State of the Patriots ~ 03/25/18

[RobertWeathers]

I know philosophically you and I see how the NEP manage the cap the same way so this really isn't a debate on my end.

A couple of potentially clarifying comments.

That is exactly my point. The roster is so well designed that there are no constraints that limit us from signing whoever we want if the value is there. There are no toxic contracts or players that we have to string along for their dead cap hit.

There is a reason BB is among the best GMs since the salary cap came into existence. And unless you have unexpected things happening (e.g. Hernandez murdering people) there is a lot of flexibility to get things done as long as there is value.

The driver for BB's entire philosophy is value and not trying to get everyone as cheap as possible. They would sign a player for 20m APY if they determined internally that his impact would be huge enough to warrant that number.

Compared to some other teams, agree completely on toxic contracts but there are constraints and limits and I think they have them- but are self-imposed as opposed to being hamstrung from crappy decisions made in the past. For example, Tom is consuming $22m in cap space (which is a deal and a 1/2) . I think that is hindering the team a little in extending/signing players as they are proceeding with caution as he is an older player (or maybe Tom wants more $. I don't know). In 2019 will they be in a position to consume a Brandin Cooks $16m AAV deal? I'm willing to bet yes. However what I don't know is how would that impact A Trey Flowers or Shaq Mason extension. What if Tom is still "Tom" in 2018 (which he most likely will be) what does that $$ look like?

At the end of the day is the flexibility Bill values most (which is your point) he never, ever locks himself into a bad long term deal for a shot at one year of glory.

 

[mgteich]

S

I'm always in pursuit of more Depth of Talent everywhere, but my list of Draft needs?

01 ~ Left Tackle.

That is all.

LB: Hightower, Van Noy, Rivers, Flowers., Roberts/Langi

We can all discuss whether an upgrade at LB is a need. I suppose that Rivers and Langi could be considered our "rookie" LB's and that, therefore, there is no need for new blood.
Most of see a need.

 

[Off The Grid]

I certainly wouldn't want to count on it. But while you give'm a higher grade than I do for last year's play, it seems I give'm a higher grade than you for'is potential...Then again: There's good reason to suspect that I suck at evaluating Left Tackles.

I hate the word "potential". He has good size and good feet but I think he is what he is at this point. He can start a few game for you but hes not going to dominate.

Hate the word "potential" all you want, but all you're doing is ignoring the fact that we live in a world of uncertainty and constant change. You're shoving your head in the sand and pretending that everything is static, which is flat out preposterous.

Was Tom Brady "he is what he is" in 2006, when his TD/Interception "ratio" was 24/12? Had he become all that he could possibly be? Or did he have potential?

Had Isaiah Thomas peaked in 2015 when we traded for'm, half way into his 4th year? Or do you suppose that maybe he still had a bit of potential upside?

How about Rob Ninkovich, the erstwhile Saints Long Snapper?

Mike Vrabel? Not good enough to start for the Steelers?

Teddy Bruschi?

Julian Edelman?

James White?

Shall I go on?

Waddle was very effective for the Lions for a couple of years before he got hurt. Me, I'd prefer to see'm as a contingency plan. I listed Left Tackle as the one and only "need" on our shopping list, so I'm not exactly a frothing LaAdrian Waddle fan...but potential is a beautiful thing, my friend. I presume nothing of the future, but let me remind you, if I may: nothing happens that didn't first have the potential to happen.

 

[Off The Grid]

LB: Hightower, Van Noy, Rivers, Flowers., Roberts/Langi

We can all discuss whether an upgrade at LB is a need. I suppose that Rivers and Langi could be considered our "rookie" LB's and that, therefore, there is no need for new blood.
Most of see a need.

No argument from me. I don't see us as having a single pure MidFielder ~ "LineBacker" to you Earthlings ~ on the roster that I'd want to keep. And I love MidFielders.

But Mad Bill likes Dragons and Bandits in lieu of MidFielders...so as far as his kind of Defense is concerned...we're actually looking pretty deep for March.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Hate the word "potential" all you want, but all you're doing is ignoring the fact that we live in a world of uncertainty and constant change. You're shoving your head in the sand and pretending that everything is static, which is flat out preposterous.

Was Tom Brady "he is what he is" in 2006, when his TD/Interception "ratio" was 24/12? Had he become all that he could possibly be? Or did he have potential?

Had Isaiah Thomas peaked in 2015 when we traded for'm, half way into his 4th year? Or do you suppose that maybe he still had a bit of potential upside?

How about Rob Ninkovich, the erstwhile Saints Long Snapper?

Mike Vrabel? Not good enough to start for the Steelers?

Teddy Bruschi?

Julian Edelman?

James White?

Shall I go on?

Waddle was very effective for the Lions for a couple of years before he got hurt. Me, I'd prefer to see'm as a contingency plan. I listed Left Tackle as the one and only "need" on our shopping list, so I'm not exactly a frothing LaAdrian Waddle fan...but potential is a beautiful thing, my friend. I presume nothing of the future, but let me remind you, if I may: nothing happens that didn't first have the potential to happen.

