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Schefter: Cassel (and Vrabel) to Chiefs for 2009 2nd-rounder [merged]


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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Perhaps 35 over 5 for Vilfork...You could do 40 even. But No way near 100/7

Ben
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

This just further proves that Pioli is the greatest GM in league history.

He got:
1600-yard back Corey Dillon
All-time season-TD record receiver Randy Moss
Starting QB Matt Cassel
Three-time Super Bowl winning OLB Mike Vrabel

For two seconds and a fourth.
That's truly impressive.

I think Pioli got tremendous value with this deal, just as he did with the Moss and Dillon deals.
Cassel should do well as the long-term starter in KC.
The defense should improve with a veteran no BS guy like Vrabel.

I hope the pick works well for the Pats.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I think people who think Vrabel should have made it a 1st... need to check the basic principle that SP knew the New England set up, so moving Vrabel would have been known to him, so he had such good negotiation.

Usually teams suffer from assymetric information when dealing with other teams but here they knew every card and hence instead of finding a "mug" to give us a high 1st we got a truer value.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Perhaps 35 over 5 for Vilfork...You could do 40 even. But No way near 100/7

Ben

but haynesworth set the market like schaub did so pats have to pay him more no ? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Dont think so mate, wed be an idiot to overpay Wilfork, anyone is replacable except Numbers 81 and 12

Ben
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Three words: Public Relations Nightmare.

This will resound in the NFL till Cassel's career is over or the Pats lock up another Super Bowl with the help of the 34th pick. Now I know how Raider fans felt when the Pats got Moss for almost nothing.

And don't get me started on losing Vrabel. His best days were behind him, but to package him up with Cassel for a SECOND round pick would make me sore if I were him.

And yes... It is a second round pick. Not a low first as some want to make it sound. Get over that.


Unless you have factual knowledge that another team was willing to offer more than #34 and Cassel was willing to sign with them, then shut the f--- up.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Unless you have factual knowledge that another team was willing to offer more than #34 and Cassel was willing to sign with them, then shut the f--- up.

damn why are you so angry
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Dont think so mate, wed be an idiot to overpay Wilfork, anyone is replacable except Numbers 81 and 12

Ben

33, 83, and 75 are all more irreplaceable than 81.

Oh wait, that's Wilfork's number.

This doesn't hurt that bad. Cassel gets a chance to show what he can do for the Chiefs, the Patriots get a 2nd. I think it's possible they parlay this into Julius Peppers, or just use the cap space to make a splash with a couple names like Houshmandzadeh and Lewis while retaining Wilfork, something I'd be perfectly happy with. 6 picks in the first 100 gives lots of room to maneuver in the draft as well as a good chance to inject stud-caliber talent.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Well I've woken up this morning to find a flurry of commentary on the Cassel and Vrabel trades. Vrabel has been one of my favourite Patriots players and Cassel was simply extraordinary the second half of this season and I wish them both success at the Chiefs.

During the season, I do recall many people calling for Vrabel's head due to a decrease in his production and a lost step in his speed. He was due for free agency next season, with a cap saving for the Pats. Cassel was a 7th round draft pick. His value is that of a 2nd round draft pick as it stands.

I'm failing to see the doom and gloom prognostications, as we've just cleared up roster spots and a huge amount of cash to go after potential free agents? Could we have gotten more compensation.. I don't know. What I know is that I am sure the brains trust have a plan and have had one for quite some time.

Let's see how this plays out before the Patriots 2009 season eulogy is written.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

kurtinelson

Unless you have factual knowledge that another team was willing to offer more than #34 and Cassel was willing to sign with them, then shut the f--- up.


damn why are you so angry

My sentiments exactly. I'm ashamed to think we route for the same team. To clarify, I made no mention of there being a better deal on the table. I am only forecasting the fall out of the situation.

This may very well (as much as I hope not) be one of those moves that is remembered in sports history... like the Hershel Walker trade, every team that passed on Jerry Rice, Jeff Bagwell to the Astros, Moss to the Patriots, etc.

Calm down though. Save it for game day!
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Two questions I have:

1) Why did we only get one pick for two players? Matt oughta be worth a second rounder on his own, right?

2) Do training camps usually have sessions on Saturday? I was thinking I'd drive over to River Falls this summer to see Matt and Mike with their new team, but long story short I only have two days of vacation until November so I probably can't go on a weekday. :(
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

For everyones information I just bought a Vrabel jersey on patriots.com for $25. Nice keepshake for the 3 superbowls he helped bring the Pats. :D
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

This may very well (as much as I hope not) be one of those moves that is remembered in sports history... like the Hershel Walker trade, every team that passed on Jerry Rice, Jeff Bagwell to the Astros, Moss to the Patriots, etc.

Or, being that the Patriots have the GOAT QB starting for them right now, it might be forgotten soon after. Even if Cassel has a good career, he's not going to be Tom Brady. Were you bugging out like this after the Bledsoe trade? How'd that work out?

Pioli clearly valued Cassel very highly, but his offer was only a 2nd, and that offer included Vrabel coming to the Chiefs (which may have saved Vrabel from being cut for cap reasons). We have to assume the Chiefs put the best deal on the table. Obviously NFL GMs did not value Cassel as highly as Patsfans.com did.

