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TC observations & Analysis: Tuesday session

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Patspsycho, Aug 9, 2011.

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  1. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Came to TC session late- just in time to see them work on run blocking schemes, saw some IZ, some pulls.

    Then of course that Rookie “hazing” where you have Brady with the hose and all the rookies “slip and slide.” Brady was especially focusing on Mallet- a precursor of things to come?

    Next, individual stations- fundamental drills, agility, WR jam drill, ball security for the RB corp, etc. Then goal line two back play action line-free plays. Saw an interesting package featuring both BJGE and Woodhead.. some ISO, one back. Faulk is in there. Had my first look at the full RB corp. BJGE is quicker, shiftier- it looks like the intense boxing workouts have helped him out big time. The one thing that really surprised me was Morris- he is in top shape. He really took care of himself in the off-season.

    Basedd on what I’ve seen- my opinion is that Vereen will go to IR (he has missed too much of TC), Faulk to PUP, and RB depth will be BJGE, Woodhead, Ridley, Morris (FB + ST) and Faulk. I am pretty sure some of you may complain about Morris, but he is comfortable with being a strict role player at this point, doesn’t complain, and works hard on ST and FB. I am fine with this.

    Plenty of situational football today, much to my delight, which means an in-depth look at the D schemes that everyone is talking about- and what I saw just confirms my initial diagnosis. We simply aren’t going to the 4-3. Plenty of four man fronts for sure, but what many mistake for a 4-3 is in fact a 24 nickel, which again is dictated by personnel. I think the confusing thing here is and what trips most people up is that they don’t realize that the DE’s that line up on the edge aren’t true DE’s (e.g., 280-300 lbs), but rather closer to hybrid DE/OLB in the 3-4 sense of the word (e.g., Cunningham and Moore). However I do recognize that there is a tweak that moves us closer to a 4-3 mode as far as the front line is concerned, and this is simply a reflection of who we’ve picked up in the offseason so far.

    On the offense- I was pleased to see that Ocho Cinco has really progressed- he is so much further now than when I saw him first. He pretty much has the tree down, scheme and cover recognition and this is amazing to me because he comes from a numbers system in Cinny, and for him to adjust to our modified Erhardt-Perkins offense so fast, is mind-boggling to me. To go from numbers to names (e.g., “Zero Flood Slot Hat, 78 Shout Tosser” ). He did have one drop in a crucial RZ play, a case of the “thinksies.”

    Also got my first look at Nate Solder. Never did I ever think there would come someone who would make Mankins look like a little boy, but Solder does. Very happy to report that Solder, in fact, has a nasty streak. He does not ride rushers past Brady as much as clobber them. He takes it very personally. He gave Carter a few nasty chops, and those two got in a minor shoving match, roughhousing- etc. Maneri and Corey Woods took reps at LT and had their hands full with Carter, but Solder had no problems nullifying his speed rushes and landing a few low blows along the way. I don’t have a previous session to compare his progress with, and neither am I an expert on OL technique, but his technique seems to have progressed quite a bit. His bucket steps are pretty agile for such a tall, wide guy.

    More later- have to attend to other things now.
  2. JackBauer

    JackBauer Rookie

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    I hope Vereen doesn't go to IR... had high hopes for him.

    Thanks for the report!
  3. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    disagree about vereen.......RB's are not as dependent on full training camps and can provide more of an immediate impact than just about any position on the field.

    doesn't matter what shape morris is in.....he will get hurt......the pats should only carry one old guy on the roster, and that's faulk.......ridley eliminates the need for morris
  4. WhoaDirty

    WhoaDirty Rookie

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    Do you think Vereen might hit the PUP first to give him a chance, or was that implied by IR?
  5. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I appreciate that post Psycho...I got a lot of information I was looking for...good job
  6. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    How has Medlin looked? If your situation unfolded with Vereen, Id rather a younger pair of legs with one old vet then both of them. In words of the Solderking "young balls" :D bjge and woodhead are proof not to overlook an undrafted back.
  7. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Thanks for the insight! Fascinating stuff, though I really hope you're wrong about Vereen- guys who go on IR as rookies without even making it to the preseason rarely end up having much of an NFL career.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2011
  8. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Having practiced, he is ineligible for the PUP list.
  9. BHSL2

    BHSL2 Rookie

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    Green Bay and Pittsburgh are two teams that come to mind who use the 2-4 Nickel a lot, with the D Ends playing different techniques and switching between 3pt and 2pt stance to give different looks. The great thing is that alignment allows personnel groupings on the field who can adequately play the basic 3-4/4-3. It's just another factor that'll give QBs reason for doubt when they make their LOS checks against our D.
  10. Zachary

    Zachary PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Awesome to hear Solder has a mean streak after being there for only a short period of time.
  11. TheSolderKing

    TheSolderKing Rookie

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    Just as I suspected Solder is a BEAST!!!

    I predicted Vollmer doing extremely well out of Houston. I liked how Vollmer was part of the best offensive line in the country stat wise. I liked how RAW he was.


