doesn't do much for me. I'm glad Wheaton didn't get a chance to showcase his skill set - I've seen enough to convince me he's a great fit, and don't want his stock to go any higher.

Agreed with Vaccaro and Okafor

 

[mayoclinic]

More on Oklahoma OT Lane Johnson:

Johnson eager to show skills at bowl » Sports » The Norman Transcript

Love his athleticism, but he does sound a bit mercenary about his upcoming bowl game:

Left tackle Lane Johnson has made no bones about his intentions. It is a business trip.

“It’s a way for me to make money because I get to showcase my skills against top talent. I think I’ve done that fairly well through the year, but I’m fired up about this opportunity,” he said.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Love his athleticism, but he does sound a bit mercenary about his upcoming bowl game:

Wow, I just watched some film on him for the first time, that is some exceptional athleticism. As far as it being a business trip, I think most players think the same way but just arent as honest about it.

 

[manxman2601]

According to twitter, Damontre Moore (DE) and Logan Ryan (CB) are entering the draft.

Logan Ryan, a Rutgers CB, is obviously relevant to the Pats.

 

[patsfaninpa]

According to twitter, Damontre Moore (DE) and Logan Ryan (CB) are entering the draft.

Logan Ryan, a Rutgers CB, is obviously relevant to the Pats.

Matt Elam's high school coach said he's declaring too. Would love to see him and McCourty at the back end of our secondary. I think you'd see a very big drop in big plays allowed.

 

[manxman2601]

Matt Elam's high school coach said he's declaring too. Would love to see him and McCourty at the back end of our secondary. I think you'd see a very big drop in big plays allowed.

I'm with Mayo. I'm not convinced adding a first round pick to the secondary is desirable (or 2nd round for that matter). The one possible exception for me is David Amerson and that's only because I'm intrigued by his height and play-making ability. I do have other concerns with him.

That's not to say that I don't love watching Matt Elam, I really do, he's a fantastic player although I'm less convinced he's a great fit for the Pats.

There are some really nice later round safety options in this draft: Dexter McCoil, Shamarko Thomas, Rontez Miles, John Boyett, Malcolm Bronson, DJ Swearinger and others.

 

[IllegalContact]

when it comes to safety, I say go after Laron Landry. the attention may not be there for him, and he proved he is beyond his injuries. along with the re-signing of Talib and Welker, this would be the majority of the big money spent by the pats on FA, be it theirs or others. I know there is Vollmer, also, but he's injured half the time, so the pats may need to move beyond him anyway, maybe with a high draft pick.

Talib/Landry/Mccourty/Dennard going into next year sounds good with wilson as the 3rd safety....then downling is a real wildcard....if this boob could only stay healthy, the pats could have an extremely diverse secondary with 3 guys (wilson, mccourty, and dowling) who are positionally diverse.....

all told....I don't hink an upgrade at safety will come through the draft

 

[patsfaninpa]

I'm with Mayo. I'm not convinced adding a first round pick to the secondary is desirable (or 2nd round for that matter). The one possible exception for me is David Amerson and that's only because I'm intrigued by his height and play-making ability. I do have other concerns with him.

That's not to say that I don't love watching Matt Elam, I really do, he's a fantastic player although I'm less convinced he's a great fit for the Pats.

There are some really nice later round safety options in this draft: Dexter McCoil, Shamarko Thomas, Rontez Miles, John Boyett, Malcolm Bronson, DJ Swearinger and others.

It is a deep draft for safeties. I'm just looking at a position we can upgrade. For me it's dt, olb and safety. I hope we re-up Talib. Don't think a dt who starts will be there. My other idea is to move Hightower to Ninko's spot and draft Ogletree. We get faster and more athletic at two perimeter positions. I do like yourself and Mayo's binky Ziggy. But, I think he'll be gone when we pick though. I can see a front four when we go nickel of;
Chandler Jones, Vince Wilfork, Ziggy Ansah and Donta Hightower.

 

[manxman2601]

It is a deep draft for safeties. I'm just looking at a position we can upgrade. For me it's dt, olb and safety. I hope we re-up Talib. Don't think a dt who starts will be there. My other idea is to move Hightower to Ninko's spot and draft Ogletree. We get faster and more athletic at two perimeter positions. I do like yourself and Mayo's binky Ziggy. But, I think he'll be gone when we pick though. I can see a front four when we go nickel of;
Chandler Jones, Vince Wilfork, Ziggy Ansah and Donta Hightower.

I agree that Ziggy will be gone and I'm with you on Ogletree, he's long been one of my favourites.

I think needs will come down to what happens with Welker, Vollner and Talib. If one of those isn't re-signed, then I think that becomes the #1 priority. I'm comfortable with the DL although happy to upgrade with a blue chip player (I only have four in mind for the first round (Hankins, J Williams, Ansah and Carradine depending on medical). I do think we can afford to add to an ageing interior OL although again only with someone worthy of a first round pick (Cooper, Warmack, D Thomas) and I'm intrigued by some of the WR's. Robert Woods and Tavon Austin look like really good Patriot fits, I'm intrigued by the upsides of Cordarrelle Patterson and Justin Hunter and then there's Q Patton, M Wheaton and S Bailey who preferably would be taken in the 2nd or later but just might jump into the late first.

For the first round, assuming we re-sign Talib, Welker and Vollmer, I'm saying: one of (not in order):

J Hankins
Z Ansah
J Cooper
J Williams
T Austin
A Ogletree
R Woods?
D Thomas?

or trade down

 

[mayoclinic]

I agree that Ziggy will be gone and I'm with you on Ogletree, he's long been one of my favourites.

