Some Stats that will make you go...hmmm

[yukon cornelius]

I agree the argument is circular and we can say the same about every QB who has ever won a superbowl. Manning benefited twice by his defense.

Football is a team sport and no one player can single handedly win a game. We wouldn't have won our superbowls if Brady didn't get the team in FG range or score 4 TDs to put Pats in a position to win in 2014 despite his 2 picks. Butler saved the day but Brady did his part to put us give us the lead towards the end.

and that is it in a nutshell


everyone must do their job to get it done

 

[Ring 6]

Your selective use of statistics to make your point is basically unfair. While he was QB with the Pats Bledsoe threw 191 TD passes vs. 136 picks, and for the offenses of THAT era, that was a very good TD/pick ratio. And if you take his stats after his first 3 years in the and entering his so called "prime years" it gets better at 147-78.

I used his career. You are being selective.
Where did you get 191/136?
It was actually 166/138 in New England which is not largely different from 251/206, in fact it is actually worse. TD/INT in NE 1.203 Buff and Dallas (85/68)1.25

I have no idea where 147/78 comes from. after his first 3 years he was 198/148. If you don't count Dallas he was 168/123. There is no 147/78. He did throw 78 pick from 96-00 but only 111 TDs, not 147.

But I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you. You are entitled to your opinion. YOU say that Bledsoe was never anything more than a 10-15 best QB in the league, when most anyone else of that era would disagree with you and there were several years when he WAS a top 5 QB.

You shouldn't get into a pissing contest with me if you don't read what I say. I said in his average years he was an average QB. That does not equal he was never anything more than a 10-15 best. In his best years, by definition, he was better than in his average years.

In 1996 he was 3rd in passing yardage and 3rd in TD's. In 1997 he was 4th in passing yardage and 3rd in TD. In 1998 he was 6th in passing yardage and 7th in TD's. See I can use stats too.

He did all this while changing offensive systems around every 3 years, and and on teams that had talented starters, but never had any depth, and suffered when injuries occurred. But again you can think what you want. But I've said my piece and you stated yours. Let's get on to the next topic.

So now he was good because you can make excuses for poor play?

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

3 memorable Bledsoe moments for me:

1) His shootout with Dan Marino where they each threw for 450+ yards (though my memory might be shaky on that) in an epic shootout that was something not typically witnessed prior to that time.

2)Him playing with a broken (throwing) index finger and still delivering

3) His rookie season, I don't recall the game, but it was an indication of his toughness from day 1. The announcer said, "You have to be 21 years old to get up after a hit like that"

 

[RobertWeathers]

3 memorable Bledsoe moments for me:

1) His shootout with Dan Marino where they each threw for 450+ yards (though my memory might be shaky on that) in an epic shootout that was something not typically witnessed prior to that time.

That game was incredible. Incredibly entertaining. Ray Crittenden made the catch of a lifetime.

2)Him playing with a broken (throwing) index finger and still delivering

Yep that was Monday night vs MIA. He busted it on top of a lineman's helmet. Last second TD to Shawn Jefferson.

3) His rookie season, I don't recall the game, but it was an indication of his toughness from day 1. The announcer said, "You have to be 21 years old to get up after a hit like that"

Not sure.

I think my #1 Drew moment was the TD to Patten vs Pitt in the AFCCG. I wanted Drew to succeed so badly and his play over the past few years drove me to drink (well....I did that anyway) . I remember he was SO excited after the pass. I was happy for him.

At that moment I was finally at peace with who Drew Bledsoe was. Winning that (and Tom in the Snow Bowl) game made it possible.

 

[jimnance]

Havent read entire thread but heres what I think Bledsoes legacy is as a Patriot: He came at a time when the Patriots had been at their absolute most-embarrassing worst-the early 90's. The pats were NEVER a laughingstock until then-they had very strong playoff-caliber teams for parts of the 60's,70's and 80's. In 1976 they had the best team in the nfl and were screwed out of what would have been their 1st Super Bowl Championship(and it would have been a blowout). Overall, from 1960-mid 80's, they were mostly average-to-good, occasionally bad. But the early 90's were jet-like bad(ouch). So Drew helped, along with Parcells, Cmart and others, to lift us out of those dark days and make the Pats respectable again. He was overall a good, not great qb. Yes, like Grogan and Brady, he was tough as nails.
Dont want to delve into the other argument too much-how important wins are to a qbs legacy-lets just say they are not the be-all end-all BY THEMSELVES ALONE-but they are important. I know they are FAR more important than yards. But decision-making, accuracy and leadership are right there at the top along with wins. You cant really pick just one qb stat as the most importatnt-its the gestalt that counts.Td-int ratio is extremely importtant. If you put all of it together, theres only 2 qbs in the GOAT discussion; Brady and Montana. Period. Nobody else remotely close. Marino was incredibly gifted as a passer-but Brady blows him away in many more importatnt categories. We all believe TB12 is the GOAT-as do many others knowledgable about nfl history-but i believe that even the Montana holdouts-will be convinced its TB12 before he retires. Matter of fact a lot of them said as much after the LAST SB win.