My point is you do not pay a premium for potential. You pay a premium for production once realized at the present and in the future.

 

[Off The Grid]

My point is you do not pay a premium for potential. You pay a premium for production once realized at the present and in the future.

There, we certainly agree.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Stop trolling.

Branch could not even get on the field last year and single-handedly lost us the SB with that. Saying Shelton is a wash is the highest degree of ********.

We have one of the best secondaries in the league and a particularly good safety duo. Sucks that your prejudice against certain types of players makes you competely inept at evaluating them.

Harmon will not face any suspension unless he has been -- unknown to everyone -- already a few steps deep in the NFL substance abuse program. In fact without a positive test not even that is certain.

But please keep repeating this nonsense the same way you kept repeating your fairy tales about comp picks this year.

Tell me again how many points this great secondary gave up to a back up QB and a bunch on no name WR?

 

[BTTA]

Tell me again how many points this great secondary gave up to a back up QB and a bunch on no name WR?

And once again, the 2018 Patriots will not be built based on one game against a very hot NFC team. It will be built to win in the AFC East and against Pittsburgh, Jacksonville, Houston, and whomever else they identify as the iron of the AFC.

Referencing the SB as a roadmap for building the team will only leave you yelling at the sky.

 

[50-yard-line]

Tell me again how many points this great secondary gave up to a back up QB and a bunch on no name WR?

A few more than the GREAT Vikings defense gave up tot he same team two weeks earlier...when the Eagles, having blown out the GREAT Vikings defense took their collective foot off the gas.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

A few more than the GREAT Vikings defense gave up tot he same team two weeks earlier...when the Eagles, having blown out the GREAT Vikings defense took their collective foot off the gas.

The Vikings were missing half of their secondary and playing on the road. Also playing with a back up QB.

Only Tom Brady’s greatness let this team beat the Jaguars, you couldn’t have asked for an easier playoff run than the one they got. Scored 33 points and still lost by 8!

The Eagles punted once! Once! Think about that, granted the Pat’s didn’t punt at all, and the Harmon INT was Foles missing his receiver by so much that when he tipped it in the air, it found the badly beaten Harmon’s hands.

 

[Boomer B]

I like the additions to the D-line. I think in the draft we need to target LB and LT. If we can get a good starting LT and LB we’ll be fine.

And Ray Lewis killed a guy

 

[Clonamery]

State of the Patriots? Easy, Massachusetts.

Seriously, good stuff to chew on as usual. Given the cap space and time of year, I ain’t wetting my pants. Is there another deal to be made before the draft? Idk. I hope so.

When you say, Ray Lewis killed a guy, were you thinking of a certain safety who can’t tackle a dead fish?

 

[mcmurtry86]

Significant hole at LT and no reinforcements at the weakest spot on the roster (LB). Losing their most clutch WR hurts too even if his numbers can be replaced. Hard to call it a success thus far.

Seems like one of those years where Belichick is counting heavily on guys returning from injury rather than adding external talent.

 

[mgteich]

I doubt that you'll find much disagreement with that. Most of us don't think that we are 2 good starters away from being fine.

I like the additions to the D-line. I think in the draft we need to target LB and LT. If we can get a good starting LT and LB we’ll be fine.

 

[luuked]

Only Tom Brady’s greatness let this team beat the Jaguars, you couldn’t have asked for an easier playoff run than the one they got. Scored 33 points and still lost by 8!

You mean the game where the offense and Brady could not move the ball for most of the game and needed our defense to bail them out repeatedly in the face of our own turnovers ?

 

[maineman209]

Significant hole at LT and no reinforcements at the weakest spot on the roster (LB). Losing their most clutch WR hurts too even if his numbers can be replaced. Hard to call it a success thus far.

Seems like one of those years where Belichick is counting heavily on guys returning from injury rather than adding external talent.

Seems to me that the Pats have done all that can reasonably be expected of them to address LT under the circumstances. We now just have to wait for the draft and to see what else may develop on that front.

There's still time for BB to acquire an NFL-experienced LB (or two) in preparation for the potential addition of a high-round draftee.

Even without Amendola, there's still quite a bit of proven production and young potential among the WRs already on the roster.

The foundation - which does include a reasonable expectation that players returning from injury will contribute something - is largely complete 10 days into FA and a month before the draft. I'd call that a success.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Double WR backfield set. Cooks and Patterson will rush for 300 yards.

 

[maineman209]

Double WR backfield set. Cooks and Patterson will rush for 300 yards.

40 times:

Cooks, 4.33 (age 24)
Dorsett, 4.33 (age 25)
McCarron, 4.41 (age 24)
Patterson, 4.42 (age 27)
Mitchell, 4.45 (age 24)

 

[Off The Grid]

When you say, Ray Lewis killed a guy, were you thinking of a certain safety who can’t tackle a dead fish?

Yes, by God. Yes.

 

[NG Pats Fan]

40 times:

Cooks, 4.33 (age 24)
Dorsett, 4.33 (age 25)
McCarron, 4.41 (age 24)
Patterson, 4.42 (age 27)
Mitchell, 4.45 (age 24)

About time we added some serious speed