I suspect the blow will be lessened somewhat by potential signings of guys like Bodden, Houshmandzadeh, or Lewis. Maybe Jason Taylor will be available. Maybe they'll deal for Peppers or Tomlinson. Maybe they'll wheel and deal on draft day and pick up some studs.

Losing Cassel doesn't hurt the team. Consider that 2nd rounder free money.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Sorry for the rage.

i agree i wanted more. however, we could potentially pick 3 times in the first round.

we have our own. we could trade 2 of our seconds for a first. we could trade our earliest second and a fourth or third.

we have so many options. we probably should have gotten another 3rd or 4th, but whatever. cant win every trade
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

True , we have enough draft "points" to acquire any pick we want
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Two questions I have:

1) Why did we only get one pick for two players? Matt oughta be worth a second rounder on his own, right?

I honestly think that with Vrabel's cap hit, the decision was made to move on with out him. He was coming off the books one way or another. BB did a classy thing and threw him in to sweeten the deal and get it done. I'm sure Pioli knew that, but if there is one thing KC needs as much as a QB is a locker-room veteran for all his young guys.

It's win-win(-win). Pioli gets 2 guys he can use, we get a high 2nd for a guy we all wanted to cut 6 months ago and 18+M of cap relief, and Vrabel is spared the humiliation of getting axed from a team his has put so much of his heart an soul into.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I honestly think that with Vrabel's cap hit, the decision was made to move on with out him. He was coming of the books one way or another. BB did a classy thing and threw him in to sweeten the deal and get it done. I'm sure Pioli knew that, but it there is one thing KC needs as much as a QB is a locker-room veteran for all his young guys.

It's win-win(-win). Pioli gets 2 guys he can use, we get a high 2nd for a guy we all wanted to cut 6 months ago and 18+M of cap relief, and Vrabel is spared the humiliation of getting axed from a team his has put so much of his heart an soul into.

That makes sense. Great post! If we still had the "karma" thing you'd definitely get a +1.

By that reasoning, I'm guessing Vrabel would not have been thrown in if we were dealing with another AFC East team.
 
Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

Or, being that the Patriots have the GOAT QB starting for them right now, it might be forgotten soon after. Even if Cassel has a good career, he's not going to be Tom Brady. Were you bugging out like this after the Bledsoe trade? How'd that work out?

Pioli clearly valued Cassel very highly, but his offer was only a 2nd, and that offer included Vrabel coming to the Chiefs (which may have saved Vrabel from being cut for cap reasons). We have to assume the Chiefs put the best deal on the table. Obviously NFL GMs did not value Cassel as highly as Patsfans.com did.

I suspect the blow will be lessened somewhat by potential signings of guys like Bodden, Houshmandzadeh, or Lewis. Maybe Jason Taylor will be available. Maybe they'll deal for Peppers or Tomlinson. Maybe they'll wheel and deal on draft day and pick up some studs.

Losing Cassel doesn't hurt the team. Consider that 2nd rounder free money.

I was actually on the Brady side of the aisle when it came to trading Bledsoe. Despite being a huge fan of Drew, it seemed clear that Drew had reached his ceiling and he just couldn't do any more for the team. Great guy... great memories of him in a Pats uniform, but Brady had "it".

If I had to compare anything, it would be losing Vrabel to losing Bledsoe. Both were great Patriots and hard to see leave, but somewhat expendable for a team that is constantly trying to stay competitive.

And in fact my issues have nothing to do with the Patriots having Brady at QB or not. Obviously value is determined by the market and I felt the market should had been better when you consider there are few free agent QBs considered franchise guys and maybe one legitimate franchise guy in the draft.

Don't misunderstand...

I'm happy for Cassel, Pioli and KC.

I'm happy the Pats have 17 mil to play with in free agency.

but to my earlier point, I venture to guess that the media and history will remember what Cassel goes on to do in his career and connect that to what KC had to part with.

EXAMPLE:

In 1997 the Seattle Mariners traded Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek to the Bo Sox for Heathcliff Slocumb. Seattle was a closer away from being, what they thought, was a World Series champion. They already had Dan Wilson at catcher and a decent pitching staff. To this day, Mariner fans won't let it go. At the time, it made sense to seal up the bullpen/closer position. Now all that is remembered is the fact that they gave up Lowe and Varitek for some closer from Boston. Meanwhile both have gone on to win Championships and it is remembered that Seattle was on the brink of getting past the Yankees in the AL.
 
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Re: Adam Sch. reports : Matt Cassel to Chiefs ! [merged]

I honestly think that with Vrabel's cap hit, the decision was made to move on with out him. He was coming off the books one way or another. BB did a classy thing and threw him in to sweeten the deal and get it done. I'm sure Pioli knew that, but if there is one thing KC needs as much as a QB is a locker-room veteran for all his young guys.

It's win-win(-win). Pioli gets 2 guys he can use, we get a high 2nd for a guy we all wanted to cut 6 months ago and 18+M of cap relief, and Vrabel is spared the humiliation of getting axed from a team his has put so much of his heart an soul into.

Not ALL of us wanted to cut Cassel. Around 25% of us who really follow BB's moves closely knew that BB would keep Cassie and CUT Gutz. Sadly, Reiss was not one of the 25%. Maybe he'd been reading Patsfans too much. :)

Me, I'm Jacked & Pumped we have a high 2nd for Mattie and needed salary cap relief to re-sign core players and FAs.

My sympathies for the cretin in my sig.
 
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