 

[SalemPats]

Not really accurate.

8-8 in 83 missed playoffs
9-7 in 84 missed playoffs
11-5 in 85 lost SB
11-5 in 86 lost in divisionals
8-7 in 87 missed playoffs
9-7 in 88 missed playoffs

56 wins

10-6 in 94 lost in WC
6-10 in 95 missed playoffs
11-5 in 96 lost SB
10-6 in 97 lost in divisionals
9-7 in 98 lost WC
8-8 in 99 missed playoffs

54 wins

we made the playoffs 4 times vs 2.

Neither era were we perennial contendors, but that stretch from '88 to 94 was bad and this was the first time we had a 'franchise' QB. I like Drew, I don't love him, but he had an ok career and by all accounts was someone who represented the Patriots with pride. There is no comparison with TB

 

[RobertWeathers]

we made the playoffs 4 times vs 2.

Neither era were we perennial contendors, but that stretch from '88 to 94 was bad and this was the first time we had a 'franchise' QB. I like Drew, I don't love him, but he had an ok career and by all accounts was someone who represented the Patriots with pride. There is no comparison with TB

89-92 was sheer hell.

I dare anyone who *****es about the Patriots to endure those 4 years.

 

[SalemPats]

89-92 was sheer hell.

I dare anyone who *****es about the Patriots to endure those 4 years.

The 80s and early 90s the division was dominated by the Bills and Dolphins. Our only chance was to get the wildcard. We were like what the Jets and Dolphins are now

 

[RobertWeathers]

The 80s and early 90s the division was dominated by the Bills and Dolphins. Our only chance was to get the wildcard. We were like what the Jets and Dolphins are now

It was worse. Much, much worse.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It was worse. Much, much worse.

Exactly.

89: 5-11
90: 1-15
91: 6-10
92: 2-14

 

[Patjew]

No, his name was Grogan

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[fnordcircle]

If you said to someone "hey in 30 years the Lions will have 2 decades of unparalleled success" they'd be like "you know, good for them, that fanbase has endured a lot."

That's what it would be like if you went back in time to the pre Drew/Parcells/Kraft era and said the same thing about the Pats. We were an embarrassment on and off the field.

 

[XLIX]

The Belichick-led Patriots went from 5-13 under Drew Bledsoe to a dynasty under Tom Brady.

Despite the fact the complete turnaround happened instantly once Brady took over, some people think this is just a coincidence.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

Yep that was Monday night vs MIA. He busted it on top of a lineman's helmet. Last second TD to Shawn Jefferson.

Your game time memory is so much better than mine . Didn't he also make the next start?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Exactly.

89: 5-11
90: 1-15
91: 6-10
92: 2-14

It was that and then some..

In 89 their 3 best defensive players went down on the last preseason game. Season over.

Ray got fired. Rod Rust...ugh

Fryar and Dykes got into it.

Then they trade Rocket Ismail for two defensive players. THEY NEEDED skill players!

Then the Lisa Olsen thing.

Drafting Eugene Chung.

Orthwein rumors were surfacing on him wanting to move the team.

**** MacPherson gets sick.

TV Blackouts

Just dark, dark, dark days.

 

[Tony2046]

That is 100% wrong.
The 'performance' that matters is the plays made that determine wins and losses. QBs are the central piece of NFL teams now, and the primary reason they win or lose.
80% of QB play can be done similarly by any competent QB. What separates a Brady who is the greatest winner in NFL history, from a Bledsoe, who was thoroughly average are the games, drives, and plays that separate a champion from a guy with similar stats.

Or the 3 point difference in a Super Bow.

 

[Tony2046]

I think you might be confused with who I was referring to in the post. I hated Dan Marino- not Drew. For me, Drew was like that guy you meet your freshman year in college and were really good friends but by senior year you are still kinda friends but he annoys you with dumb things he does and you kinda outgrew him.

I think we can agree Drew was a very good, but flawed QB.

But what if that "college friend" started making wine?

 

[RobertWeathers]

But what if that "college friend" started making wine?

That "friend" always had great pot. I wasn't as sophisticated as I am now....

 

[Ring 6]

If you said to someone "hey in 30 years the Lions will have 2 decades of unparalleled success" they'd be like "you know, good for them, that fanbase has endured a lot."

That's what it would be like if you went back in time to the pre Drew/Parcells/Kraft era and said the same thing about the Pats. We were an embarrassment on and off the field.

The years from 74-88 were hardly an embarrassment.
I'm not old enough to remember before that but in the last 42 years there was only one 4 year run if embarrassing and given 89 was a so-so team riddled with injury it's arguably just 3

 

[fnordcircle]

The years from 74-88 were hardly an embarrassment.
I'm not old enough to remember before that but in the last 42 years there was only one 4 year run if embarrassing and given 89 was a so-so team riddled with injury it's arguably just 3

Even the good stuff that happened during those times often lead to more bad stuff. Phantom blow to the helmet, getting humiliated in SBXX, the drug scandal, Fryar's knife-wielding wife.