I think needs will come down to what happens with Welker, Vollner and Talib. If one of those isn't re-signed, then I think that becomes the #1 priority. I'm comfortable with the DL although happy to upgrade with a blue chip player (I only have four in mind for the first round (Hankins, J Williams, Ansah and Carradine depending on medical). I do think we can afford to add to an ageing interior OL although again only with someone worthy of a first round pick (Cooper, Warmack, D Thomas) and I'm intrigued by some of the WR's. Robert Woods and Tavon Austin look like really good Patriot fits, I'm intrigued by the upsides of Cordarrelle Patterson and Justin Hunter and then there's Q Patton, M Wheaton and S Bailey who preferably would be taken in the 2nd or later but just might jump into the late first.

For the first round, assuming we re-sign Talib, Welker and Vollmer, I'm saying: one of (not in order):

J Hankins
Z Ansah
J Cooper
J Williams
T Austin
A Ogletree
R Woods?
D Thomas?

or trade down

What are your feelings about Sam Montgomery, who is likely to come out? Some think he will go top 20, others that he's likely to slip to the 20-32 range.

 

[stelfans]

For me is Richardson, Williams, Ansah or Cooper in the 1st. If none of them is there trade down.

 

[mayoclinic]

For me is Richardson, Williams, Ansah or Cooper in the 1st. If none of them is there trade down.

Good list. I'd add Hankins, and possiblty Sam Montgomery. Otherwise trade down. Richardson has major question marks, but a lot of plusses, too.

 

[manxman2601]

What are your feelings about Sam Montgomery, who is likely to come out? Some think he will go top 20, others that he's likely to slip to the 20-32 range.

Well you can't discount a falling talent like Montgomery but I don't see someone who is a pass rusher only ever being a great fit in a BB defense and that's what I think Montgomery is. I might be wrong on that but I'm not sure BB would see Montgomery as much of an upgrade on what Nink, Cunningham and Francis offers in his defense.

Two other points.

1. Have you seen that notice by the LSU strength coach highlighting lazy players? Montgomery was on that list.

http://www.rantsports.com/ncaa-foot...nd-conditioning-coach-posts-his-naughty-list/

2. There's a great deal of flexibility on that Patriots front four now. Cunningham, Francis and Deaderick can all play inside and out. Short of a blue chip player like Ansah, Jesse Williams or Carradine, I think we're set for now although I'd happily add a later round guy like your Brandon Williams or Caraun Reed out of Princeton. Also like Jordan Hill and Omar Hunter too.

 

[manxman2601]

Shawn Zobel says Kyle Van Noy is returning. Good bet he'll be in my first mock for next year.

 

[mayoclinic]

Well you can't discount a falling talent like Montgomery but I don't see someone who is a pass rusher only ever being a great fit in a BB defense and that's what I think Montgomery is. I might be wrong on that but I'm not sure BB would see Montgomery as much of an upgrade on what Nink, Cunningham and Francis offers in his defense.

Two other points.

1. Have you seen that notice by the LSU strength coach highlighting lazy players? Montgomery was on that list.

LSU Football Players Put On Blast By Strength Coach

2. There's a great deal of flexibility on that Patriots front four now. Cunningham, Francis and Deaderick can all play inside and out. Short of a blue chip player like Ansah, Jesse Williams or Carradine, I think we're set for now although I'd happily add a later round guy like your Brandon Williams or Caraun Reed out of Princeton. Also like Jordan Hill and Omar Hunter too.

The thing about Montgomery is that he's bulked up to 260# and has showed considerable ability to shed blockers, and to pursue. He's mainly used as just a pass rusher in LSU's defense, but I think he offers the frame to get bigger and more versatility than he's currently shown, including moving inside. I discount the Rantsports article - Les Miles pretty much stood up for all the guys listed, and Montgomery plays with a lot of effort. It all depends on how the Pats evaluate him, but he's someone that I think is worth taking a serious look at. I agree that if he's only a pass rusher then he doesn't offer enough to take that high. Ansah has more versatility, but Montgomery seems to play with more power to me, and I think he would be a more natural fit on the strongside than in his current weakside position.

 

[manxman2601]

The thing about Montgomery is that he's bulked up to 260# and has showed considerable ability to shed blockers, and to pursue. He's mainly used as just a pass rusher in LSU's defense, but I think he offers the frame to get bigger and more versatility than he's currently shown, including moving inside. I discount the Rantsports article - Les Miles pretty much stood up for all the guys listed, and Montgomery plays with a lot of effort. It all depends on how the Pats evaluate him, but he's someone that I think is worth taking a serious look at. I agree that if he's only a pass rusher then he doesn't offer enough to take that high. Ansah has more versatility, but Montgomery seems to play with more power to me, and I think he would be a more natural fit on the strongside than in his current weakside position.

I'll defer to you on Mongomery - I've pretty much discounted he and Mingo from the start of the year as not great fits so haven't focused on them. What do you think about the suggestion he's lazy though?

 

[TFB*]

Matt Elam's high school coach said he's declaring too. Would love to see him and McCourty at the back end of our secondary. I think you'd see a very big drop in big plays allowed.

I dont like the idea of adding another first round or early second round (if we trade back) DB. I think the last thing we need back there is more youth. I hope we can fill the SS position through FA and use our early picks towards an OT/DT/DE (can never have enough).

In hindsight I wish we had drafted Kendall Reyes or Lavonte David with the Tavon pick which would allow us to use that high pick on a guy like Elam.

With that said, if BB sees the value in taking Elam high, then so be it. The Vollmer situation will really dictate this. Do you think 5 OTs will be off the board before we pick? Those 5 being Joeckel, Fisher, Johnson, Lewan and Mathews.

Im also really intrigued by Logan Ryan who may be a great value pick in the 3rd if he lasts. He looked great in his bowl game and we've had some luck with Rutgers DBs.