    Solder much like Vollmer is RAW w/ a very HIGH ceiling. Vollmer has impressed ppl and I promise Solder will do the same:)
  12. Elijah

    Elijah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #11 Jersey

    [​IMG]
  13. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    Good stuff.
  14. NEPats1

    NEPats1 Rookie

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    Thanks for the info!

    So basically the 24 nickel is having a 4 man front of 2 huge DT's and Moore and Cunningham as DE's on the outside and then 2 LBS and 5 DB's?
  15. PatsBoy12

    PatsBoy12 Rookie

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    Thank you for taking the time to write this up for everyone.
  16. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Doesn't hurt to stash Vereen on IR; I know people are impatient to use him, but I think we can squeeze another year out of Morris, on top of which Morris can tutor Ridley. Same with Faulk- neither Faulk or Morris will play beyond this season (I'd be very surprised).

    Next year, we would have a fresh Vereen who has one year in the system.
  17. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Medlin fits right in, doesn't even look like a rookie. Nice burst, soft hands, hard-charging. If Vereen goes to IR, he has a chance to make roster.
  18. Jared

    Jared Rookie

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    I disagree with this part. If a rookie is only lightly injured, and could come back before the middle of the season, you are retarding his growth and progress by putting him on IR unnecessarily. Red shirting does NOT work in the NFL.

    Why put the future of a young player at risk just to get another single year out of Kevin Faulk or Sammy Morris?
  19. Ghost of Ben Dreith

    Ghost of Ben Dreith Rookie

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    Absolutely excellent write up....thanks for taking the time to do this.

    Like most.....I hope you are out to lunch on Vereen, but some very good insights.
  20. The Scrizz

    The Scrizz Rookie

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    I was at Monday practice and the most memorable moment of the day was Medlin getting absolutely blown up by Chung in a blitz drill. Did you see how he looked blocking today? One of the more important things for a Pats RB and he didn't look great at it yesterday.
  21. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Thank you for the in-depth report, it is much appreciated.

    However, I am confused..are you implying that you saw Faulk taking reps? Or did you make a mistake and mean someone else?

    Later on, you say that Faulk will go to PUP...also someone else has posted a thread about an ESPN report stating that Faulk will go to PUP to start the season.
  22. Brettlax3434

    Brettlax3434 Rookie

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    "Rookie RB Shane Vereen has practiced since going down with a hamstring injury a week ago.
    Vereen is losing valuable reps in a competitive backfield. Multiple beat writers noted that the second-rounder was one of the fastest players on the field early in camp. Vereen should have a role this season, but he's not a great bet for more than 10 touches per game."
    Source - Rotoworld.com

    I also just read that Faulk will start the year on the PUP. I expect Vareen and Ridley to both be big parts of the offense this season.


    "Rookie RB Stevan Ridley has "taken advantage of extended reps" in training camp, according to ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss.
    Though Ridley is a power back at 5'11/225, he's shown more agility than expected. He's a candidate for short-yardage and clock-killing work, and he has a talent edge on incumbent BenJarvus Green-Ellis. We're steering clear of the Pats backfield in redraft leagues. "
    Source -Rotoworld.com


    "According to ESPN Boston's Mike Reiss, the Patriots plan to stash Kevin Faulk (ACL surgery) on the reserve/PUP list to start the season.
    It's the only sensible move. Faulk has yet to participate in camp, and the Pats have a crowded house backfield. Staying on the roster via the PUP list is a smart way to keep Faulk in the locker room for his much valued leadership."

    Source - Rotoworld.com
  23. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Sorry- I should have said that he is there but wasn't in uniform. As he has not practiced once, he is on active/PUP
  24. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    A hammy is not a light injury.

    But then again, I have to reiterate that I am an amateur observer and I know nothing about what goes on the inside. I could be wrong on everything, for all I know.
  25. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Gotcha. Thnx for the great analysis Psycho, great stuff!
  26. Patspsycho

    Patspsycho Rookie

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    Yes.. but not necessarily Moore and Cunningham- could be any of the other DE/OLB's.

    Regarding the "four man front," I think that's what is making this confusing as far as all the talk about 4-3/3-4, because the OLB's we have are near the size of what you want in a 4-3 DE (smaller, faster than a 3-4 DE). So the line is blurry there, especially when they are all in three point.
  27. Mogamedogz

    Mogamedogz Rookie

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    Woodhead looked great out there also. Just amazing how quick and elusive he is in the hole.

    Like a jackrabbit trying not to get trampled in a stampede.
  28. EJ Blitz

    EJ Blitz Rookie

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    Solder has a nasty streak? It seems he's taken my advice to start chewing glass. I'm very happy.
  29. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where does Ellis fit? His salary tells me he's going to get significant snaps, which would mean not the same position as Wilfork and Haynesworth. Yet, he's much closer to the size of a Mike Wright than an Eric Moore.
  30. EJ Blitz

    EJ Blitz Rookie

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    Also, I have no idea what guys mean by 2-4 nickel. From a wild guess, is it 2 DTs, with 4 LB/DEs, 2 of which have their hand on the ground?
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